the new list


    Jan 20 2006 | 10:33 am
    I always loved the MaxMsp community and its 'old-fashioned' mailing
    list. It had a very loose, cosy community feeling, while providing
    plenty of great info.
    Suddenly everything changes, I'm no longer a member, I need to
    resubscribe, can't get a digest any longer.
    And bouncer Wally pops up, and tells me in a rather unpleasant tone
    what to to do and not to do.
    It all feels like my beloved local pub was turned into one of these
    nasty hip wine bars overnight.
    Heck, I'm seriously considering unsubscribing, this time for real.
    Regards,
    Zip

    • Jan 20 2006 | 10:55 am
      Hi,
      I'm not sharing this opinion. I'm very happy with the new lists. This is
      a great improvement. Mailman is a nice tool for mailing list. And this
      also means that Yahoo groups are definitly out, which is a great
      improvement for me.
      Maybe there is some small problem, as being obliged to subscribe again,
      but if it is the only reason to resign from the list, then this means
      that we don't need to read this list at all no ?
      Chris
    • Jan 20 2006 | 11:32 am
    • Jan 20 2006 | 12:35 pm
      As far as I remember this used to be a pretty fancy bar already but
      was trashed by a bunch of hooligans on the day Jitter was released.
      It took a while to redevelop the place but now it's back to what it
      once was.
      b.
      ________________________
    • Jan 20 2006 | 1:16 pm
      I had my reservations when I heard they were putting
      in new Windows, but it's not turned out to be quite as
      bad as I'd expected. New decor in your favourite
      watering hole always takes a bit of getting used to
      though ...
      cheers
      Roger
    • Jan 20 2006 | 1:57 pm
      I think it will benefit archive searching too.
      Getting my mailbox flooded when being out for a couple of days was charming, but a bit of pain too.
      i would like custom avatars though, really helps identification and legibility.
      and some code for urls and the like, maybe best without images, hate that.
      perhaps they should add an OT section too, then stuff like this wouldn't end up in the general archives and peoples mailbox ; )
    • Jan 20 2006 | 3:24 pm
      Actually I'm not a bouncer, but the bartender who's been serving up your drinks for the last couple years who you never noticed. I have no interest in being a bouncer, but when the old-timers come in and start throwing their drinks around and making a lot of noise about how they hate the new decor even though the drink prices are the same, and yelling at the confused new patrons that things aint what they used to be, I'm the one in the unfortunate position of having to explain they they'll need to either lower their voices or leave the bar and come back when they're sober. And I hate having to do it because I know it's the old-timers that are part of what makes this bar a great place to work, mostly cause they leave great tips.
    • Jan 20 2006 | 3:49 pm
      OI. you fecking pansy-ass msp stuck-in-the-muds. why so afraid of a
      flexible matrix dataset processor? it's OUR pub now, losers.
    • Jan 20 2006 | 4:00 pm
      IMHO this forum a great improvement for the MaxMSP community. Thank you to all the people that have been working to put it on.
      d.
    • Jan 20 2006 | 4:07 pm
      On Jan 20, 2006, at 5:33 AM, Zip Boterbloem wrote:
      > I always loved the MaxMsp community and its 'old-fashioned' mailing
      > list. It had a very loose, cosy community feeling, while providing
      > plenty of great info.
      > Suddenly everything changes, I'm no longer a member, I need to
      > resubscribe, can't get a digest any longer.
      > And bouncer Wally pops up, and tells me in a rather unpleasant tone
      > what to to do and not to do.
      > It all feels like my beloved local pub was turned into one of these
      > nasty hip wine bars overnight.
      > Heck, I'm seriously considering unsubscribing, this time for real.
      The Max list has always had that nasty hip wine bar feel in some
      ways. I blame Zicarelli for never taking his sunglasses off while
      inside. It certainly isn't helping anyway...
      And yes, it is true that the new bouncer (not Wally, but mailman)
      mistook you for someone else at first. Crushing, yes, but he's been
      informed and all is well now.
      Wally is not so tough. He likes to play tough. He's got the leather
      jacket and slicked back hair. He types in all caps. -- It'll admit
      it, I was scared at first too. However, deep down, he's a big softy.
