Anyone here working with a Yamaha VL70-m?
I am building a GUI for the Yamaha VL70-m. Would be interested if anybody managed to get partial SysEx dumps from this synth. I would like to set my Max faders according to the hardware. Otherwise the application would be one-way only. Not bad, but two-way would be perfect.
First thing I tried is to get the current parameters of the reverb. I received different lengths of data with the same action. Maybe a buffer problem but MidiMonitor gets the whole bunch and there are no parameter values among. It is only visible that I am talking to the reverb.
I looked in this VL ONE70 Editor for the Mac if they have these settings there. But the effects tab is inactive. They have probably a reason for that … does it even work?
I’m a VL70m / WX5 user and currently I’m in the process of building a comprehensive visual editor / librarian for the VL70 using MAX.
I did analyse the SYEX dumpouts in great detail and got it all to work (sending /receiving / storing into the CUSTOM memory slots of the VL70 etc…).
Via Yamaha support I’m trying to obtain more technical documentation explaining the undocumented reserved parameters (element voices). Currently I’m reverse engineering the VL Expert Editor and the VL Visual Editor to get all the details on the SYSEX..
My real goal is to have a very visual way of doing indepth sound design with the powerful VL70m…
I’m a MAC user…and started developing with MAX since 2 Months….
If you still are interested then we maybe can team up to build a new VL70 Editor… give me sign..
hereby some screenshots ;-)
I’d be interested in helping out. I’ve got a VL70-m, and have built a few products in Max.
I got so excited to see that people are still interested in creating an editor for the VL70m that I logged in just to say that I also own one and that I find that this would be an amazingly useful project; I’ll be happy to help anyway I possibly can. I know little of Max programming but I’m fluent in other programming languages and I’ve collected several VL70m related stuff (editors, manuals and any other info I could find). I’d love to hop in for the ride.
Any chance this could end up being standalone?
Sorry Guys, was so busy with the new VL70m editor that I forgot to check the blog.
the good news is that I’m on target with my project. I did work non-stop since July (on top of my real job). Soon I’m starting to look for beta testers. Goal is to release by end-November a stand-alone beta test version.
This is the status;
– Full remote control of the VL70m, no need to touch the VL70m – DONE
– All parameter capabilities of the VL Expert editor in a nice graphical user interface (the dual breakpoint editor was a difficult challenge). – BUSY
– Import capabilities (.LIB) – BUSY
– Voice Library Management (with ability to score, comment, classify VL70m voices) – DONE
– Patchman Turbochip compatible – DONE
– Backup/restore of the full VL70m memory (system, custom, internal, current) – DONE
– Color/Theme management (Editor look and feel changes based on type of voice selected) – DONE
– Import/Export of 6 Custom Voices – DONE
– Import/Export of 64 Internal Voices (Varations on the Custom or Presets) – DONE
– Parent Child relation manager between the Custom and Internal Varations (Element voice).- DONE
– Visual overview of Editor Memory status using a intelligent progress bar – DONE
– Logging tool, to facilitate support issues – DONE
– Visual Template Voice Manager (similar to the Visual Editor of Yamaha) – BUSY
– Effect library Manager, (ability to extract/store/load voice effects)
– Effect Editor – TODO
– VL1 import capability – TODO (did do some tests but the tuning is a big challenge)
– Automated voice tuning – TODO (had to re-engineer the expert editor to find out how is is done)
spread the news…
Hereby the screen shorts… enjoy
Hey, those are great great news! I’m positive there will be people really excited about this (here and on other forums). I’d sure love to help beta test.
One silly question: is this standalone?
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Really, I’m another VL70m/WX5 user.
Ok so I reread that "standalone" part you already mention. So another possibly equally stupid question instead: will this run on Windows as well as Mac?
Have done a bit of dev for VL70 editor previously –
I think I may have some code from the VLOne Editor some where as well (though it is Forth)
You’ve reminded me to get back to my iPad VL70 controller . . .
