nick rothwell | project cassiel

Some months ago I announced a little MXJ system for creating a 

completely embedded SQL database inside Max, saving data to text 

files in Max's search path. The forum thread is here:

index.phpt=msg&goto=70245&rid=0&S=217fa547f718feeab95599d961 307cd1&srch= 

(except that this now seems to bork out the Cycling '74 site - and I 

don't know why it's putting session information into the URL - so 

you'll probably have to do a forum search for "HSQLDB").

I've just modified the package so that it can talk to external MySQL 

databases as well as embedded HSQLDB ones, and I've build an example 

MXJ object which takes SQL statements directly, basically serving the 

same purpose as Bill Orcutt's MySQL external.

Details, instructions, examples, downloads at:

http://www.loadbang.net/space/Software/net.loadbang-SQL/MySQ

This should work on OS X and Windows XP. (I've not tested this 

version on XP, but the previous HSQLDB version worked.) I would hope 

it would work unmodified on a forthcoming Max/MSP for Mac/Intel.

I've not thrashed this release very much - I add the MySQL support 

this afternoon after having problems with Bill's MySQL external - but 

it's now running as the backbone of a sound installation I'm 

preparing for next week, and seems to be pretty happy.

nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- 

Some months ago I announced a little MXJ system for creating a  
completely embedded SQL database inside Max, saving data to text  
files in Max's search path. The forum thread is here:

	https://cycling74.com/forums/ 
 index.phpt=msg&goto=70245&rid=0&S=217fa547f718feeab95599d961 307cd1&srch= 
hsqldb#msg_70245

(except that this now seems to bork out the Cycling '74 site - and I  
don't know why it's putting session information into the URL - so  
you'll probably have to do a forum search for "HSQLDB").

I've just modified the package so that it can talk to external MySQL  
databases as well as embedded HSQLDB ones, and I've build an example  
MXJ object which takes SQL statements directly, basically serving the  
same purpose as Bill Orcutt's MySQL external.

	 http://www.loadbang.net/space/Software/net.loadbang-SQL/MySQ L

This should work on OS X and Windows XP. (I've not tested this  
version on XP, but the previous HSQLDB version worked.) I would hope  
it would work unmodified on a forthcoming Max/MSP for Mac/Intel.

I've not thrashed this release very much - I add the MySQL support  
this afternoon after having problems with Bill's MySQL external - but  
it's now running as the backbone of a sound installation I'm  
preparing for next week, and seems to be pretty happy.

   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com


announce-mysql-access-from-loadbang-net-mxj-library

I was so enthusiastic for your mxj objects that i decided to focus my

summer/holiday studies on JDBC and HSQLDB.

Is there a reason why you should use the MySQL solution rather than the

I was so enthusiastic for your mxj objects that i decided to focus my
summer/holiday studies on JDBC and HSQLDB.
Is there a reason why you should use the MySQL solution rather than the
HSQLDB one?

> Is there a reason why you should use the MySQL solution rather than 

They're rather different kinds of animal.

The appeal of HSQLDB is that (i) it's 100% Java (so 100% portable and 

can be wrapped in a single JAR file) and (ii) it can run in embedded 

mode, so I designed the first release of the MXJ tools for using it 

as a self-contained storage/query solution without need for an 

I added support for MySQL because I wanted to query a MySQL database 

which is being populated elsewhere. (My sound/video installation has 

a computation engine written in C running on Linux, and the neatest/ 

quickest way to manipulate the data in Max/MSP was to write some Perl 

on the Linux side to punt data into MySQL, and then query it out on 

MySQL seems to be the most popular database out there in hobby and 

open-source land; I've also used PostgreSQL (and DB2 and Oracle, for 

that matter, although the latter two aren't free) and could be 

persuaded to add support for these ... if people *really* want to 

interface Max/MSP to enterprise-level data stores.

HSQLDB can also run as a conventional server, but it's not that 

widely deployed as far as I can tell, and the embedded mode seems 

> Is there a reason why you should use the MySQL solution rather than  
> the HSQLDB one?

The appeal of HSQLDB is that (i) it's 100% Java (so 100% portable and  
can be wrapped in a single JAR file) and (ii) it can run in embedded  
mode, so I designed the first release of the MXJ tools for using it  
as a self-contained storage/query solution without need for an  
external server.

I added support for MySQL because I wanted to query a MySQL database  
which is being populated elsewhere. (My sound/video installation has  
a computation engine written in C running on Linux, and the neatest/ 
quickest way to manipulate the data in Max/MSP was to write some Perl  
on the Linux side to punt data into MySQL, and then query it out on  
the Max side.)

MySQL seems to be the most popular database out there in hobby and  
open-source land; I've also used PostgreSQL (and DB2 and Oracle, for  
that matter, although the latter two aren't free) and could be  
persuaded to add support for these ... if people *really* want to  
interface Max/MSP to enterprise-level data stores.

HSQLDB can also run as a conventional server, but it's not that  
widely deployed as far as I can tell, and the embedded mode seems  
much more useful.