      I saw him swerve to avoid a squirrel while following him on the road
      the other day. A lesser man would've plowed right over it, but he had
      not only the alertness to notice it, but the compassion to avoid it
      as well. (The fact that he was on a bicycle may also of had something
      to do with it. It has nice flame decals..) Besides, Pace is really
      the guy to look out for around here. He's really quiet and never
      bothers anyone, but sometimes he flips out and punches out some guy
      in the bathroom, and when he does it to you no one will believe your
      story that he started it.
      So inclusion: Eh. What can you do? The Max list is the Max list for
      better or for worse. For richer or for much, much poorer (less so if
      you're a student, but it still hurts). If it didn't have that hipster
      stench, it just wouldn't be the same. You know it. I know it. Drink up.
      - John
    • Jan 20 2006 | 4:16 pm
      On 20 Jan 2006, at 12:35, Bernhard Loibner wrote:
      > As far as I remember this used to be a pretty fancy bar already but
      > was trashed by a bunch of hooligans on the day Jitter was released.
      That was some time after antiorp used to regularly come in here with
      the ASCII equivalent of a super soaker.
      But then, I remember the list when it first started. After all, I
      started it.
      -- N.
      nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
      www.cassiel.com
    • Jan 20 2006 | 4:17 pm
      On Jan 20, 2006, at 11:07 AM, John Nowak wrote:
      > So inclusion
      Sorry -- I just wanted to nominate myself for worst typo of the month.
      - John
    • Jan 20 2006 | 6:06 pm
      Actually, I did not refer to Jitter users (like myself) as hooligans
      but to the fact that the old web-based forum was hacked (by chance)
      shortly after Jitter was released...
      cheers
      B.
      ________________________
    • Jan 20 2006 | 7:14 pm
      > we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev),
      > (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain
      > to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...
      i agree that tbird's filtering could use a bit more flexibility, but i
      don't see how it limits this job. having it put all that stuff into one
      folder will keep things mostly as they were for you... the hitch being
      the need to remember where to send new posts (replies should go to the
      right place automatically).
      now if i could just convince the author of the "correct identity"
      extension to add rule-based identities i'd be all set. too many
      aliases... don't want to blow my cover. ;)
    • Jan 24 2006 | 12:21 pm
      f.e wrote:
      > Do we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev),
      > (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain
      > to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...
      It took me around 3 minutes to subscribe to (almost all of) the other
      lists and change my Thunderbird settings. (It was no pain at all)
      This is fine for me, as it helps others with less broad interests than I
      have to keep their inbox smaller.
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
      [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
      /~~~~~
      \ /|() ()|
      ))))) )| | |( \
      /// _/)/ )))))
      ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---
      --_____-----------|----------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
      -- _|_)----|-----()----------
      ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
      Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 25 2006 | 1:46 pm
      wallace winfrey wrote:
      > And I hate having to do it
      > because I know it's the old-timers that are part of what makes this
      > bar a great place to work, mostly cause they leave great tips.
      As an oldtimer I'd just want to express my deep respect for the work you
      do.
      In the end, I believe, all oldtimers which are used to the digest will
      learn to digest the list in a much more convenient way than they used to
      do. I never understood what digests are for, but I guess there are
      tricks around (which I don't know) to make a digest digestable. I never
      wanted to learn this, and I am glad I don't have to learn them, as it
      always seemed much more difficult than learning to configure my mail
      filters.
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
      [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
      /~~~~~
      \ /|() ()|
      ))))) )| | |( \
      /// _/)/ )))))
      ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---
      --_____-----------|----------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
      -- _|_)----|-----()----------
      ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
      Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 26 2006 | 6:30 am
      > f.e wrote:
      > > Do we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev),
      > > (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain
      > > to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...
      >
      > It took me around 3 minutes to subscribe to (almost all of) the other
      > lists and change my Thunderbird settings. (It was no pain at all)
      > This is fine for me, as it helps others with less broad interests than I
      > have to keep their inbox smaller.
      >
      > Stefan
      the new system is better than the old one ... but many of us still
      complain ... i for example.
      which is the right maillinglist for jokes, general talking,
      litter power pack promotion, zsolts innovation theorems, my
      useful comments, or the 100 posts i got today about
      "soundcard for G4" ?
      will we ban this off the new lists, or will we post these off
      topic posts to "maxmsp" in the future ?
      i am really happy that "java" and "dev" is out of here now,
      and i think the same is true for poeple which only want to read "dev".
      but i dont get why we would have an extra group for jitter (which
      usually involves max) or pluggo (which causes about 3 posts per month)
      hey i think i move to forum only.
