simple synth patches like 909 kicks etc


    Jan 21 2008 | 7:52 pm
    HI
    Anyone have some simple synthesis patches like the classic patches Gordon Reid demononstrates in SOS synth secrets, like
    etc
    This would be great starting point for patches for me and Goa thread OP :)
    Thanks

    • Jan 21 2008 | 8:01 pm
      the 909 :) anyone made a decent 909 im msp?
    • Jan 21 2008 | 8:17 pm
      All of those flow diagrams you've posted are realizable using built-in Max and MSP objects, why not have a go yourself?
      -- Owen
      petterdass wrote: > http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb02/images/fig13tr909bd.l.gif > > > the 909 :) anyone made a decent 909 im msp?
    • Jan 22 2008 | 7:26 am
      petterdass schrieb: > This would be great starting point for patches for me and Goa thread > OP :)
      Just take each block and create a patch for a block. Then connect the new abstractions according to these pictures... It almost looks like a max patch already...
      And then share it with both communities... Will make you famous... The guy who recreated the 909....
      Good luck, I'm waiting for the results...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jan 22 2008 | 5:51 pm
      i think this coud be a great project, i will try to do my part building the bd patch. yust wondering if someone can explain me how to get the ar contur generator.
      best
      i.te
    • Jan 22 2008 | 6:20 pm
      Hi,
      Use adsr~ with a decay of 0, triggered by click~.
      -- O
      i.te wrote: > i think this coud be a great project, i will try to do my part building the bd patch. > yust wondering if someone can explain me how to get the ar contur generator. > > best > > i.te >
    • Jan 22 2008 | 6:30 pm
      why not do this stuff in reactor? or just use one of the gazillion 909/808/606/x0x sample banks out there? also, magazines like computer music and such often come with soundbanks, presets, patches and samples for every imaginable subgenre of of house, trance and techno. why not start there?
      but i would like to make my contribution to the classic drum machines project any way: for the sine tone part of the 808 kick i suggest you take a look at the built-in cycle~ object.. alt-click for help on how to hook it up. you might want to modulate the frequency of this at some point, but i'm not sure if any suitable objects are available. you might have to code an external yourself ;)
      good luck with the project!
      ps: don't forget to use anolog summing emulation! it is the only way to achieve this really _big_ sound
    • Jan 22 2008 | 7:00 pm
      hi owen,
      ok, and after :)
    • Jan 22 2008 | 7:03 pm
      well, this looks like the starter patch.. i include a tap external but this can be replaced by biquad, i think.
    • Jan 22 2008 | 7:23 pm
      Look at the [adsr~], [function], [line~] and [zigzag~] objects for some starting places.
      On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:51 AM, i.te wrote:
      > > i think this coud be a great project, i will try to do my part > building the bd patch. > yust wondering if someone can explain me how to get the ar contur > generator.
      ---- Steven M. Miller Professor, Contemporary Music Program College of Santa Fe
      Home SFIFEM Atrium Sound Space OVOS CMP
    • Jan 22 2008 | 7:43 pm
      On Jan 22, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Klaas-Jan Govaart wrote:
      > > why not do this stuff in reactor? or just use one of the gazillion > 909/808/606/x0x sample banks out there? > also, magazines like computer music and such often come with > soundbanks, presets, patches and samples for every imaginable > subgenre of of house, trance and techno. why not start there?
      There's no educational value in just using someone else's samples, particularly for something so simple as these sound generator patches. You'd learn a lot of valuable (and widely applicable) synthesis and programming knowledge by putting these together in MaxMSP (or other suitable synthesis/processing language/environment.
      > > but i would like to make my contribution to the classic drum > machines project any way: > for the sine tone part of the 808 kick i suggest you take a look > at the built-in cycle~ object.. alt-click for help on how to hook > it up. you might want to modulate the frequency of this at some > point, but i'm not sure if any suitable objects are available. > you might have to code an external yourself ;)
      No externals necessary - all you need is right there in the standard MaxMSP distribution.
