alastair

I've been using the max/msp 4.6 beta and max/msp 4.5 at the same time 

on my Intel mac with no trouble. Where I have to use my old 

externals, I've been able to run them with max/msp 4.5.

I've now installed the release version of max/msp 4.6 and the updated 

jitter and I notice that I can't run some of the old patches in 4.5 

any more- the application just crashes when I open the patch. Could 

the install of 4.6 have made a change to my 4.5 installation somehow?

___________________________________________

I've been using the max/msp 4.6 beta and max/msp 4.5 at the same time  
on my Intel mac with no trouble. Where I have to use my old  
externals, I've been able to run them with max/msp 4.5.
I've now installed the release version of max/msp 4.6 and the updated  
jitter and I notice that I can't run some of the old patches in 4.5  
any more- the application just crashes when I open the patch. Could  
the install of 4.6 have made a change to my 4.5 installation somehow?

___________________________________________
Alastair Weakley
Creativity & Cognition Studios
Faculty of IT
University of Technology, Sydney
Australia

4-6-working-but-4-5-stopped-working-now

On Sep 19, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Alastair Weakley wrote:

> I've been using the max/msp 4.6 beta and max/msp 4.5 at the same 

> time on my Intel mac with no trouble. Where I have to use my old 

> externals, I've been able to run them with max/msp 4.5.

> I've now installed the release version of max/msp 4.6 and the 

> updated jitter and I notice that I can't run some of the old 

> patches in 4.5 any more- the application just crashes when I open 

> the patch. Could the install of 4.6 have made a change to my 4.5 

If you're crashing at launch, it is often an mxj issue, with 

mismatched max.jar and mxj object instances, as Jitter loads Jitter 

2. Make sure that you don't have the Max 4.6 folders in your file 

3. Make sure you don't have any standalones in your search path which 

4. Manually disable Jitter java loading by putting a file named 

jitter-config.txt in your search path containing the text "jitter 

5. If you had to do number 4 and it worked, then I would suggest 

making sure that steps 1-3 are not the case (fresh install of 4.5). 

6. If number 4 worked but number 5 didn't, it sounds like it is your 

Java installation (there have been some user report of this, but then 

7. Something else must be the problem. Please send a crash log and 

more information about your machine, or follow up with 

If you're not really *crashing*, but seemingly *freezing*. It's 

probably the known problem with Apple taking 30 seconds or more to 

resolve network aliases that are not present.

> I've been using the max/msp 4.6 beta and max/msp 4.5 at the same  
> time on my Intel mac with no trouble. Where I have to use my old  
> externals, I've been able to run them with max/msp 4.5.
> I've now installed the release version of max/msp 4.6 and the  
> updated jitter and I notice that I can't run some of the old  
> patches in 4.5 any more- the application just crashes when I open  
> the patch. Could the install of 4.6 have made a change to my 4.5  
> installation somehow?

If you're crashing at launch, it is often an mxj issue, with  
mismatched max.jar and mxj object instances, as Jitter loads Jitter  
Java support at launch by default.

2. Make sure that you don't have the Max 4.6 folders in your file  
preferecnes for 4.5

3. Make sure you don't have any standalones in your search path which  
contain old versions of max.jar

4. Manually disable Jitter java loading by putting a file named  
jitter-config.txt in your search path containing the text "jitter  
java 0;"

5. If you had to do number 4 and it worked, then I would suggest  
making sure that steps 1-3 are not the case (fresh install of 4.5).  
If number 4 didn't work, jump to step 7.

6. If number 4 worked but number 5 didn't, it sounds like it is your  
Java installation (there have been some user report of this, but then  
both 4.5 and 4.6 would be crashing)

7. Something else must be the problem. Please send a crash log and  
more information about your machine, or follow up with  
support@cycling74.com.

If you're not really *crashing*, but seemingly *freezing*. It's  
probably the known problem with Apple taking 30 seconds or more to  
resolve network aliases that are not present.

Thanks for that. I tried all these things, but then managed to fix 

the problem - it was to do with SubEthaEdit which took over my .mxo 

externals, and not to do with Max itself.

