N Breakpoint Envelope Generator w/ y axis range >1?


    Jan 18 2007 | 11:00 pm
    I'm thinking about getting Max/MSP, but I'm wondering if the following module (don't know if this is the right term) has been created:
    A N Breakpoint Envelope Generator, where N = any positive integer, and where the y-axis has a range greater than 1, preferably user definable, and preferably with a GUI that allows creation and moving of breakpoints by clicking and dragging with a mouse, but which also allows entering numerical values for any given breakpoint using the computer's keyboard. Hopefully it would be easy for the user to set the numerical precision too (for example, set (X,Y) to (1.01, 2.03), or to (1.0132423, 2.0342344), i.e. switching from 3 digits to 8 digits precision.
    I want to use such an envelope to control the frequency of a sine oscillator, as a function of tiime. I'd like input the frequency values directly into the envelope generator (for example if I want to set a breakpoint's frequency to 542.543, I could simply click on the desired breakpoint, and type in "542.543").
    Is there such a module available in Max/MSP or the user developed content?
    Thanks, any help is appreciated

    • Jan 19 2007 | 8:55 am
      you could make a patch that did that fairly easily.
      emmanuel jordans breakpoint editor is very useful
    • Jan 19 2007 | 3:17 pm
      Max Planck wrote:
      > Is there such a module available in Max/MSP or the user developed
      > content?
      Yes, out of the box a graphical breakpoint function editor. All you
      mention is possible. You might need to think about scaling things
      appropriate to deal with screen resolution. But this is very possible...
      There are also 3rd party objects which adress more esoteric needs...
      Stefan
      --
      Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
      --_____-----------|--------------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
      -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
      ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jan 19 2007 | 11:26 pm
      Thanks for the replies guys.
      Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 08:17
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > Yes, out of the box a graphical breakpoint function editor. All you
      > mention is possible. You might need to think about scaling things
      > appropriate to deal with screen resolution. But this is very possible...
      ----------------------------------------------------
      I am currently a Reaktor user, and I realize that this is "possible" in Reaktor too. However, it would take a lot more effort and time than I want to put in to build such an envelope generator, or to modify one of the already existing envelope generators for my needs (they are very complicated!).
      This is why I'm wondering if there is a way to do what I'm trying to do in Max/MSP that won't require me to build my own envelope generator, or dissect a someone else's very complicated envelope generator in order to modify it for my needs. I'm trying to see if there is something that I can use in Max/MSP that will meet my needs here "out of the box," without me having to modify it (other than me having to set the resolution, zoom factors, etc.).
      I can live without the GUI although it would be nice. The essential feature would be its allowing me to enter values from 20 to 20,000, with an unlimited or at least very large possible number of breakpoints, and with an unlimited or at least very large possible time scale (x-axis length).
      Is there such an object or module that can meet my needs here without my having to dissect/modify a complex structure or build my own object or module from scratch?
      Sorry to ask redundantly, but I just want to be sure. Thanks again.
    • Jan 19 2007 | 11:37 pm
      I think you are looking for the zigzag~ object. Seems like that will do
      exactly what you want.
      Andrew B.
    • Jan 19 2007 | 11:51 pm
      I think you'll find there's plenty available right out of the box, including a lot of possibilities you may not have thought of. Using the bpfunction object should allow you to do everything you've said without having to "hack it". Any "hacking" would actually be the controls and mini-UI you design *around* the bpfunction object to enter / manage your data inside. The UI lets you manipulate points, and if you want to enter them with the keyboard, that's straightforward too.
      As mentioned, look into the ejies functions, he has a very updated bpfunction object that provides zoom and multiple bpfunctions to appear simultaneously. The zoom alone is worth it for flexibility...
      Think beyond just the traditional envelope generator idea---there are all kinds of simple and powerful ways to manage / automate / modulate the data going in and out of your envelope.... not to mention how and at what rate you access the data... or where you send it... or what it does... or how you get it into the envelope... etc.
      You should become a Maxer!
      -C
    • Jan 20 2007 | 5:37 am
      Quote: andrewb@cycling74.com wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 16:37
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > I think you are looking for the zigzag~ object. Seems like that will do
      > exactly what you want.
      >
      > Andrew B.
      >
      ----------------------------------------------------
      Can you recommend where I can learn more about the zigzag object? I am playing with Max MSP now and have found it, but I can't find any info about it in the manuals, nor any info explaining it online...
    • Jan 20 2007 | 5:41 am
      Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 08:17
      ----------------------------------------------------
      >out of the box a graphical breakpoint function editor. All you
      > mention is possible. You might need to think about scaling things
      > appropriate to deal with screen resolution. But this is very possible...
      ----------------------------------------------------
      This graphical breakpoint function editor seems to only allow a max y value of 1. Is this true? If not, how can I adjust the max value?