      --
      Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
    • Jan 26 2006 | 11:16 am
      I quite like using the forum, however, it now leaves it open to the elements so to speak. I think the mailing list had the advantage of being slightly less accessible and maybe even a little difficult to get apart of. Well, now the doors wide open, and holy sweet christ, here they come.
      It is better this way though, although, well I don't know. I remember reading forums with links back in teh day. Who knows, I think it'll all be alright in the end.
      I'm not really a list old timer, so I don't find it that hard adjusting. I find it easier to keep up on topics this way, though. Definetly. Yeah.
      j
      smileys are bad things...
    • Jan 26 2006 | 4:59 pm
      Roman Thilenius wrote:
      > which is the right maillinglist for jokes, general talking,
      > litter power pack promotion, zsolts innovation theorems, my
      > useful comments, or the 100 posts i got today about
      > "soundcard for G4" ?
      basically its easy, post coffee house jokes to the java list, reporters
      jokes to javascript all off topic to the maxmsp list (as its the most
      off topic list anyway ;-)
      I'd post zsolts innovation theorems to zsolt directly (with a reply-to
      to the list), maybe we can get him back that way... ;-)
      I guess the list which everybody reads is the maxmsp list...
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
      [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
      /~~~~~
      \ /|() ()|
      ))))) )| | |( \
      /// _/)/ )))))
      ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---
      --_____-----------|----------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
      -- _|_)----|-----()----------
      ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
      Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 27 2006 | 12:30 am
      > The smart kids on the street preferred to deal with all of these issues
      > by using mail filters, which are far more configurable than a set of six
      > or seven forums to subscribe and unsubscribe to.
      I might not be one of the smart kids... every time I thought about it, I
      couldn't figure out a reliable way to filter out Jitter stuff without
      losing Max/MSP suggestions that included a Jitter component (and these
      are perfectly reasonable, often quite good). Admittedly I have not
      tried any Bayesian or other ES techniques.
      It's been common to see "try methods A, B, and if you have Jitter
      perhaps C". But it seemed to me that it was the Jitter mail that was
      really providing the extra bulk to the list... at least until the list
      change. Now the extra bulk is discussion of the list changes.
    • Jan 27 2006 | 12:37 am
      well, of course! all the smart kids use jitter. :)
      On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, dlurk wrote:
      >
      >> The smart kids on the street preferred to deal with all of these
      >> issues by using mail filters, which are far more configurable than
      >> a set of six or seven forums to subscribe and unsubscribe to.
      >
      > I might not be one of the smart kids... every time I thought about
      > it, I couldn't figure out a reliable way to filter out Jitter
      > stuff without losing Max/MSP suggestions that included a Jitter
      > component (and these are perfectly reasonable, often quite good).
      > Admittedly I have not tried any Bayesian or other ES techniques.
      >
      > It's been common to see "try methods A, B, and if you have Jitter
      > perhaps C". But it seemed to me that it was the Jitter mail that
      > was really providing the extra bulk to the list... at least until
      > the list change. Now the extra bulk is discussion of the list
      > changes.
      >
    • Jan 27 2006 | 5:02 am
      Quote: James Aldridge wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 06:16
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > I quite like using the forum, however, it now leaves it open to the elements so to speak. I think the mailing list had the advantage of being slightly less accessible and maybe even a little difficult to get apart of. Well, now the doors wide open, and holy sweet christ, here they come.
      Yes, here they come. I am sorry, but the previous format was very user un-friendly, especially for those of us that are a bit timid. The new forum makes me feel more comfortable asking questions as well as responding. Not to mention the ease of navigation.
      Either way, I hope that the community embraces the new format and that all of us "new people" are not too much of a burden on the group. Just my humble opinion.
      -cameron
    • Jan 27 2006 | 5:17 am
      welcome.
      be comforatable.
      ask your questions.
      fuck 'burdens'. do what you have to do.
      v a d e //
      www.vade.info
      abstrakt.vade.info
    • Jan 27 2006 | 8:59 am
      yeah tell those burdens Vade!
      erm.
      james.
      Quote: vade wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 21:17
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > welcome.
      >
      > be comforatable.
      >
      > ask your questions.
      >
      > fuck 'burdens'. do what you have to do.