Would be keen to have a look at your beta.
Glad to see these reactions. Hereby some answers and further info;
– I did invest already over 600hours work/study.
– My goal is to have a stand-alone product for MAC (a free & payed version).
– I’m not keen to release it for Windows because it requires a Runtime MAX + original Patchers.
– I have been in touch with prof.Bruno Degazio who kindly shared his iForth version of VL ONE70. I analysed and improved his initial VL1VL70 sysex mapping tables (1396 reserved system parameters).
Where can I use some advice / help?
– A way to globally enable/disable all tooltips (hints) in MAX.
– Somebody to write a nice user manual (so I can focus on the technical documentation).
– Somebody to create wallpapers for the different voice types (reed, brass, flute, guitar etc.)
– Somebody to design proper button images to replace these of the Visual Editor (Yamaha).
– A way to consolidate in a controlled manner the feedback of the beta-testers.
– Advice on how to make the beta versions available to the beta-testers.
keeping you informed
Overview of main patchers.
Color me dissapointed. Obviously I’m not a MAC user, so in order to be able to run this on Windows I’d need what? I have a previous edition of Max Runtime.
I’d be willing to help with the documentation if I can actually use this without having to buy a new computer.
I did some further investigations to see if I could extract the original patchers from the collective that is being generated for a Windows stand-alone app. The good news is that I could not find a way to get hold of the original patchers. With other words, a Windows Standalone version will be included in the scope.
Yay! You got yourself a helper for the manual.
Yeah I also got the code off Bruno – should try and find it and dig up/dust off my previous work. I was working on a iPad controller for the VL and have similarly invested substantial time . . .
I would probably be able to help out with a number of those other issues as I have skills in some of those areas, have done User Manuals for apps previously, some art skills etc
Can help with beta testing as I think I have a reasonable grasp of the VL70m ops. If you are only using a few beta testers it should not be too difficult to manage just via email (maybe setup a beta tester account to separate it from your usual email). There are services available that cover this as well – TestFlight though I think it is iOS only, and MacDeveloper spring to mind .. .
Hope to here from you and look forward to future exchanges . .
Great to hear such good news!
I haven’t been here for a while and well, my original question at the begin of this thread is almost 4 years old … I did not continue with my editor after 100+ hours. Got the parameters finally into Max, had some editor parts ready but one day had to say "no, this is not for my mothers son".
Can help with testing, provide a mailing list and/or a website if you need one, can check if the manual is understandable for non-native speakers and translate it to German if this is a plan.
Here: VL70-m with Patchman chip and (surprise!) a WX5 ;-)
also here in germany:
VL70m with patchman-chip and WX7..
Very interested in the editor (a reason to put the unit of of the shelve)
Klangschmied, my VL70m was also getting dusty. Believe me, you have a very powerful expressive sound module in house. Yahama did a pretty good job on the VL hardware. If they would have invested in better software then they would have had a success story with their VL. We will give the VL70m will get a second live.
Peter, welcome back and thanks for proposing your help. Our team is getting bigger. Maybe we need to consider a dedicated website to start promoting this project and building-up a list of VL owners. I want to get an idea on how many VL70m modules, PLG-150VL, VL1, VL7 are circulating and check if the VL users are willing to pay for such editor/librarian.
Peter & Macciza, Please let me know how deep did you go with your development of your editor. Did you include ALL ElementVoice parameters (eg. the reserved such as the Key Scale breakpoints?). What exactly was the scope of your project, what did you want to achieve?
About me: I’m from Belgium. I’m an Freelance ICT Director with as hobby sound design.
Equip: Technics WSA1, Clavia Nord Modular, VL70m+WX5, NI-Komplete, NI-Machine, LIVE etc..
> Peter & Macciza, Please let me know
> how deep did you go with your development
> of your editor.
