Sensor for piano to replace Yamaha Disklavier ?


    Jul 19 2006 | 3:57 pm
    I have heard that there is some sensor that is designed for piano. I am writing a piece for piano and would not like to use Yamaha Disklavier to detect pitch and velocity since it will limit the chance to get the piece performed.
    Could anyone let me know where I can find the piano sensor that detects the finger movement of the peformer and can send out data of pitch and velocity ?
    Thanks.

    • Jul 19 2006 | 4:08 pm
    • Jul 19 2006 | 4:12 pm
      well there is the piano bar, by moog. but thats kinda pricey too.
      you could make a video tracking system. or build your own piano bar...
      the disklavier is hard to replace...
    • Jul 19 2006 | 4:19 pm
      I worked on the Piano Bar with Don Buchla before it was licensed to Moog. It is VERY GOOD. Fast even response, consistent behavior and excellent dynamics. There is no way you could do this in a video system and doing it yourself would be a huge project.
      Keith
      Cheng Chien-Wen wrote:
      I have heard that there is some sensor that is designed for piano. I am writing a piece for piano and would not like to use Yamaha Disklavier to detect pitch and velocity since it will limit the chance to get the piece performed.
      Could anyone let me know where I can find the piano sensor that detects the finger movement of the peformer and can send out data of pitch and velocity ?
      Thanks.
      Keith McMillen BEAM Foundation http://www.beamfoundation.org/ 510.502.5310
    • Jul 21 2006 | 9:28 am
      Ultimately, my understanding is that the pianobar, just like the disklavier is outputting MIDI, so (especially if you're not assuming MIDI playback, just input) you even could write it for a keyboard. If the disklavier is available, you use that. If not, you use a piano bar/keyboard (with sound module)
      The piano bar seems like a good idea, but it does one thing only, and it's more expensive than several decent mid-range digital pianos. Also, it means that your venue has to have a piano. With a keyboard, you can decouple played pitch from sounding pitch. That said, it would definitely be easier to schlepp the pianobar... It'd also be very nice if MOOG offered a cheaper version sans sound-producing module that just output MIDI, and omitted the flashing lights; nothing like a grand mal seizure to ruin a practice session...
      Peter McCulloch
    • Jul 21 2006 | 9:56 am
      Keith McMillen wrote: > I worked on the Piano Bar with Don Buchla before it was licensed to > Moog. It is VERY GOOD. Fast even response, consistent behavior and > excellent dynamics. There is no way you could do this in a video system > and doing it yourself would be a huge project.
      Yes, video is way too slow, 25 or 30 frames/second just wouldn't work, and it would be hard or impossible to track all keys with just one camera anyway... And the Piano Bar seems easily transportable...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jul 23 2006 | 11:57 pm
      Hi there,
      several years ago when I studied composition I wrote a piece for a machine we called a trimpin vorsetsel(?). It was a device with 88 pneumatic vents which were controlled by midi and which you placed on top of the keyboard of the piano. By sending a corresponding midi note number one of the vents pressed a key of the piano. It was even sensitive for note velocity but had a limited range between 20 and 100. The cool thing about it was that it was 88 voice polyphonic so you could write really crazy stuff and it would play it. I think the conservatory of Amsterdam still owns two of them. They were made by this guy:
      Hope it helps with your quest!
      Grt,
      Danny de Graan
    • Jul 26 2006 | 9:09 am
      danny de graan wrote: > several years ago when I studied composition I wrote a piece for a > machine we called a trimpin vorsetsel(?).
      More than 20 years ago, I was involved with Richard Teitelbaums piano project, wich utilised a Vorsetzer (a German word wich roughly translates to "device to put in front". He was playing a prepared Bechstein grand piano to track his playing and we did the manipulation with a customized 68000 computer. No Midi for the Vorsetzer that time, though we did have a Midi interface on the computer and could pass it on... For touring it was a bit heavy, but we played all over Europe, always carrying the Bechstein and two Vorsetzers.
      > The cool thing about it was that it was 88 voice polyphonic so you > could write really crazy stuff and it would play it.
      Though playing all 88 keys at the same time could burn a fuse and it we had also solonoids burnt...
      With the Disclaviers from Yamaha this system became obsolete...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jul 26 2006 | 11:05 am
      On 26-Jul-2006, at 11:09, Stefan Tiedje wrote: > With the Disclaviers from Yamaha this system became obsolete...
      Not entirely. Godfried-Willem Raes is still hard at work supporting his Player Piano, as well as a multitude of other MIDI-controllable instruments. automatons.html>
      -------------- http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ------------- Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter Universal Binaries on the way iCE: Sequencing, Recording & Interface Building for |home | chez nous| Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri| http://www.dspaudio.com/ http://www.castine.de
    • Jul 26 2006 | 11:06 am
      Stefan Tiedje wrote: > Though playing all 88 keys at the same time could burn a fuse and > it we had also solonoids burnt...
      When we had concerts with the Vorsetzel we brought our own technician with us because it did burnout fuses (a lot)...even with the midi ones. I talked to my former teacher and he said that there are planes to (re)build some new ones with all the problems resolved.
      I don't know if Trimpin build anything like a sensor device for piano's but I know Roland did for sometime. It was like the Pianobar from Moog but had a range of only 2 octaves. I don't think it was a big success but maybe you can find them on the net for a bargain.
      Danny de Graan
    • Jul 28 2006 | 11:13 pm
      danny de graan wrote: > I don't know if Trimpin build anything like a sensor device for > piano's
      The contacts Richard Teitelbaum used I think came from Trimpin, but they had to be built into the Piano (drilling wholes into the wood and such nasties). Years after the project was finished, someone from Bechstein told me they had to throw away the grand afterwards because of that... (It was too late, I couldn't ask them to give it to me instead ;-)
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Mar 14 2007 | 9:06 am
      anything new about the pianobar? has anybody had experience with this device and might be willing to share?
    • Mar 14 2007 | 9:35 am
      I used it once and it reacted very well, capturing velocity. There's a slightly tedious set-up routine, but that only has to be done once. It's a bit bulky and can get in the way of the fingers at times. The MIDI sounds are not very good, but I guess you'll probably be wanting to bypass the synth any way. All in all, the best solution I've come across.
      Jonathan
      On 14/03/07, yair reshef wrote: > > > anything new about the pianobar? > has anybody had experience with this device and might be willing to share? >
      -- Jonathan Green 0777 1680 497 jonathan@jg1983.co.uk