movieplayer rate


    Feb 03 2006 | 11:35 am
    Hi to the Jitter forum, this is my first letter and I'm working on my first Jitter patch.
    I apologize for my english and Jitter vocabulary, I not a "fluent member " yet
    The aim is to project huge images, one is 1280 x 640, processed by a Dual G5
    the other is a double 1024x768 screen, processed by a new quad G5, projected using the two DVI/VGA output of the video card
    this is piloted by a PB via ethernet
    I made my first Jitter/OGL desktable to pilot the videos, mapped on several OGL objets so that i can have different ways to put it on stage.
    My guess was basicly to map video on 2 videoplanes overlayed, to fade and sometimes mix different inputs using OGL, and then play with the planes or add other objects. Play mainly with shapes, position fixed background images and masks.
    I thought it was reasonnable for a first project but...
    It works, but the play rate is frightenning !
    First of all, can anyone explain why the play rate is so different when you play a film on QT and via Jitter ? (just read it on a VP)
    I built my images on after effects and calculate it in PJpeg 75, all that is perfectly red by Qt even through a Ext HD FW400.
    I knew it would be different trough Jitter but the gap is huge ! Yes the CPU has to decompress the image but just like QT does I guess...
    How can I make it better ? I used a get movie dim to automatically size the jit.qt.movie
    I was planning to have the A film on the hard dik and the B film on an external FW800 disk, so that i never call 2 films on the same disk, but nethertheless, the rate is so low (9 ips for my first 1280 x 1024 video, getting lower and lower....), despite asking nothing else than just playing one, that I was hopeless yesterday evening!
    how is loadram working ? shall I use it ? It seems that Jitter is working with my film even if i don't play it (rate 0 ?), and filling the ram until nothing is possible anymore !!!! (my videosequences can be several Go size.) How much ram do I need ?
    (By the way, how can i play the same film on 2 Vplanes, with a one second delay between oneanother ?)
    Is there a way to pilot the rotation of an OGL object with a speed rotation instead of an angle ? The pb i have is that when I send my rotation informations (which means a lot of informations a sec, generated by the tabledesk metro), it is briefly interrupted as soon as i ask something else to my desktable, such as loading a new film for the next sequence ....
    If I calculate movies with different fps to use lowrate when it is possible (10 ips perhaps), and higher rate when it is necessary (20 ips would be probably enough), how do I configure the metro ?
    I knew it would be difficult, so I planed also to work with fix Psd image as backgrounds, to free the cpu for a while and prepare the following sequence. But simply translating a plane with an image was not smooth a all ! how is loadram working with my fixed Psd images ? I sent a bang on the image only if i work on it, (if I send an offset, or move a mask.... but i didn't reach this step !) Those fixed images are mapped on a plane like the videos, using matrix with @auto
    Will I allways have a rate brakedown if I load for exemple the next image of the next sequence, while playing a video ?
    What about metro or qmetro in my case, overdrive or not .....
    This is quite a hurry, thank you very much to anyone who could give a hand,
    Erik

    • Feb 03 2006 | 5:40 pm
      > Hi to the Jitter forum, this is my first letter and I'm working on
      > my first Jitter patch.
      so welcome; you seem to have made a very fast start.. all these
      problems within the first patch... wow! ;-)
      before i deal with the content of your post - in my opinion, messages
      to the list (or forum) are similar to max patches - sometimes if you
      have a big problem, it's better to break it into several smaller ones.
      in this one post you have enough questions to start 10 threads, and
      starting 10 thread actually would be more fruitful i guess,
      especially if they deal with different problems...
      i'll just pick a few :-)
      >
      > The aim is to project huge images, one is 1280 x 640, processed by
      > a Dual G5
      > the other is a double 1024x768 screen, processed by a new quad G5,
      > projected using the two DVI/VGA output of the video card
      > this is piloted by a PB via ethernet
      >
      > I made my first Jitter/OGL desktable to pilot the videos,
      what exactly do you mean with 'pilot'?
      >
      > I thought it was reasonnable for a first project but...
      well, if you are patient..;-)
      but seriously, seems like a heavy start to me, directly diving in
      openGL without heaving dealt with matrixes etc first.. but on the
      other hand, if you have max experience already, it should be ok
      > It works, but the play rate is frightenning !
      >
      > First of all, can anyone explain why the play rate is so different
      > when you play a film on QT and via Jitter ? (just read it on a VP)
      that depends.
      at this point, an example patch would be very helpful...
      did you try the directly-to-window-method demonstrated in the
      jit.q.tmovie help patch? is that faster?
      > I built my images on after effects and calculate it in PJpeg 75,
      > all that is perfectly red by Qt even through a Ext HD FW400.
      sounds ok; firewire hd could be the bottleneck. did you try to play
      (maybe a portion) from internal HD?
      > I knew it would be different trough Jitter but the gap is huge !
      > Yes the CPU has to decompress the image but just like QT does I
      > guess...
      > How can I make it better ?
      use colormode uyvy??
      btw, do you use any jit.pwindows in your patch? using 'onscreen' and
      'doublebuffer' can make a BIG difference...
      > I used a get movie dim to automatically size the jit.qt.movie
      > I was planning to have the A film on the hard dik and the B film on
      > an external FW800 disk, so that i never call 2 films on the same
      > disk, but nethertheless, the rate is so low (9 ips for my first
      > 1280 x 1024 video, getting lower and lower....), despite asking
      > nothing else than just playing one, that I was hopeless yesterday
      > evening!
      should work faster as far as i know...