I did not go very deep. Mine was rather a controller than an editor. Apart from loading programs I could read reverb parameters into Max and control them. Did not go further with effects. I think I stopped shortly after I started to control the effects routing. I never planned to go into voice editing because the goal was to get a controller for playing, with a couple of selected parameters per voice on a foot controller.
Peter, OK…your experience for handling the Effects of the VL70m might become useful during testing phase. As I mentioned, the Editor allows to extract and effect tables from VL Voices and store them into a library for use with other voices.
Little update for all, this weekend I focused on resolving errors caused during the generation of a standalone version, improving the max-logging mechanism (see attachment), improving the full-refresh data transfer, improving Error handling. I’m now able to generate an error free standalone. I hope to find time this week to start preparing our first VL Beta test package.
Have a look to the attached Log. You will see that I succeeded to have a FULL data refresh between the Editor and VL70m in about 25 secs…(full= entire VL70m CURR/CUST/INT/SYS).
another VL70-m/WX5 user here. Many years ago I made adaptations for Apple (Emagic back then) SoundDiver for the VL series. Although making a SoundDiver adaptation is possibly the easiest way to create an editor/librarian program, it took me a few weeks, or was it months? (usually an adaption for a run-of-the-mill synth is done in a day or two). So many parameters, and a really quirky Sysex implementation. Hats off to imoxplus!
I’d love to try that editor for the VL70-m. The SoundDiver VL adaptation isn’t really useful for several reasons. It’s long ago, but maybe I can help with some of the VL70-m’s quirks? One thing I remember for instance are the keyboard scaling parameters. You have to transmit a whole set of them (i.e. all breakpoint notes and all breakpoint offsets for a parameter), otherwise the VL70-m won’t accept them.
Welcome on board. So, you are the guy behind the Sounddiver VL. Actually you did a pretty good job, but as you said, the VL70-m is a strange beast, therefore I selected MAX/MSP to get the beast under control and I think I’m getting very close…
The key scale breakpoint management module is as good as finished. I will include this part already in the beta release. It was one of my biggest challenges as because the VL is using different types of breakpoint scales MIN/MAX, MSB/LSB, Single Byte, etc.. Question: where did you get the details on the different Element SYSEX parameters?, also via Bruno?
One thing I still have to do is to find an easy way to visualise curve settings using a Y/X graph the same way as the VL70 is doing, eg. PressureCtrlDeph / PressureCrtlCurve. Ideas on that are welcome…
I guess I was looking towards a product to replace Degazios editor as it got increasingly harder to keep a version/machine running it. This was more than a few years ago. Similarly chased up Bruno and got the code off him, though I am not sure what disk it is on now. Got through proof of concept and had data flow and editing happening from memory though did not continue at the time for variety of reasons, (changes in platforms, hardware, time etc)
More recently did a bit of work on an iPad interface that would allow one to program from there rather than the front panel of the device, and would also work as a live controller of various features, pgm change, effect levels etc Probably should dig that one up as well and do a bit more. . .
Musically I use my VL with a hyper-midi-guitar setup with some extra onboard controllers and either BC3, Foot Controller or velocity as input – love the organicness of the wind sounds but also enjoy virtual synth stuff as well
For the ‘curves’ visuals – have a look at the ‘function’ object and setcurve msg for it . . .
Also did you get the Annotations suggestion for a better way of dealing with hints from that other thread . ..
I hope MAX/MSP will allow portability of the new VL editor so we do not get stuck with the evolution of the MAC and WIN OS.
No need for the code of Bruno, have it… Will used it to study the pipe length recalculation.
Your iPad expertise might become useful if we will extend the Editor to function as live controller. But this is a lower priority for now, first I want the hard stuff done.
Nice setup you have… Yep, the VL is an expressive module.. I hope the editor will result in a new wave of sound development for the VL70m. From very realistic simulations to unheard sounds.
Will have a look as the function object…., please point me to "that other thread for dealing with the Hints"…
I might grab a copy of his code of you if I can’t find mine . . .
