Eliot Palmer

this might not be relevant to any here but i thought it worth a shot...

Basically I'm wondering of anyone has seen any papers which have looked at the spectra/energy of the first moments of a struck object such as a plate.

Not the ongoing complex decay information really, just a amplitude/frequency plot of that first reaction, such as something which has mapped out the various modes going on and their relative levels in relation to the fundamental (not so much the "bang" of the strike/impulse).

im finding two types of informaiton out there:

high level calcualtions for modal analysis (for the acousticians), and lots of theory on physical modelling... but what im hoping for is just a bit of analysis from an actual (or virutal) struck 2d object

its the basis for a bit of additive synthesis...

directions, papers, examples much appreciated.

Not the ongoing complex decay information really, just a amplitude/frequency plot of that first reaction, such as something which has mapped out the various modes going on and their relative levels in relation to the fundamental (not so much the "bang" of the strike/impulse). 

its the basis for a bit of additive synthesis... 

a-question-for-the-physical-modellers-struck-plates

I think this will be in the high level physical modelling category, but you might want to look at some of Stefan Bilbao's work.

http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/Contacts/DrStefanBilbao_publications.htm

he's not sure if his work/outputs will be that useful for me unfortunately

> Basically I'm wondering of anyone has seen any papers which have

> looked at the spectra/energy of the first moments of a struck object

> its the basis for a bit of additive synthesis...

You can feed analysis from Spear directly into oscilator banks, there 

was recently some discussion about it. A working program might be more 

interesting than a paper about the subject... ;-)

Eliot Palmer wrote:
> Basically I'm wondering of anyone has seen any papers which have
> looked at the spectra/energy of the first moments of a struck object
> such as a plate.
....
> its the basis for a bit of additive synthesis...

You can feed analysis from Spear directly into oscilator banks, there 
was recently some discussion about it. A working program might be more 
interesting  than a paper about the subject... ;-)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Sorry what is spear? sounds interesting...

yeah, im not interested in producing a paper - the aim is some more complex synthesis but im hoping for a spectral (or preferably modal) breakdown from which to start from...

yeah, im not interested in producing a paper  - the aim is some more complex synthesis but im hoping for a spectral (or preferably modal) breakdown from which to start from... 

i googled the subject and found a ton of information.. i think the keyword that you need to use is "membrane". try google searches for:

i googled the subject and found a ton of information.. i think the keyword that you need to use is "membrane".  try google searches for:

membrane vibration
vibration mode of circular membrane
vibration mode of rectangular membrane


been googling - and getting a ton of (not intended) information, but yet to try with "membrane". will look into that

I use the RMI in the IRCAM lib alot, amazing stuff, they have a plate model. I also use the CNMAT resonators~

Not sure if that helps at all. Good luck!

Email me, I think I might have something I could send you.

I use the RMI in the IRCAM lib alot, amazing stuff, they have a plate model.  I also use the CNMAT resonators~

Not sure if that helps at all.  Good luck!

Email me, I think I might have something I could send you.


> Sorry what is spear? sounds interesting...

There are severa threads on the list discussing Spear and the cnmat sdif 

externals as well as FTM which both are supposed to read the analysis 

Can't add to much of my own experience here, but if you gather some, 

Eliot Palmer wrote:
> Sorry what is spear? sounds interesting...

Googles second leads to the home page:
http://www.klingbeil.com/spear/

There are severa threads on the list discussing Spear and the cnmat sdif 
externals as well as FTM which both are supposed to read the analysis 
Spear spits out...

Can't add to much of my own experience here, but if you gather some, 
please share....

yep ive been looking at spear - those CNMAT tutorials are VERY impressive!

like the functionality of resonators, especially if i do manage to get datasets of frequency, amplitude decay triplets from modal analysis.

now this might be a question maxers arent able to help with, but if i am concerned with the phase interactions between a number of overlapping "events" of a membrane stike, wouldnt a process such as that with SPEAR produce quite different results to a modal plot from matlab/calcs and the like? (i am interested in how the energies of this plate, model etc are effected by repeated strikes, whlist the sound of the previous event is still decaying)

the analysis of a composite sound (recorded, analysed, plotted in spear) will be the result of interation between sound from all the modes, so there would be a certain amount of loss of useful data from phase interferences, subtractions and the like?

whereas a modal analysis done from a physics/matlab/calculation point of view would hopefully yield the building blocks from which more complex, long term and varied phase/frequency/energy interactions could be interpolated? (broader than that yielded as the result of the particualr event being analysed)

Does anyone know if this difference is purely acedemic (or finctional)? (or unintelligible?)

mayber there is a more appropriate forum/site out there where such things would be best discussed?

yep ive been looking at spear - those CNMAT tutorials are VERY  impressive!