      > > good luck with the project! > > ps: don't forget to use anolog summing emulation! it is the only > way to achieve this really _big_ sound
      Do you have any info or references for coding 'analog summing emulation'?
      Best,
      Steven
      ---- Steven M. Miller Professor, Contemporary Music Program College of Santa Fe
      Home SFIFEM Atrium Sound Space OVOS CMP
    • Jan 22 2008 | 8:05 pm
      On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:51 AM, smill wrote:
      Look at the [adsr~], [function], [line~] and [zigzag~] objects for some starting places.
      hi steven, i know this objects but i
    • Jan 22 2008 | 8:29 pm
      i didn't get enough sleep to be so serious about stuff like this steven
      and yes, if you want a 909, because of its sound, or better: because you want to actually _produce music_ with this sound, i feel you are waisting your time trying to make it in max msp. better take a good sample and start sequencing your groove.
      the thread started with a request for ready made patches to help the production of goa trance, so i thought it was actually about making tracks, not about the educational value of learning to create an exponential curve to create a dropping sine tone.
      and excuse my little wink in there, don't you love the warmth of analog summing when your mixing down your beatz??
    • Jan 22 2008 | 8:42 pm
      the ar contour generator would supplying be an attack release envelope to control the pitch of the vco (cycle~)
      a quick rise in the attack phase of the sound followed by a linear or exponential release phase during the decay of the sound taking the pitch of the oscillator back down again. line~ should be able to get you close to where you want to be with a message like 0, 1 5 0 100. play around with the values 5 and 100 to tweak the sound to your liking.
    • Jan 22 2008 | 9:12 pm
      o and by the way, don't forget to scale (e.g. *~ 80 >> +~20) the output of line to the frequency range you want the "contour generator" to cover. for efficiency reasons, you could also incorporate these freq values in the line message.
      20, 100 5 20 100
      (from 20 to 100 hz in 5ms and back to 20hz in 100ms)
    • Jan 22 2008 | 10:26 pm
      On Jan 22, 2008, at 1:29 PM, Klaas-Jan Govaart wrote:
      > and yes, if you want a 909, because of its sound, or better: > because you want to actually _produce music_ with this sound, i > feel you are waisting your time trying to make it in max msp. > better take a good sample and start sequencing your groove. > > the thread started with a request for ready made patches to help > the production of goa trance, so i thought it was actually about > making tracks, not about the educational value of learning to > create an exponential curve to create a dropping sine tone.
      And here I thought that, given that he posted to the MaxMSP list, he was interested in building these in MaxMSP, or at least using abstractions for them in MaxMSP. Since MaxMSP is primarily a construction kit, rather than a finished sequencing app, it stood to reason - or so I thought - that he was interested in this aspect at least as much as the sonic results. Who' a thunk it!?
      > > and excuse my little wink in there, don't you love the warmth of > analog summing when your mixing down your beatz?? Missed the wink, sorry...I prefer my beatz to be ice-cold. ;)
      ---- Steven M. Miller Professor, Contemporary Music Program College of Santa Fe
      Home SFIFEM Atrium Sound Space OVOS CMP
    • Jan 22 2008 | 10:28 pm
    • Jan 23 2008 | 10:46 pm
      Klaas-Jan Govaart schrieb: > why not do this stuff in reactor? or just use one of the gazillion > 909/808/606/x0x sample banks out there? also, magazines like computer > music and such often come with soundbanks, presets, patches and > samples for every imaginable subgenre of of house, trance and techno. > why not start there?
      Because it no fun at all... But if you do it yourself, and start to understand, you can easily go beyond the prefabricated mediocre sounds you hear all over the places... Even if they are not as a high in "standard" as those "professional" ones, I prefer to hear self grown sounds, its like self grown food, no comparison to what the famous brands can deliver. But you'll only know it if you made your own experience with it. The difference is spirit, not specs...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jan 23 2008 | 11:11 pm
      I prefer to hear self grown sounds, its like self grown food, no > comparison to what the famous brands can deliver.