> HSQLDB can also run as a conventional server, but it's not that

> widely deployed as far as I can tell, and the embedded mode seems

I'll keep in mind your suggestion: HSQLDB in embedded mode and MySQL as a

I think the Max/MSP/Jitter programming environment really needed a series of

objects to build a "database narrative" (just to quote Lev Manovich's words)

On 6/19/06, Nick Rothwell  wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> HSQLDB can also run as a conventional server, but it's not that
> widely deployed as far as I can tell, and the embedded mode seems
> much more useful.

I'll keep in mind your suggestion: HSQLDB in embedded mode and MySQL as a
server.

I think the Max/MSP/Jitter programming environment really needed a series of
objects to build a "database narrative" (just to quote Lev Manovich's words)

Thank you again for your great solution
Marco


On 20 Jun 2006, at 12:23, Marco Lorenzin wrote:

> I think the Max/MSP/Jitter programming environment really needed a 

> series of objects to build a "database narrative" (just to quote 

I'm not quite sure what "database narrative" means...

I've been wondering how hard it would be to build a generic (-ish) 

graphical database access tool, rather like phpMyAdmin or some of the 

Java/Swing clients, in Max, perhaps using jit.cellblock for table 

> I think the Max/MSP/Jitter programming environment really needed a  
> series of objects to build a "database narrative" (just to quote  
> Lev Manovich's words)

I've been wondering how hard it would be to build a generic (-ish)  
graphical database access tool, rather like phpMyAdmin or some of the  
Java/Swing clients, in Max, perhaps using jit.cellblock for table  
display...

I recently stumbled across the web page of a seminar held in 1998, 

http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~culture/main.html

I found the topic really interesting, in particular the elaborations on 

database and spatialisation, as I have never thought of connecting the 

*DATABASE*. After the novel and later cinema privileged narrative as the 

key form of cultural expression of the modern age, the computer age 

brings with it a new form -- database. What are the origins, ideology 

and possible aesthetics of a database? How can we negotiate between a 

narrative and a database? Why is database imagination taking over at the 

*SPATIALISATION*. The overall trend of computer culture is to spatialise 

all representations and experiences. The library is replaced by 

cyberspace; narrative is equated with traveling through space ("Myst"); 

all kinds of data are rendered in three dimensions through computer 

visualization. Why is space being privileged? Shall we try to oppose 

this spatialisation (i.e., what about time in new media)? What are the 

different kinds of spaces possible in new media?

I believe he elaborated on this in Language of new media. I had only 

read the first few chapters from before, and haven't had the time yet to 

Thanks for sharing your work this way, Nick!

I recently stumbled across the web page of a seminar held in 1998, 
probably programmed by Lev Manovitch:

I found the topic really interesting, in particular the elaborations on 
database and spatialisation, as I have never thought of connecting the 
two this way before:

*DATABASE*. After the novel and later cinema privileged narrative as the 
key form of cultural expression of the modern age, the computer age 
brings with it a new form -- database. What are the origins, ideology 
and possible aesthetics of a database? How can we negotiate between a 
narrative and a database? Why is database imagination taking over at the 
end of the 20th century?

*SPATIALISATION*. The overall trend of computer culture is to spatialise 
all representations and experiences. The library is replaced by 
cyberspace; narrative is equated with traveling through space ("Myst"); 
all kinds of data are rendered in three dimensions through computer 
visualization. Why is space being privileged? Shall we try to oppose 
this spatialisation (i.e., what about time in new media)? What are the 
different kinds of spaces possible in new media?

I believe he elaborated on this in Language of new media. I had only 
read the first few chapters from before, and haven't had the time yet to 
go back reading the rest of it.

On 20 Jun 2006, at 14:32, Trond Lossius wrote:

> I found the topic really interesting, in particular the 

> elaborations on database and spatialisation, as I have never 

> thought of connecting the two this way before:

Of course, if anyone wants to develop some Jitter/3D OpenGL tools for 

visualising an SQL database, they now have all the tools they need.

> I found the topic really interesting, in particular the  
> elaborations on database and spatialisation, as I have never  
> thought of connecting the two this way before:

Of course, if anyone wants to develop some Jitter/3D OpenGL tools for  
visualising an SQL database, they now have all the tools they need.

> I recently stumbled across the web page of a seminar held in 1998,

Working with Andreas Kratky, Manovich has also released a DVD called "Soft

Cinema - Navigating the Database". This is an interesting attempt to turn

into images his ideas and concepts about cinema.

On 6/20/06, Trond Lossius  wrote:
>
> I recently stumbled across the web page of a seminar held in 1998,
> probably programmed by Lev Manovitch:
>
> http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~culture/main.html

Working with Andreas Kratky, Manovich has also released a DVD called "Soft
Cinema - Navigating the Database". This is an interesting attempt to turn
into images his ideas and concepts about cinema.

In my project, I'd need to store/read info in "something"

We can also discuss about that via emai, chat or skype :p

Dear Nick, how about performance ?
In my project, I'd need to store/read info in "something"
Naturally, I'm thinking about MySQL.

You've got a long memory, Julien: this discussion is four years old...

I can't really comment about performance without knowing at least something about your project. You should try it. I'd suggest, though, doing the SQL statement assembly in Jython rather than passing it through from Max - that way you get to use prepared statements properly and don't have injection problems (and don't have to drop into Java).

ANNOUNCE: MySQL access from loadbang.net MXJ library