zipb

I've made a surround sound Max 5 patch for a theatre group using 

soundflower 16ch(fed from Ableton Live 6). Apparently, after a while 

digital distortion creeps in. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Tips? Solutions? Hardware buffers in both programs(max, Live) are 512 

I've made a surround sound Max 5 patch for a theatre group using  
soundflower 16ch(fed from Ableton Live 6). Apparently, after a while  
digital distortion creeps in. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Tips? Solutions? Hardware buffers in both programs(max, Live) are 512  
samples. Overdrive is off.

soundflower-16-ch-problem

i'm not working on surround audio or anything like that but i'm routing audio from max5 into ableton live 7 and after a while things get all distorted.

can anybody help me please? i have a very improtant rehearsal tommorow were i will need this to work nice and smooth.

i'm having the same problem!
i'm not working on surround audio or anything like that but i'm routing audio from max5 into ableton live 7 and after a while things get all distorted.
can anybody help me please? i have a very improtant rehearsal tommorow were i will need this to work nice and smooth.
please help!


i had the same kind of problem with soundflower... if i remember well,

you can also give a try to jack (www.jackosx.com) if you are on os x

> i'm not working on surround audio or anything like that but i'm routing

> audio from max5 into ableton live 7 and after a while things get all

> can anybody help me please? i have a very improtant rehearsal tommorow were

> i will need this to work nice and smooth.

i had the same kind of problem with soundflower... if i remember well,
changing the vector size in max helped.

>
> i'm having the same problem!
> i'm not working on surround audio or anything like that but i'm routing
> audio from max5 into ableton live 7 and after a while things get all
> distorted.
> can anybody help me please? i have a very improtant rehearsal tommorow were
> i will need this to work nice and smooth.
> please help!
>

allright thanks. i'm trying this out. wat does vector size actually mean?

and what does the 'scheduler in overdrive' checkbox mean?

allright thanks. i'm trying this out. wat does vector size actually mean?
and what does the 'scheduler in overdrive' checkbox mean?


changing the vector size does help but only for a couple of minutes. after that distortion gets back.

i know about jack but i don't like it. would really like to do this with soundflower.

goddamnit.
changing the vector size does help but only for a couple of minutes. after that distortion gets back.
wtf?
i know about jack but i don't like it. would really like to do this with soundflower.


audio in max is transported by packets, called vectors

the vector size determine the number of audio samples each vector contains.

as far as i know, overdrive is a specific running mode in which some vectors

can be ignored if the max scheduler doesn't have enough time to compute.

> allright thanks. i'm trying this out. wat does vector size actually mean?

> and what does the 'scheduler in overdrive' checkbox mean?

audio in max is transported by packets, called vectors
the vector size determine the number of audio samples each vector contains.

as far as i know, overdrive is a specific running mode in which some vectors
can be ignored if the max scheduler doesn't have enough time to compute.

>
> allright thanks. i'm trying this out. wat does vector size actually mean?
> and what does the 'scheduler in overdrive' checkbox mean?
>

Quote: Guillaume Evrard wrote on Tue, 14 October 2008 14:42

----------------------------------------------------

> audio in max is transported by packets, called vectors

> the vector size determine the number of audio samples each vector contains.

> as far as i know, overdrive is a specific running mode in which some vectors

> can be ignored if the max scheduler doesn't have enough time to compute.

> > allright thanks. i'm trying this out. wat does vector size actually mean?

> > and what does the 'scheduler in overdrive' checkbox mean?

so should i set the I/O vector and signal size lower or higher to solve this problem. i tried putting it higher (up to 512) wich eventually causes distortion again.

Quote: Guillaume Evrard wrote on Tue, 14 October 2008 14:42
----------------------------------------------------
> audio in max is transported by packets, called vectors
> the vector size determine the number of audio samples each vector contains.
>
> as far as i know, overdrive is a specific running mode in which some vectors
> can be ignored if the max scheduler doesn't have enough time to compute.
>
> g
>
> 2008/10/14 wit 
>
> >
> > allright thanks. i'm trying this out. wat does vector size actually mean?
> > and what does the 'scheduler in overdrive' checkbox mean?
> >
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------

so should i set the I/O vector and signal size lower or higher to solve this problem. i tried putting it higher (up to 512) wich eventually causes distortion again.


can't help you here, i had this problem too.

i tried with rewire, but i didn't managed to route audio from live to max

if you find a solution let me know please.

