[OT] Who invented ring modulation and who used it first in a composition?


    Nov 02 2008 | 7:55 pm
    Hello,
    I cannot find who invented ring modulation as a technique for sound transformation and when. A source names Harald Bode but I cannot find a confirmation nor a date.
    Are there compositions using it prior to Stockhausen's Kontakte?
    Thank you for helping.
    Roald Baudoux -------------------------------- Composer of electroacoustic art (acousmatic music, sound installations, live electronics). (http://www.roaldbaudoux.org/)
    Junior Lecturer for the Royal Conservatory of Music (Mons, Belgium). (http://www.conservatoire-mons.be) -------------------------------- Tel/fax: +32.(0)2.503.23.46 Mobile: +32.(0)497.32.38.13

    • Nov 02 2008 | 8:24 pm
      Bode is also mentioned in the CMT as one of the pioneers of ring modulation. The sources Roads cites from Bode in conjunction with RM are:
      Bode, H. 1967. "The multiplier type ring modulator." Electronic Music Review 1.
      Bode, H. 1984. "History of electronic sound modification." Journal of the Audio Engineering Society 32(10): 730-739.
      Those both look very promising...
      --Brennon
    • Nov 02 2008 | 8:53 pm
      They also call it Double Side Band amplitude modulation, The term RM is coming from an analogue device where the electronic circuit looked like a ring and the input signal is modulated by an on/off signal.
      if that helps.
      regards, sophocles
      On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Roald Baudoux wrote:
      > Hello, > I cannot find who invented ring modulation as a technique for sound > transformation and when. A source names Harald Bode but I cannot find a > confirmation nor a date. > > Are there compositions using it prior to Stockhausen's Kontakte? > > Thank you for helping. > > Roald Baudoux > -------------------------------- > Composer of electroacoustic art (acousmatic music, sound installations, > live electronics). > (http://www.roaldbaudoux.org/) > > Junior Lecturer for the Royal Conservatory of Music (Mons, Belgium). > (http://www.conservatoire-mons.be) > -------------------------------- > Tel/fax: +32.(0)2.503.23.46 > Mobile: +32.(0)497.32.38.13 > > > > > >
    • Nov 02 2008 | 9:17 pm
      This thread is rather interesting.
      Would you guys care to lay down the basic principles behind ring modulation again by posting a number of explanatory links?
      Thank you very much!
      jrp
    • Nov 02 2008 | 11:23 pm
      Hi,
      MSP tutorials 8 and 9 talk about ring modulation. You could start there.
      Best,
      Nicolas ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:17:19 -0700 > From: jlistshit@kliklak.net > Subject: [maxmsp] What exactly is ring modulation and where can i read about this? > > > This thread is rather interesting. > > Would you guys care to lay down the basic principles behind ring modulation again by posting a number of explanatory links? > > Thank you very much! > > jrp > -- > --- > fiction-induced heat
    • Nov 02 2008 | 11:34 pm
      Hey, ring modulation is covered quite extensively in the Computer Music Tutorial (Roads, ISBN-10: 0262680823). I think it might also say quite a bit about the origin of the effect, as well as the maths and application side of it.
    • Nov 03 2008 | 12:48 pm
      Karlheinz Stockhausen was using it a lot in the 50s, but perhaps some other composers (or non-musicians) knew it before him.
    • Nov 03 2008 | 9:28 pm
      Harold Bode in his article "The Multiplier-Type Ring Modulator" (Electronic Music Rewiew Jan. 67) mentions the Klangumformer (L. Heck and P. Buerck), a sophisticated ring modulator of 1956. So, I am pretty sure, that this technique was used before 1956.
      Bruno Spoerri
      > Von: Roald Baudoux > Antworten an: > Datum: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:55:46 +0100 > An: Max List List > Betreff: [maxmsp] [OT] Who invented ring modulation and who used it first in a > composition? > > Hello, > > I cannot find who invented ring modulation as a technique for sound > transformation and when. A source names Harald Bode but I cannot > find a confirmation nor a date. > > Are there compositions using it prior to Stockhausen's Kontakte? > > Thank you for helping. > > Roald Baudoux > -------------------------------- > Composer of electroacoustic art (acousmatic music, sound > installations, live electronics). > (http://www.roaldbaudoux.org/) > > Junior Lecturer for the Royal Conservatory of Music (Mons, Belgium). > (http://www.conservatoire-mons.be) > -------------------------------- > Tel/fax: +32.(0)2.503.23.46 > Mobile: +32.(0)497.32.38.13 > > >
    • Nov 03 2008 | 9:47 pm
      goes back to stockhausen's kontake, if in a kind of unorganized fashion, the lack of a properly ordered historical section.
      harold bode's article is missing there, but they mention the use of ring modulators as a technical feature of older fm radios.
    • Nov 04 2008 | 7:43 am
      Also the subharchord was using ring modulation
      I am pretty sure Oskar Sala was using ring modulation as well, but I don't know since when...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Nov 04 2008 | 8:26 am
      I don't find any trace of a ring modulator in the description of the subharchord. But Werner Meyer-Eppler described the musical application of RM already 1949 in his book "Elektrische Klangerzeugung" (as mentioned in Elena Ungeheuers book on p. 208), and he demonstrated his experiments in June 1953 in Delft.
      Bruno Spoerri
      > Von: Stefan Tiedje > Antworten an: > Datum: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:01 +0100 > An: > Betreff: Re: [maxmsp] Re: [OT] Who invented ring modulation and who used it > first in a composition? > > jayrope schrieb: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulator > > Also the subharchord was using ring modulation > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subharchord > > I am pretty sure Oskar Sala was using ring modulation as well, but I > don't know since when... > > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Tiedje------------x------- > --_____-----------|-------------- > --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- > -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- > ----------()--------www.ccmix.com >
    • Nov 04 2008 | 11:10 am
      ...EXXTERRMMMINNATE...
      i believe ring mod was also used for the daleks in dr who (bbc radiophonic / delia derbyshire). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_who
      ;)
      justin
    • Nov 04 2008 | 3:38 pm
      Mr. Spoerri, just out of curiosity: Do you own all the books you quote? A quite impressive collection! How could a normal non-academic like me have access to those? I am situated in Berlin.
      jrp
    • Nov 04 2008 | 3:43 pm
      Bruno Spoerri schrieb: > I don't find any trace of a ring modulator in the description of the > subharchord.
      I found it on the german wikipedia
      as well as there:
      > But Werner Meyer-Eppler described the musical application of RM already 1949 > in his book "Elektrische Klangerzeugung" (as mentioned in Elena Ungeheuers > book on p. 208), and he demonstrated his experiments in June 1953 in Delft.
      curious if Stockhausen heard (of) these experiments, or maybe some of the people at WDR...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Nov 04 2008 | 6:19 pm
    • Nov 04 2008 | 6:24 pm
      > I found it on the german wikipedia > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subharchord as well as there: > > http://www.subharchord.com/sub_frameset/gebrauchsanweisung/Schreibertext.html > >> But Werner Meyer-Eppler described the musical application of RM already 1949 >> in his book "Elektrische Klangerzeugung" (as mentioned in Elena Ungeheuers >> book on p. 208), and he demonstrated his experiments in June 1953 in Delft. > > curious if Stockhausen heard (of) these experiments, or maybe some of > the people at WDR...
      You're right! thank you! And, of course, Stockhausen worked with Meyer-Eppler... Bruno
    • Nov 04 2008 | 9:30 pm
    • Nov 06 2008 | 5:45 pm