      >
      >
      > v a d e //
      >
      > www.vade.info
      > abstrakt.vade.info
      >
      >
      > On Jan 27, 2006, at 12:02 AM, faintember wrote:
      >
    • Jan 27 2006 | 11:02 am
      hmm, another plea for more/custom avatars please, I'm getting confused with all the vertigo stairs around...
    • Jan 27 2006 | 11:28 am
    • Jan 27 2006 | 2:41 pm
      i am starting a bounty for an email client written in max. i'll kick
      in US$10.
    • Jan 27 2006 | 6:44 pm
      have some more stairs!
    • Jan 27 2006 | 7:40 pm
      On Jan 27, 2006, at 9:41 AM, joshua goldberg wrote:
      > i am starting a bounty for an email client written in max. i'll
      > kick in US$10.
      Please don't tempt me. I'm wasting enough time programming nonsense
      as it is.
      - John
    • Jan 27 2006 | 9:44 pm
    • Jan 28 2006 | 5:06 am
      Yeah, setting up a mail filter is pretty god damn easy. In thunderbird, just click on the message, go to message>create file from message, and have it so the email address parses to a new directory. Total time::11.0034 seconds. I don't know why this is an issue for MAX users...., maybe Reaktor users but defintely not maxers. [no offense please as I don't speak English too well and can not defend myself properly].
    • Jan 28 2006 | 5:08 am
      In on wmax, but I imagine you could use like getmail on osx using the shell object. If I had a mac I'd build it. Now wheres my $10. Or does that not count? ERM.
      James
    • Jan 28 2006 | 8:04 am
      On Jan 28, 2006, at 12:06 AM, bine~ wrote:
      > Yeah, setting up a mail filter is pretty god damn easy. In
      > thunderbird, just click on the message, go to message>create file
      > from message, and have it so the email address parses to a new
      > directory. Total time::11.0034 seconds. I don't know why this is
      > an issue for MAX users...., maybe Reaktor users but defintely not
      > maxers. [no offense please as I don't speak English too well and
      > can not defend myself properly].
      Furthermore, at least in Apple's mail client, you click the thread
      button and... oh look, it's just like a forum! Except of course it is
      stored locally so I can access it much faster, search recent emails
      with my own client, delete things I don't want, apply my own set of
      filters instead of relying on what some board offers, assign icons to
      people if I wish, integrate it with my address book, print out things
      easily, send an email off-list without clicking around to find the
      right email, etc. Web forums are a solution looking for a problem as
      far as I am concerned. That said, we have one, so now I must move on
      to the next stage: How I Learned to Stop Complaining and Love the Forum.
      - John
    • Jan 28 2006 | 8:12 am
    • Jan 28 2006 | 8:20 am
      so what is wrong with it? (Yeah I also belong to the group that have
      30 mailing lists in his mail client.) You can always keep them in one
      folder if you want :)
    • Jan 28 2006 | 9:42 am
      You know, I must say ol' chaps, that this really is a better way of doing it. The forum is really quite a lot of fun to read and I think it makes searching a lot easier, to say the least. It makes following threads easier for me as well.
      I say we need a majordomo external. I'm not quite sure what it would do, maybe you could send it a register message and it would return to you a treatise email loaded with a bunch of nonsense. Hell, I miss the ol' major but, truly, the forum is better in many senses.
      So, in the immortal words of those lost in Computer Land.... stfu n00bs! [jk]
      jimmy the jokester
    • Jan 28 2006 | 11:05 am
      My point (which seems to have been missed by some correspondents) is
      that more mailing lists does *not* imply fewer mail filters.
      I never said that it was hard to set up a single mail filter. On the
      contrary, I have--for years!--been encouraging people to build their
      own mail filters instead of whinging about the volume of mail generated
      on the list--either by certain easily recognized topics or by certain
      particularly prolific contributors.
      But since the introduction of the new mail list system at Cycling '74,
      the number of filters related to the Max/MSP/Jitter lists (note plural)
      I need to maintain has approximately doubled. So please excuse me for
      being unable to share in the unmitigated jubilation expressed by some
      for the new system.
      On the whole I like the new site, and I'm not asking to rollback the
      new mail/forum discussion system. Can't stop progress. I go to sleep
      soundly in the calm assurance that when I've finally got everything
      fine-tuned the way I like it, a new system will be introduced and I'll
      be able to start all over again.