Does anyone know if this difference is purely acedemic (or finctional)?  (or unintelligible?)

mayber there is a more appropriate forum/site out there where such things would be best discussed?


I think you should really look at the work done by Julius Smith,

Perry Cook, Gary Scavone and Scot Van Duyne from CCRMA. Probably

the best place to start is with the Synthesis ToolKit (STK):

and also is featured prominently in the PerCoLAte objects:

Perry's book "Real Sound Synthesis for Interactive Applications" is

a great intro to all this stuff if you need it.

STK has a mailing list, I think the links to join it are from the

> yep ive been looking at spear - those CNMAT tutorials are VERY

> like the functionality of resonators, especially if i do manage

> to get datasets of frequency, amplitude decay triplets from modal

> now this might be a question maxers arent able to help with, but

> if i am concerned with the phase interactions between a number of

> overlapping "events" of a membrane stike, wouldnt a process such

> as that with SPEAR produce quite different results to a modal

> plot from matlab/calcs and the like? (i am interested in how the

> energies of this plate, model etc are effected by repeated

> strikes, whlist the sound of the previous event is still

> the analysis of a composite sound (recorded, analysed, plotted in

> spear) will be the result of interation between sound from all

> the modes, so there would be a certain amount of loss of useful

> data from phase interferences, subtractions and the like?

> whereas a modal analysis done from a physics/matlab/calculation

> point of view would hopefully yield the building blocks from

> which more complex, long term and varied phase/frequency/energy

> interactions could be interpolated? (broader than that yielded as

> the result of the particualr event being analysed)

> Does anyone know if this difference is purely acedemic (or

> mayber there is a more appropriate forum/site out there where

I think you should really look at the work done by Julius Smith,
Perry Cook, Gary Scavone and Scot Van Duyne from CCRMA.  Probably
the best place to start is with the Synthesis ToolKit (STK):

   http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/stk/

Perry's book "Real Sound Synthesis for Interactive Applications" is
a great intro to all this stuff if you need it.

STK has a mailing list, I think the links to join it are from the
stk page above.

>
> yep ive been looking at spear - those CNMAT tutorials are VERY
> impressive!
>
> like the functionality of resonators, especially if i do manage
> to get datasets of frequency, amplitude decay triplets from modal
> analysis.
>
> now this might be a question maxers arent able to help with, but
> if i am concerned with the phase interactions between a number of
> overlapping "events" of a membrane stike, wouldnt a process such
> as that with SPEAR produce quite different results to a modal
> plot from matlab/calcs and the like? (i am interested in how the
> energies of this plate, model etc are effected by repeated
> strikes, whlist the sound of the previous event is still
> decaying)
>
> the analysis of a composite sound (recorded, analysed, plotted in
> spear) will be the result of interation between sound from all
> the modes, so there would be a certain amount of loss of useful
> data from phase interferences, subtractions and the like?
>
> whereas a modal analysis done from a physics/matlab/calculation
> point of view would hopefully yield the building blocks from
> which more complex, long term and varied phase/frequency/energy
> interactions could be interpolated? (broader than that yielded as
> the result of the particualr event being analysed)
>
> Does anyone know if this difference is purely acedemic (or
> finctional)?  (or unintelligible?)
>
> thanks again all
>
> mayber there is a more appropriate forum/site out there where
> such things would be best discussed?
>

i have indeed tried out percolate before and wasn't able to get the sort of behaviour i was after given my application. But ive changed my approach recently so i might have more joy this time around...

havent checked the book though - thanks for that!

a question for the physical modellers - struck plates