      I totally agree with that Stefan. I was under the impression that the aim was to write an as close emulation of a 909 in Max as possible, just to use the 909 sounds in goa trance tunes. To me, that is a waste of time. It already exist, so why not just use it to make the music you want to make with it? There is also a lot of synth patches and other stuff available as good starting points. Earlier there was a request for bass sounds for goa. That's why to me it made sense to start with good patches for the specific style the guy was after, and then tweak it (in Reaktor or whatever program) from there.
      On the other hand, if you want to build a 909 and use it as a base patch to then develop further as a very personal drum machine.. Sure. I agree with you. Home grown has more character.
      And if you want to build this 909 to just learn max in a fun way than doing tutorials, of course. Like Steven also pointed out, it would probably be a quite educational experience.
      But making trying an emulation in max, just because you want that specific sound.. Why not just use that sound then? I guess I misunderstood.
      I'd be curious to see what kind of 909 rolls out eventually :)
      How's the kick coming along guys?
      Regards, kjg
    • Jan 24 2008 | 12:30 pm
      It's always good to hear the ol' days 909 sound in the goatrance. It's even better if you can say that you've build it yourself. But the best is to go beyond the original 909, and add some extra features to the concept! So in my opinion making an emulation of a long time excisting apparatus creates more excitement than using samples. (at least for the creator) Adding extra features will create a piece of art! This all cannot be said of using samples. You should follow Stefan's first post, and try to build all blocks in the given diagram and finally put them together. I think it's an interesting project, I hope to see the result in the end ;) Happy patching!
      Jeroen Groot.
      Ps analog summation could be integrated if you use some more vca's and throw away your mixer 'building blocks'. You can route the signals through your audio outputs of your soundcard and mix them together using analog mixer. But I think that you won't hear the difference unless you have a class A mixing console at your goa party??
    • Jan 24 2008 | 5:54 pm
      Klaas-Jan Govaart schrieb:
      o and by the way, don't forget to scale (e.g. *~ 80 >> +~20) the output of line to the frequency range you want the "contour generator" to cover. for efficiency reasons, you could also incorporate these freq values in the line message.
      20, 100 5 20 100
      (from 20 to 100 hz in 5ms and back to 20hz in 100ms) Re: simple synth patches like 909 kicks etc
      thanks for the hints. actually the patch is working fine and i like to share it sone but is there a way to set the freq values in the line messeage dinamicly? best, i.te
    • Jan 24 2008 | 7:14 pm
      +1 to Stefan Tiedje - its no fun at all (using samples), and would not engage me to put me in the creative buzz, i need to convince myself im doing somethig interesting if im going to make good music. Also if I know each sound component to the core, its easier to diagnoste my mix an add/remove correct type/amount of processing Many electronic musicians including me take pride in using sounds only synthesized or recorded by ourselves. That is also coming down to kind of music being produced by me, which often lack the arrangemet, harmony and melody you hear in other kinds of music. I would not feel the final musical product was personal enough if the kick drum was a result of browsing a commercial sound bank. If i wanted to use 909 samples, i would buy a 909 on ebay, sample it through my old outboard gear, and then sell it. Even then i would probably not use the hat, ride and crash in my music, even those are the kind of samples i may make excuse for as these are considered classics, like amen break Actually i was bidding on a 909 on ebay when d16 released drumazon to a fraction of the price of a secondhand real 909, so i saved my money. I think they make the best VA version of the tb and tr classics.( chris List also made a good 909 kick in Reaktor, if you know any more VA 909, please tell me !) But the D16 recreations also irrtates me with maintaing the lack of flexibility inherent in building hardware drummachines, i could use much greater range on all parameters, and more parameters. Im looking forward to start tweaking, customizing and hopefully expanding this patch !! :)
    • Jan 24 2008 | 10:41 pm
      When I'm brain storming, I'd rather have a blank canvas When I'm in a creative situation, I'd rather have units I can rip apart.
      my two cents.