I will be continuing with the VL-LiveController as it is handy to be able to tweak stuff in a live situation sometimes . …
An old very rough video of some saxy blues guitar
Toggle hint thread – http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/toggle-hint/
Looking forward to seeing what you’ve come up with . ..
Hey MM, seeing your video motivates me even more to get the Editor finished…
maybe the others have also a little video to show what they do with their VL.
OK, got the picture on the Hints vs Annotation..
Question: where did you get the details on the different Element SYSEX parameters?, also via Bruno?
It was on the Internet back then. This was long before Bruno’s VL170. I believe it was a group effort of the Wind Controller mailing list. Some guys created a VL70-m expert editor for Windows.
visualise curve settings using a Y/X graph the same way as the VL70 is doing
Do you know Apple’s Mainstage? You can set up curves similar to those on the VL70-m display, and with MIDI live input a small dot moves along the curve so you can see where you are. Very handy.
About the Element Sysex parameter list
I will publish an updated VL70-m sysex list together with the release of the editor.
About the X/Y curves
I’m currently using the Function Object to handle the curves of the KeyScale Breakpoints and will try to use similar approach to handle the X/Y curves of other parameters.
Have found my resource material, and gained some new stuff, though not found much else . . .
Am certainly well placed to be able to resume development of a Lemur-based editor and to provide good beta analysis . . .
I’ve completed the Template Manager (see attachment) and the Library Import Manager (.LIB and .ALL). Additionally I did improve the menu system. With other words, the librarian part of the VL Wizard is as good as finished.
Now I will shift my focus on the Editor part = building the actual parameter editing screens (Modifiers, Envelops, Elements, etc..)… this should not eat too much time as because I made an underlaying engine that dynamically handles VL70m parameters by using the Hoover & AutoPattr & PVar object. A clever trick to avoid endless connections between Inlets/Outlets.
I’m still targeting for end November but it is getting sharp.
Looking good, minor typo with Envelops tab?
I’ve done a bunch of work on Lemur establishing communications and getting/ setting data etc, and a bit of experimentation working on different ways of presenting data for editing – still undecided on a number of things to do with all this . . .
Also looking at various patch selection methods – full grids vs windowed menus, implementation options for the standard MIDI CC controllers that it responds to and a other features that are aimed more at being a live remote controller for VL, tweaking FX etc
Time for a little update
All main parameters are implemented, including the EFFECTS, EQUALIZER, CONTROLLERS.
The implementation of the effects took longer then anticipated due to the large amount of parameters. The solution works fine but I’m not happy with it because it eats too much resources and start-up time. I have already some ideas to improve it..So, this will be a rework for phase II.
I’m very pleased about the way I solved the EQUALIZER and CONTROLLERS..
attached some screens.
Probably 2 extra weeks required before I can release a Beta Test Version,
Guys, I need some help
During the testing I found out that MAX is crashing on Window7 when reading a "large" size file into a Coll object, eg. reading a file of 437K (VL70m template voices).
What is the actual limitation of a COLL object? How to overcome these limitations?
I do NOT have this issue on my MAC, even when loading up to 1.1Mb.
Maybe some of you can try to read the attached file into a Coll and see if it also crashes MAX.
Some guidance is welcome..
I found the root cause but not yet the solution. -> The issue is that the Coll object causes MAX to crash when the length of a record is >1500 bytes.
I need to find a solution to go above this limit…
The bug related to the [coll] object has been confirmed by the Cycling’74 support engineers.
I replaced certain [coll] objects that cause problems by a [dict] object but I can not replace all of them without some serious redesign of the VL70m editor.
Unfortunately this all slows down the Beta release.
I hope the Cycling’74 engineers find a solution to overcome the reported bug.
Hope you don’t give up on the Windows7 version man.