      >
      > how is loadram working ? shall I use it ?
      hmmm, normaly: yes, but with files of these dimensions (&longer than
      a few seconds) i would say no, unless you like crashes... ;-)
      > It seems that Jitter is working with my film even if i don't play
      > it (rate 0 ?), and filling the ram until nothing is possible
      > anymore !!!! (my videosequences can be several Go size.) How much
      > ram do I need ?
      several Gb's in that case ;-)
      but surely more than the original compressed files.
      > (By the way, how can i play the same film on 2 Vplanes, with a one
      > second delay between oneanother ?)
      by buffering the image in a jit.matrixset for example..
      [the next few questions i omit; maybe they get a bigger chance of
      getting answered in a different thread]
      > What about metro or qmetro in my case,
      definitely qmetro!!
      the patch getting slower and slower sounds like backlogging or so to
      me, but i'm not an expert..
      > overdrive or not .....
      that's something that i also try to figure out at the moment...
      >
      > This is quite a hurry, thank you very much to anyone who could give
      > a hand,
      good luck,
      jan klug
    • Feb 06 2006 | 2:40 pm
      Thank you very much Jan,
      I will take more time tomorow to tell more,
      No, I'm not a Max worker eather, I just had a two days briefing on Max and Jitter few mounths ago. I'm working on StageImageProject for a creation with the IRCAM in PAris, no one there nows about image and I feel a bit lonely in Paris in this activity ! It's good to read the forum, and receive answers.
      It's my first patch but I'm working on it intensively since 2 months ! By "pilot" I mean that I first made a big patch (an videodesk table like a light-programming table for shows) to be able to program several films on several OGL objects dispatched on 3 G5. This desktable is on a PB, linked on Ethernet, and sends informations to 3 patches, one for each G5.
      This Videoplayertable works, and I am working with the IRCAM to programm the show with the autopatter, linked to the music cue list.
      The problem is a videorate pb. I map my films on videoplane, to be able to play them different ways, but even asking for nothing else than "play" the rate is very low.
      Especially, when I stop the film (rate 0), it seems that something continues to run (if i try with a film with sound -which i don't need) the sounds continue to play. It means the CPU keeps working, for no use.
      It seems also that the ram needs to be emptyed, i don't know how ... etc
      Thank jou for your first answer, i will try to go back and split my problems in differetns parts tomorow on the forum, as you suggested
      To be continued so...
      EriK
    • Feb 07 2006 | 6:56 pm
      On 06.02.2006, at 15:40, Duranteau wrote:
      >
      > Thank you very much Jan,
      you're welcome!
      >
      > No, I'm not a Max worker eather, I just had a two days briefing on
      > Max and Jitter few mounths ago.
      must have been a good briefing then! ;-)
      > I'm working on StageImageProject for a creation with the IRCAM in
      > PAris, no one there nows about image
      i didn't know IRCAM was *that* sound oriented...
      > and I feel a bit lonely in Paris in this activity ! It's good to
      > read the forum, and receive answers.
      > It's my first patch but I'm working on it intensively since 2
      > months ! By "pilot" I mean that I first made a big patch (an
      > videodesk table like a light-programming table for shows) to be
      > able to program several films on several OGL objects dispatched on
      > 3 G5.
      ah, like a giant remote control?
      by the way, i just programmed something similar, but then all on 1 G5
      with 2 video cards (so 3 beam outputs). but only 720 x 405 resolution.
      or at least for a while i programmed in that direction, and then
      changed plans a bit..
      > This desktable is on a PB, linked on Ethernet, and sends
      > informations to 3 patches, one for each G5.
      >
      > This Videoplayertable works, and I am working with the IRCAM to
      > programm the show with the autopatter, linked to the music cue list.
      cool!
      >
      > The problem is a videorate pb. I map my films on videoplane, to be
      > able to play them different ways, but even asking for nothing else
      > than "play" the rate is very low.
      maybe you should really first check them with the 'direct-to-window'
      method, as with that, no processing at all is applied.
      if *that* isn't smooth, it's probably a bandwith problem or so, but
      surely not your patch..
      maybe try this (ask if you don't know what to do with the next lines ;-)
      if that works fine (or doesn't), you're a step closer to the
      problem's solution (hopefully..).
      with that patch, i could display 2 movies of dim 1600 1200 very
      smoothly.
      with an OGL version, i achieved a framerate of ca. 20fps (dualCore g5
      2.33).
      both movies read from a firewire HD.
      > Especially, when I stop the film (rate 0), it seems that something
      > continues to run (if i try with a film with sound -which i don't
      > need) the sounds continue to play. It means the CPU keeps working,
      > for no use.
      i think you mix up 2 things here:
      -if you run a movie (the 'normal' method with a metro) and you switch
      off that metro, you'll still hear the movie sound, unless you stop
      the movie (with a 'stop' message, or 'rate 0'. that is normal;
      internally, it continues to play; there just aren't any matrixes
      'produced'.
      -if you stop the movie (with 'stop' or 'rate 0', but keep the metro
      on, the movie object will still be busy - namely, outputting the same
      frame all the time.
      to truly stop it, do both - metro off and 'stop'.
      if it then continues to play, there probably *is* sth wrong!..
      > It seems also that the ram needs to be emptyed, i don't know
      > how ... etc
      try the 'dispose' message!
      >
      >
      >
      > Thank jou for your first answer, i will try to go back and split
      > my problems in differetns parts tomorow on the forum, as you suggested
      >
      > To be continued so...
      >
      ok!
      as i said before, a (partial) example patch of what you are doing
      would help to help!
      good luck,
      jan