On 20 Sep 2006, at 10:44, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> On Sep 19, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Alastair Weakley wrote:

>> I've been using the max/msp 4.6 beta and max/msp 4.5 at the same 

>> time on my Intel mac with no trouble. Where I have to use my old 

>> externals, I've been able to run them with max/msp 4.5.

>> I've now installed the release version of max/msp 4.6 and the 

>> updated jitter and I notice that I can't run some of the old 

>> patches in 4.5 any more- the application just crashes when I open 

>> the patch. Could the install of 4.6 have made a change to my 4.5 

> If you're crashing at launch, it is often an mxj issue, with 

> mismatched max.jar and mxj object instances, as Jitter loads Jitter 

> 2. Make sure that you don't have the Max 4.6 folders in your file 

> 3. Make sure you don't have any standalones in your search path 

> 4. Manually disable Jitter java loading by putting a file named 

> jitter-config.txt in your search path containing the text "jitter 

> 5. If you had to do number 4 and it worked, then I would suggest 

> making sure that steps 1-3 are not the case (fresh install of 4.5). 

> If number 4 didn't work, jump to step 7.

> 6. If number 4 worked but number 5 didn't, it sounds like it is 

> your Java installation (there have been some user report of this, 

> but then both 4.5 and 4.6 would be crashing)

> 7. Something else must be the problem. Please send a crash log and 

> more information about your machine, or follow up with 

> If you're not really *crashing*, but seemingly *freezing*. It's 

> probably the known problem with Apple taking 30 seconds or more to 

> resolve network aliases that are not present.

Thanks for that. I tried all these things, but then managed to fix  
the problem - it was to do with SubEthaEdit which took over my .mxo  
externals, and not to do with Max itself.
Removing SubEthaEdit has worked.
Thanks again.

>
> On Sep 19, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Alastair Weakley wrote:
>
>> I've been using the max/msp 4.6 beta and max/msp 4.5 at the same  
>> time on my Intel mac with no trouble. Where I have to use my old  
>> externals, I've been able to run them with max/msp 4.5.
>> I've now installed the release version of max/msp 4.6 and the  
>> updated jitter and I notice that I can't run some of the old  
>> patches in 4.5 any more- the application just crashes when I open  
>> the patch. Could the install of 4.6 have made a change to my 4.5  
>> installation somehow?
>
> If you're crashing at launch, it is often an mxj issue, with  
> mismatched max.jar and mxj object instances, as Jitter loads Jitter  
> Java support at launch by default.
>
> First steps:
>
> 1. Try trashing your preferences
>
> 2. Make sure that you don't have the Max 4.6 folders in your file  
> preferecnes for 4.5
>
> 3. Make sure you don't have any standalones in your search path  
> which contain old versions of max.jar
>
> 4. Manually disable Jitter java loading by putting a file named  
> jitter-config.txt in your search path containing the text "jitter  
> java 0;"
>
> 5. If you had to do number 4 and it worked, then I would suggest  
> making sure that steps 1-3 are not the case (fresh install of 4.5).  
> If number 4 didn't work, jump to step 7.
>
> 6. If number 4 worked but number 5 didn't, it sounds like it is  
> your Java installation (there have been some user report of this,  
> but then both 4.5 and 4.6 would be crashing)
>
> 7. Something else must be the problem. Please send a crash log and  
> more information about your machine, or follow up with  
> support@cycling74.com.
>
> If you're not really *crashing*, but seemingly *freezing*. It's  
> probably the known problem with Apple taking 30 seconds or more to  
> resolve network aliases that are not present.
>
> -Joshua


30 seconds wouldn't be too bad, its sometimes around 5 minutes. Is Apple 

going to change that to 500 ms or less (which should be suffucient to 

realise its not there). This bug is buggin' me for years now, but end 

user reports seem to be ignored, developers are hopefully more 

Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
> If you're not really *crashing*, but seemingly *freezing*. It's  
> probably the known problem with Apple taking 30 seconds or more to  
> resolve network aliases that are not present.