> changing the vector size does help but only for a couple of minutes. after

> i know about jack but i don't like it. would really like to do this with

can't help you here, i had this problem too.
i tried with rewire, but i didn't managed to route audio from live to max
(inverse is ok).

>
> goddamnit.
> changing the vector size does help but only for a couple of minutes. after
> that distortion gets back.
> wtf?
> i know about jack but i don't like it. would really like to do this with
> soundflower.
>

hate it because it's not that user friendly but there's no other way i think.

if anybody knows how to solve the soundflowerporblem please let me know!

lame. gonna try out jack.
hate it because it's not that user friendly but there's no other way i think.
if anybody knows how to solve the soundflowerporblem please let me know!


Please do not crosspost to support and this forum.

i use soundflower everyday in 16 channels and no problem at all:

1) i have macbook with latest mac osx 10.5.5

The buffer size is important as well as the vector size, in max msp

i/o vector size , not only the signal vector size.

By the ay can you specify (I cant check if you have done it already , 

the only time I had glitches (not sidtortion) were due to the buffer 

I got distortion in live once, when I was changing to many hardware, 

especially using digidesign as the end output.

By the way while I had the distortion with Live, i wasn't using 

other thing, make sure to check the audio drivers you are using in max/ 

1) i have macbook with latest mac osx 10.5.5
2) max 4.6.3
3) live the latest...7.0 something

The buffer size is important as well as the vector size, in max msp
i/o vector size , not only the signal vector size.

By the ay can you specify (I cant check if you have done it already ,  
sorry about that)
what exactly are you sending ?
 From live to max or max o live?

the only time I had glitches (not sidtortion) were due to the buffer  
size.
I got distortion in live once, when I was changing to many hardware,  
especially using digidesign as the end output.
By the way while I had the distortion with Live,  i wasn't using  
soundflower.

other thing, make sure to check the audio drivers you are using in max/ 
msp

last question:
did you try restart your computer?
mostly with digidesign it helps.
well i think you did...

i use jack osx for now. it's not as easy as soundflower but it works.

As far as I understand, Soundflower uses a system timer to drive it's timing, from the source code: 

"Soundflower is derived from Apple's 'PhantomAudioDriver'sample code. It uses the same timer mechanism to simulate a hardware interrupt, with some additional code to compensate for the software timer's inconsistencies."

The fundamental problem of this approach is that as soon as an application is using an audio device *and* Soundflower to transmit audio, then 2 different devices are dealing with sound but now using the same common time base. The 2 timing clocks may drift and this may cause clicks or other distorded sound issue.

I'm not completely sure of this analysis, but it would be interesting to get feedback on this issue from Soundflower developers.

On the contrary the Jack approach uses a common timing source provided by the Jack server for all running jack clients.

As far as I understand, Soundflower uses a system timer to drive it's timing, from the source code: 
"Soundflower is derived from Apple's 'PhantomAudioDriver'sample code. It uses the same timer mechanism to simulate a hardware interrupt, with some additional code to compensate for the software timer's inconsistencies."

the audio works fine with jack osx. it's even a little bit more flexible so that's nice but:

i have the following problem since this afternoon. i started messing with jacks latency to get the latency lower and then all of a sudden the midi clock sent out of max got fucked up.

it only sends out a midiclock @ half time now when i'm using jack. when i'm not using jack it works perfectly.

what i do is the following. i send out midiclock from max to ableton via the IAC driver with the sync~ object. 

i route audio the following. audio in form souncard is going into max o=audio out from max into ableton and audio out from ableton to the soundcards audio out.

how the hell is it possible for jack OSX to fuck with midi?

i have the following problem since this afternoon. i started messing with jacks latency to get the latency lower and then all of a sudden the midi clock sent out of max got fucked up.
it only sends out a midiclock @ half time now when i'm using jack. when i'm not using jack it works perfectly.

what i do is the following. i send out midiclock from max to ableton via the IAC driver with the sync~ object. 
i route audio the following. audio in form souncard is going into max o=audio out from max into ableton and audio out from ableton to the soundcards audio out.

how the hell is it possible for jack OSX to fuck with midi?