      If the max value really is 1, then can you recommend an alternative that will allow a y axis range of 20 to 20,000?
    • Jan 20 2007 | 6:51 am
      ummm...the manual? Don't think you are looking hard enough! page 455-460 of the MSP reference manual. Plus examples that use it in the examples folder.
      David
    • Jan 20 2007 | 6:51 am
      Actually, it is "zigzag~". In Max, objects that end with a tilde "~", are
      MSP
      objects. When ever you are in doubt and need more info on an object,
      select that object and hit the F1 key for help info on the object. You can
      also right click and select help. The help files are by far the greatest
      thing about
      Max.
      To display values ranging from 20 - 20000, you will need to scale them
      to 0 - 1. Use the "scale" object.
      Anthony
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Max Planck"
      To:
      Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:37 PM
      Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Re: N Breakpoint Envelope Generator w/ y axis range
      >1?
      >
      > Quote: andrewb@cycling74.com wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 16:37
      > ----------------------------------------------------
      > > I think you are looking for the zigzag~ object. Seems like that will do
      > > exactly what you want.
      > >
      > > Andrew B.
      > >
      > ----------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Can you recommend where I can learn more about the zigzag object? I am
      playing with Max MSP now and have found it, but I can't find any info about
      it in the manuals, nor any info explaining it online...
    • Jan 20 2007 | 10:46 pm
      > This graphical breakpoint function editor seems to only allow a max y value of 1. Is this true? If not, how can I adjust the max value?
      >
      > If the max value really is 1, then can you recommend an alternative that will allow a y axis range of 20 to 20,000?
      to change the range to 20,000 you would have to connect
      a box before the envelope with "/ 20000." in it,
      and an other box with "* 20000."
      if thats aleady too much custom programming work for you, i
      can recommend itunes as the perfect music program for you.
      for such specific things you will always get help here at
      the forums so stop worrying about ungelegte eier.
      -110 :)
    • Jan 21 2007 | 6:27 pm
      Quote: Roman Thilenius wrote on Sat, 20 January 2007 15:46
      ----------------------------------------------------
      >
      > > This graphical breakpoint function editor seems to only allow a max y value of 1. Is this true? If not, how can I adjust the max value?
      > >
      > > If the max value really is 1, then can you recommend an alternative that will allow a y axis range of 20 to 20,000?
      >
      >
      >
      > to change the range to 20,000 you would have to connect
      > a box before the envelope with "/ 20000." in it,
      > and an other box with "* 20000."
      >
      > if thats aleady too much custom programming work for you, i
      > can recommend itunes as the perfect music program for you.
      >
      > for such specific things you will always get help here at
      > the forums so stop worrying about ungelegte eier.
      >
      >
      > -110 :)
      >
      >
      >
      ----------------------------------------------------
      lol @ itunes, thanks for the info.
      I've considered doing it in the way that you're suggesting, but the problem is that I want to enter the frequency values (20 to 20,000) in the GUI, rather than entering a value from 0 to 1 and having it scaled up.
      Is there any way to have a graphical breakpoint editor where the y-axis range can be adjusted? Someone mentioned zigzag~, can this do that?
    • Jan 21 2007 | 6:40 pm
    • Jan 21 2007 | 7:01 pm
      maybe i'm missing something, but function does *ALL* of that. have
      you looked at the help-file and Reference of that object at all?
      /*j
      max v2;
      On 21 Jan 2007, at 19:27, Max Planck wrote:
      >
      > Quote: Roman Thilenius wrote on Sat, 20 January 2007 15:46
      > ----------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >>> This graphical breakpoint function editor seems to only allow a
      >>> max y value of 1. Is this true? If not, how can I adjust the
      >>> max value?
      >>>
      >>> If the max value really is 1, then can you recommend an
      >>> alternative that will allow a y axis range of 20 to 20,000?
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> to change the range to 20,000 you would have to connect
      >> a box before the envelope with "/ 20000." in it,
      >> and an other box with "* 20000."
      >>
      >> if thats aleady too much custom programming work for you, i
      >> can recommend itunes as the perfect music program for you.
      >>
      >> for such specific things you will always get help here at
      >> the forums so stop worrying about ungelegte eier.
      >>
      >>
      >> -110 :)
      >>
      >>
      >>
      > ----------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > lol @ itunes, thanks for the info.
      >
      > I've considered doing it in the way that you're suggesting, but the
      > problem is that I want to enter the frequency values (20 to 20,000)
      > in the GUI, rather than entering a value from 0 to 1 and having it
      > scaled up.
      >
      > Is there any way to have a graphical breakpoint editor where the y-
      > axis range can be adjusted? Someone mentioned zigzag~, can this do
      > that?
      >