      -- P.
      -------------- http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ --------------
      Peter Castine | ^
      | Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
      pcastine@gmx.net |
      pcastine@bek.no | iCE: Sequencing, Recording, and Interface Building
      4-15@kagi.com | for Max/MSP
      | Extremely cool
      | http://www.dspaudio.com
      | http://www.dspaudio.com/software/software.html
    • Jan 28 2006 | 11:34 am
      petie,
      Right, yeah man I know how you feel. Its maddening but well, we all need our "hobbies", right? Doing computer based audio composition is always going to be a headache, 3 enimas, and a well.... Rest assured, the ideal computer composer of the 21st centure will be more than happy to work 16 hour days, 7 days a week just to keep up. That or, one of these days I should just unplug the cable and let all this stuff that seems to demand so much attention fall by the wayside.
      Its a difficult thing to justify [for myself]. Well, I am starting to sound ridiculous, so I'll cuss a few times. Fuck piss shit AHHHHHHHH! Okay. Hrm, I think the forum speaks for itself in being that, in itself, it tries to make the task of keeping up to date with whatever extraordingary or mundane thing is going on in our niche of the universe is 7.342% more readily accessible and hands down voted 3 to 2 more useful. Productivity has been up, and morale has been higher, what more can you ask for?
      The thing is, I think I speak for just me when I say this but feel free to agree [stopped speaking for all a long time ago], there are just some things that are going on in my head that I haven't heard outside of it just yet and I really want to bloody figure it out for some reason. The End.
      jim_buck_2
    • Jan 28 2006 | 11:37 am
      I sometimes want to just take a laptop, a solar panel, and max out to a shack in the middle of nowhere, just to see what I can really do with it, given itself alone. God knows its got good enough documentation... [although its fucking impossible to read at arial 9 on winmax, wtf is up that?]
      jaymz
    • Jan 28 2006 | 1:08 pm
      Peter Castine wrote:
      > My point (which seems to have been missed by some correspondents) is
      > that more mailing lists does *not* imply fewer mail filters.
      My point is that more mailing lists enables simpler (read: easier)
      filters - a major part of the work has been done in advance.
    • Jan 28 2006 | 2:33 pm
      On around Jan 28, 2006, at 14:08, dlurk said something like:
      > My point is that more mailing lists enables simpler (read: easier)
      > filters - a major part of the work has been done in advance.
      Sorry, cannot reproduce this here.
      Obviously, the new setup works better for some people but not for
      everybody. If you're one of the lucky ones, well, treat yourself to a
      drink.
      -- P.
      >
      -------------- http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ --------------
      Peter Castine | ^
      | Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
      pcastine@gmx.net |
      pcastine@bek.no | iCE: Sequencing, Recording, and Interface Building
      4-15@kagi.com | for Max/MSP
      | Extremely cool
      | http://www.dspaudio.com
      | http://www.dspaudio.com/software/software.html
    • Jan 28 2006 | 8:04 pm
      On Jan 28, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Peter Castine wrote:
      > On around Jan 28, 2006, at 14:08, dlurk said something like:
      >> My point is that more mailing lists enables simpler (read: easier)
      >> filters - a major part of the work has been done in advance.
      >
      > Sorry, cannot reproduce this here.
      Depends on how nasty it is to set up the first one. If doing so
      requires you setting up postfix to work with procmail, well then yes,
      subsequent filters will be easier. If you just flick a switch in
      Mail.app, then no.
      - John
    • Jan 30 2006 | 9:37 pm
      maybe not in peterland but on the foreignian islands.
      there are free mail accounts some people use where you for
      example can ONLY filter by sender adress or topic.
      (luckily not gmx)
      but i am interested to learn, how it could cause more work
      than with stuff coming from one list ?
      -110 emails per day
    • Feb 01 2006 | 5:35 pm
      John Nowak wrote:
      >
      > On Jan 27, 2006, at 9:41 AM, joshua goldberg wrote:
      >
      >> i am starting a bounty for an email client written in max. i'll kick
      >> in US$10.
      >
      >
      > Please don't tempt me. I'm wasting enough time programming nonsense as
      > it is.
      And I'll add 5.67 $ if it looks and works like the forum....
      --
      Stefan Tiedje, Klanggestalter @ CCMIX )))))@ ;- ) @)) )) )