No, WIN7 is still in scope… do not worry…
WOW!!!!!!! I am THRILLED beyond words you are making VL70-m deep editing software for Windows. I have wanted this for many years. I recently bought an old iMac G3 and have been straining my poor old eyes to see to edit but it rough. Not to mention that I am not a mac user. Anyway, I just had to sign up here to post and say thank you soooooooo much! I will be ready to purchase as soon as it’s available for sale. I’ve edited my voices on my VL70-m since 2005 with just what is available on the unit itself. Granted it’s quite extensive but there are SO Many more parameters I’d love to tweak. Thanks again!!!!!!! Will be following this thread anxiously!
Hi Eddie, great to see you joining us.
The WX5 skins you are making are looking very cool. Nice concept. I did listen to some of your MP3’s. Oh boy, you control your WX5 very very well, I wish I had your level of playing techniques.
The VL70-m Wizard is an advanced Editor but also a voice Librarian tool and Effect manager. During last two weeks I’ve invested a considerable time on voice Design / Debugging. I still do not understand why YAMAHA never spend more time on a solid Editing software, the VL70m surprises me everyday in terms of how realistic and expressive it can get. Once you understand the impact of the advanced parameters you can get into fantastic new voices.
I’m very close towards releasing a Beta Version. Hitting now over 1200 works development/test hours…
Question for you: Are you a MAX/MSP user?, Will you join the Beta Testing effort or wait till an official Release is ready?
Will reply more in a few days. I think I have the flu. Temp is 103. Going to hospital. I don’t know what MAX/MSP is. I’m interested though for sure.
Yes, it was/is the flu. I thought I had the flu before but I guess I had not. Man, that was BAD! I’m now on prescription Tamiflu and beginning to feel human again. I am VERY interested in helping with the testing. I just, forgive me, don’t have a clue what MAX/MSP is! I make all my recordings with an old version of Cool Edit Pro (now Adobe Audition) and use a few other app’s like Audacity, Sibelius, Photoscore. I use VL Librarian to backup my VL70-m settings and VLEditor to load custom voices (Windlist, factory voices, etc…). I have anew keyboard as well but haven’t learned much about it. It’s a Korg Pa900. My audio interface is an M-Audio Mobile Pre USB which is rock solid and I LOVE! Before that I had tried several interfaces that crashed a lot and so I had stuck with an ancient Creative PCI-512 for many years due to it’s superb input/output level controls and simple 2 channel Right/Left In/Out setup. The newer "fancy" surround sound cards just never interested me.
My sound system is a hodge podge of old equipment. I have 3 Yamaha A-77X Power Amps. as well as 1 A-88X. I use the A-77’s to drive my old Onkyo’s D7RX’s speakers I bought in Okinawa in 1985. SUPERB speakers that I had new surrounds professionaly replaced on a few years back, along with a couple other sets of various speakers. The A-88X drives a set of series II Bose 901’s (with EQ) that are like new due to their cloth surrounds. LOVE my Bose and my Onkyo’s. Anyway, that’s a little about my setup. A 4 channel mixer, Alesis Wedge Reverb, Yamaha EQ, Technics programmable EQ, MXL R40 ribbon mic for recording my saxes. Oh, I also have an 88 key Yamaha DGX keyboard I use as well, and I can’t forget to mention my Yamaha EZ-EG midi guitar which is great for adding strumming guitar.
Eddie, yep, a flu can hit you hard.
No need to learn or get hold of MAX/MSP. I just wanted to check what kind of "user" you are. The beta version of my tool will be released as stand-alone executable for MAC and WIN environments. So, you will be able to join the testing team.
Thanks for the overview on your equipment. An important component is the Sound/Midi interface. A high amount of data is transferred back-and-forward between the VL and the editor. Some Midi interfaces I tested are not able to handle this.
The Editor has also the ability to backup/restore your custom voices. Additionally there are capabilities to import .LIB and .ALL libraries (from the VL70m). And, I have build the foundation to importing and convert VL1m libraries, but this is stuff for later releases.
"And, I have build the foundation to importing and convert VL1m libraries, but this is stuff for later releases."
That is huge!!!