30 seconds wouldn't be too bad, its sometimes around 5 minutes. Is Apple 
going to change that to 500 ms or less (which should be suffucient to 
realise its not there). This bug is buggin' me for years now, but end 
user reports seem to be ignored, developers are hopefully more 
influencial...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


On 20-Sep-2006, at 7:58, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> Is Apple going to change that to 500 ms or less (which should be 

I would have to research this to be sure, but I seem to recall that 

at the hardware protocol level connections are allowed to break for 

something like 5 to 15 seconds. It can take that long to unplug and 

replug an Ethernet cable, for instance (think about adding a node in 

a linear topology). Or if you're accessing a file server over a dial- 

up line, 500ms is not a particularly reasonable assumption to make. 

Robust general-purpose file sharing protocols need more time than that.

It might be possible for Max to build the search path using 

asynchronous calls to the file system, which could alleviate the 

cumulative effect of trying to resolve multiple network aliases 

(which seems to be Stefan's problem). An asynchronous approach would 

be a lot more complex. Who knows if this will ever percolate up the 

priority list, or if it's a feasible alternative?

In the meantime, your best bet is to avoid network aliases in the 

In general it is safe to assume that the people designing network 

protocols know what they are doing. They've been doing it a lot 

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

> Is Apple going to change that to 500 ms or less (which should be  
> suffucient to realise its not there).

I would have to research this to be sure, but I seem to recall that  
at the hardware protocol level connections are allowed to break for  
something like 5 to 15 seconds. It can take that long to unplug and  
replug an Ethernet cable, for instance (think about adding a node in  
a linear topology). Or if you're accessing a file server over a dial- 
up line, 500ms is not a particularly reasonable assumption to make.  
Robust general-purpose file sharing protocols need more time than that.

It might be possible for Max to build the search path using  
asynchronous calls to the file system, which could alleviate the  
cumulative effect of trying to resolve multiple network aliases  
(which seems to be Stefan's problem). An asynchronous approach would  
be a lot more complex. Who knows if this will ever percolate up the  
priority list, or if it's a feasible alternative?

In the meantime, your best bet is to avoid network aliases in the  
search path.

In general it is safe to assume that the people designing network  
protocols know what they are doing. They've been doing it a lot  
longer than you and me put together.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
                                Universal Binaries on the way
iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
       Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
       Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
       http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de

> In general it is safe to assume that the people designing network 

> protocols know what they are doing. They've been doing it a lot longer 

Hard to believe that its not bugging them as much as me. The only 

conclusion I got so far: the developers don't use laptops, or never 

But you're right, the 5 minutes might be a Max issue, because a simple 

not available but mounted volume will bug out after 30 seconds. (But I 

have no idea why this needs to be in the highest priority and needs to 

lock the whole machine. I would rather assume that the people don't know 

what they are doing until its explained... ;-)

A non resolving alias would immediately give me an alert if I try to 

acces it from the finder. I am sure Max should be able to grab that alert...

On the other hand I'd probably not realise any fixing, because I avoid 

aliases in the search path "wie der Teufel das Weihwasser". It didn't 

Peter Castine wrote:
> In general it is safe to assume that the people designing network  
> protocols know what they are doing. They've been doing it a lot longer 
> than you and me put together.

Hard to believe that its not bugging them as much as me. The only 
conclusion I got so far: the developers don't use laptops, or never 
connect them with a cable...

But you're right, the 5 minutes might be a Max issue, because a simple 
not available but mounted volume will bug out after 30 seconds. (But I 
have no idea why this needs to be in the highest priority and needs to 
lock the whole machine. I would rather assume that the people don't know 
what they are doing until its explained... ;-)

A non resolving alias would immediately give me an alert if I try to 
acces it from the finder. I am sure Max should be able to grab that alert...

On the other hand I'd probably not realise any fixing, because I avoid 
aliases in the search path "wie der Teufel das Weihwasser". It didn't 
happen to me for a long time...

4.6 working but 4.5 stopped working now