    • Jan 25 2008 | 9:18 am
      hi list, for my part i share this little patch i made . it's a emulation of the tr808 bd
    • Jan 25 2008 | 7:36 pm
      is there a way to set the freq values in the line messeage dinamicly? > best, > i.te >
      How about something like this? Regards, kjg
    • Jan 25 2008 | 8:57 pm
      Hi there,
      I'm working on a library of ready-made objects that are based on the standard objects supplied by maxmsp. The idea is to have a library of objects that are NOT supplied by cycling'74 but which you use a lot, like LFO's, bassdrums, filters e.a.. Many of you have probably a whole bunch of such objects (patches) you use all of the time. I'm now making these objects in such a way they are universal for all max users. If other people would like to join you are welcome.
      However, one of these objects is a bassdrum object.
      Save this patcher as d-filter~
      Save this patcher as d-bd~
      Save this patcher as d-bd~.help
    • Feb 01 2008 | 11:59 am
      Hi, I've given this topic a thought in a sleepless night because I always wanted to build a drum machine myself. after some reading (indeed SOS articles are pretty damn convenient..) I've build a few patches. hihats snare and bd. I'm willing to share some on the board for everyone who's interrested. They're still a bit sloppy but simple. The pulsgen's of the hihats need some more tuning. Also the snare is likely to be modified a bit for a better sound. The bassdrum is still a mess so i won't share this one, unless someone is in need for it... cheers, Jeroen.
      snare:
      hihats:
    • Feb 04 2008 | 9:39 am
      Hi JAHroen!
      Thanks for the patches! I would much like to look at your kick drum also!
      Cheers
    • Feb 07 2008 | 6:14 pm
      sorry for the late reaction, i was away for a few days. I've made a simplyfied version of my bd patch. you could add some kind of overdrive or something, that adds more functions. In my own version I implemented some noise multiplied by another adsr~, which adds some more nice (james holden) sounds. Do you have some more idea's or patches regarding drumcomputers? anyway here's my patch:
      2008/2/4, petterdass : > > > Hi JAHroen! > > Thanks for the patches! > I would much like to look at your kick drum also! > > Cheers > >
    • Feb 07 2008 | 7:15 pm
      See also this thread: http://tinyurl.com/2yqlqv Cheers Roger
      On 07/02/2008 18:14, "Jeroen Groot" wrote:
      > Do you have some more idea's or patches regarding drumcomputers?
    • Feb 07 2008 | 7:24 pm
      james holden... I forgot this guy for a while, the only guy from my progressive period thats worth following, i like his melancholic take on minimal, the nice minor pads with intelligent rythmic odd beat gating.. thanks Jahroen
    • Feb 07 2008 | 8:59 pm
      Thanks Roger! looks nice, I'll try to get this working!
      2008/2/7, Roger Carruthers : > > See also this thread: http://tinyurl.com/2yqlqv > Cheers > Roger >
      PS. Petterdass, if you lost track of Holden, try to get your hands on his recent artworks like 10101, his remake of Depeche Mode's Darkest Star and Idiot. It's worth listening.
    • Apr 11 2008 | 12:41 pm
      Hi Jahroen,
      is this snare imitating a 909 ?