Quote: nit wrote on Wed, 15 October 2008 19:01

> ... i send out midiclock from max to ableton via the IAC driver with the sync~ object.

You could try another port. The IAC bus is bidirectional (kind of automatic MIDI "echo"). I don't think that Jack disturbes your clock, it might be a more complex problem. Priority of processes or alike (just a wild guess).

Quote: nit wrote on Wed, 15 October 2008 19:01
----------------------------------------------------
> ... i send out midiclock from max to ableton via the IAC driver with the sync~ object.
----------------------------------------------------

You could try another port. The IAC bus is bidirectional (kind of automatic MIDI "echo"). I don't think that Jack disturbes your clock, it might be a more complex problem. Priority of processes or alike (just a wild guess).


Grasping at straws here, but perhaps check the Jack OS X sample rate (in the

JackPilot prefs window) to be sure that it is set to whatever your hardware

(or built in) audio interface is set to? Jack *does* have MIDI

capabilities, but its not implemented to interface with CoreMIDI in Jack OS

202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction

> the audio works fine with jack osx. it's even a little bit more flexible so

> i have the following problem since this afternoon. i started messing with

> jacks latency to get the latency lower and then all of a sudden the midi clock

> it only sends out a midiclock @ half time now when i'm using jack. when i'm

> what i do is the following. i send out midiclock from max to ableton via the

> i route audio the following. audio in form souncard is going into max o=audio

> out from max into ableton and audio out from ableton to the soundcards audio

> how the hell is it possible for jack OSX to fuck with midi?

Grasping at straws here, but perhaps check the Jack OS X sample rate (in the
JackPilot prefs window) to be sure that it is set to whatever your hardware
(or built in) audio interface is set to?  Jack *does* have MIDI
capabilities, but its not implemented to interface with CoreMIDI in Jack OS
X.... So I agree this is very weird.

Dan
-- 
Dan Nigrin -  Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction
http://defectiverecords.com
http://jackosx.com

>
> the audio works fine with jack osx. it's even a little bit more flexible so
> that's nice but:
>
> i have the following problem since this afternoon. i started messing with
> jacks latency to get the latency lower and then all of a sudden the midi clock
> sent out of max got fucked up.
> it only sends out a midiclock @ half time now when i'm using jack. when i'm
> not using jack it works perfectly.
>
> what i do is the following. i send out midiclock from max to ableton via the
> IAC driver with the sync~ object.
> i route audio the following. audio in form souncard is going into max o=audio
> out from max into ableton and audio out from ableton to the soundcards audio
> out.
>
> how the hell is it possible for jack OSX to fuck with midi?
>
>


I passed to Jack because I had a similar problem too, but only with this combination

Soundflower 16ch + MOTU 828 MkII Aggregated

I was unable to send MIDI clock from Max even to HW devices.

Although if I create a New Aggregate Device it works, but only for a relatively short period of time, then puff, no MIDI clock.

This happens even with small patches, and only with the above mentioned aggregated devices.

mmm, curious.
I passed to Jack because I had a similar problem too, but only with this combination
Soundflower 16ch + MOTU 828 MkII Aggregated
Max 5
Live 7

I am on a Macbook.
I was unable to send MIDI clock from Max even to HW devices.

On 14. Oct 08, at 14:51 , Guillaume Evrard wrote:

> i tried with rewire, but i didn't managed to route audio from live 

you need to set up a rewire patch first, and only *then* start up 

live. Try with the tutorial patch. I've had good results, but then 

decided that it was still too much to do reliably before every 

performance, so right now I am just running things in parallel.

> i tried with rewire, but i didn't managed to route audio from live  
> to max (inverse is ok).

you need to set up a rewire patch first, and only *then* start up  
live. Try with the tutorial patch. I've had good results, but then  
decided that it was still too much to do reliably before every  
performance, so right now I am just running things in parallel.

soundflower 16 ch problem?