    • Apr 11 2008 | 12:43 pm
      One problem is that this patch loads with all parameters initialized
    • Apr 17 2008 | 7:19 pm
      Quote: camille bodart wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 02:18 ---------------------------------------------------- > hi list, > for my part i share this little patch i made . > it's a emulation of the tr808 bd > > > max v2; > #N vpatcher 536 194 1273 714; > #P hidden outlet -83 364 15 0; > #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.; > #P number 1 1 35 9 0 127 259 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0; > #P objectname note_trigger; > #P hidden message 2 19 61 196617 set $1 nn 1; > #P hidden newex -49 -46 74 196617 match 36 nn 1; > #P hidden newex -83 332 47 196617 *~ 0.75; > #P hidden newex -69 27 40 196617 / 127.; > #P hidden newex -49 0 32 196617 sel 0; > #P hidden newex -49 -26 67 196617 unpack 0 0 0; > #P button 94 1 15 0; > #P noclick; > #P hidden newex -49 -65 56 196617 r notemidi; > #P hidden newex 239 415 91 196617 autopattr BD_808; > #X prestore click 1 0 0.44; > #X prestore note_trigger 1 0 0; > #X prestore pitch 1 0 0.13; > #X prestore release 1 0 0.44; > #P objectname BD_808[1]; > #P comment 145 84 43 196617 release; > #P comment 79 84 43 196617 pitch; > #P hidden newex 144 152 34 196617 + 0.7; > #P hidden newex 140 120 35 196617 * 0.2; > #P hidden newex 17 248 27 196617 *~; > #P hidden newex 116 222 34 196617 + 36.; > #P hidden newex 117 185 35 196617 * 36.; > #P user jsui 1 17 64 64 1 0 0 jsui_3ddial.js; > #P objectname click; > #P user jsui 133 17 64 64 1 0 0 jsui_3ddial.js; > #P objectname release; > #P user jsui 67 17 64 64 1 0 0 jsui_3ddial.js; > #P objectname pitch; > #P hidden message -113 84 59 196617 1. , 0. 200; > #P hidden newex -111 111 44 196617 line~ 1.; > #P hidden newex -29 148 64 196617 svf~ 45 0.8; > #P comment 12 83 43 196617 click; > #P comment 36 2 56 196617 note. trig.; > #P hidden connect 17 0 4 0; > #P hidden connect 4 0 3 0; > #P hidden connect 2 0 21 0; > #P hidden connect 10 0 21 0; > #P hidden connect 21 0 25 0; > #P hidden connect 19 1 20 0; > #P hidden connect 16 0 22 0; > #P hidden connect 23 0 22 0; > #P hidden connect 22 0 18 0; > #P hidden connect 18 1 19 0; > #P hidden connect 20 0 21 1; > #P hidden connect 3 0 2 0; > #P hidden connect 9 0 2 1; > #P hidden connect 24 0 23 0; > #P hidden connect 3 0 10 0; > #P hidden connect 12 0 2 2; > #P hidden connect 7 0 10 1; > #P hidden connect 20 0 17 0; > #P hidden connect 8 0 9 0; > #P hidden connect 5 0 8 0; > #P hidden connect 6 0 11 0; > #P hidden connect 11 0 12 0; > #P pop; > >
      ----------------------------------------------------
      This patch sounds very nice, but doesnt the real 808 use a sine oscillator with a decay envelope?
      Why did you use a statevariable filter as oscillator?
    • Apr 17 2008 | 7:25 pm
      and why do you multiply and add the pitch with 36?
    • Apr 18 2008 | 10:37 am
      I will have a look this evening. It's probably some 909-like imitation or some sort off J.
    • Apr 19 2008 | 3:12 pm
      This patch sound pretty good. Thanks Jahoren for sharing. I was wondering if someone out there has a tb 303 diagram. best
      Emil
    • Apr 20 2008 | 2:27 pm
      Quote: emil wrote on Sat, 19 April 2008 17:12 ---------------------------------------------------- > This patch sound pretty good. Thanks Jahoren for sharing. > I was wondering if someone out there has a tb 303 diagram. > best > > Emil ----------------------------------------------------
      I think a 303 is something like this. Google it to be sure, it shouldn't be hard to find some more detailed info.
      Oscillator with square/sawtooth wave option >> 18 or 24 db/oct LP filter >> VCA.
      regards, kjg