I connect the VL70-m to my computer via the "to host" port with a serial cable when using my main computer. It is older and has a serial port. I also connect using a Yamaha UX-16 when I’m using my laptop via USB. When I’m playing my WX5 I use a wireless MidiJet Pro :)
Patroler, Yes, the VL1toVL70m convertor is the real thing but let’s go step by step. First I will focus on stabilising the VL70m wizard then I will include the convertor capabilities……
Eddie, it will be interesting to see how my tool deals with your midi host connection setup on an "older" computer. The UX16 should be OK. I’m successfully exchanging data at DumpIntervals of 50 but the tool can be setup to deal with slower SYSEX Dumps.
Emulating wind instruments, primarily trumpet, is essentially what I do with the VL70-m. I am constantly trying to make it sound more authentic. I think of it as three primary elements. 1 – WX5. 2 – VL70-m. 3 – external sound equipment. Then of course each of those elements has a myriad of edits/adjustments/configurations. I still have the very first recording I made with my WX5/VL70-m from 2005. ha ha It is so BAD! I never let anyone hear that!
Just loaded my Christmas tunes for 2013 – they’re played with my latest my trumpet voice which to me is known as "Etrumpet21". This Februay will mark 9 years and there have been a lot more than 21 trumpet versions. That’s just the current Internal bank slot my latest trumpet happens to be located! ha ha
…near the top marked Christmas 2013.
Oh, since you like to know system info, well, mine’s pretty old I guess by current standards although I’m hoping to upgrade pretty soon. As of today I have a Pentium 4 CPU 3.20 GHz – 2 Gigs RAM – XP Pro Service Pack 3.
Some new screenshots
– I did add the ability set attributes for a voice (instrument classification, instrument name, author, comments, thumbnail).
– Effect Manager is now rock-solid and is a separate window with direct access to the Library.
– Keyscale manager has been improved.
– The navigation of the parameter screen does now allow horizontally scrolling between different sets of parameters. This does highly facility the sound design workflow..
Now I’m killing some final bugs and will tryout tools for automated software installation. My best estimate for releasing the beta test version is mid-january 2014.
a happy year-end for all of you…
Looking great! Hope my old system will run it! ha ha
Happy new-year to you all
I’m pleased to announce that as of next week I will start distributing the Standalone Beta 1.1.0 version of the VL70-m Wizard to each of you. Starting first with the MAC users, then with Windows users.
How to obtain your Beta version and participate in the testing?
Simply send a mail to VL70m@IMOXPLUS.NET
Please indicate as many details you have in terms of configuration eg. PC (32bit or 63bit) or MAC hardware, kind MIDI interface, how you are using your VL70m, turbo chip installed yes/no, kind of breath controller, are you a musician or a sound designer etc.. I will respond back in the during end of next week with a mail containing a private link to the installation package.
Limitation of the Beta/Demo Version:
The VL70-m Wizard Beta / Demo version has all features but has a 20" timeout protection, with other words, the tool becomes locked after the timeout is passed. You can restart the tool as many times as you want. A visual counter in the upper left corner shows the timeout status, so you can save your work prior to the timeout. The payed version will not have this constraint.
Your benefits as Beta Tester;
As Beta tester and active project participant you receive following advantages.
– reduction on the purchase price of the final version.
– participation in the Wishlist.
– your name will be mentioned (if you want so) in the "about" section of the tool.
I hope you understand that I’m expecting constructive feedback and patience in case of bugs. Bugs have to be reported via the above mentioned mail address.
About new voices;
I also would appreciate that all new voices that you are creating with this tool are shared with me so that I can include in the final version a library of fresh new voices for the VL70m.
Based on common questions I will start writing instructions on how to use the tool or make little youtube videos. Ofcourse your help in documenting the usage of this advanced tool is very welcome.
Usage questions can be raised via this forum. So, other Beta Testers can follow & learn.
The tool does change its GUI theme based on the classification of the current voice. This is done to avoid tired eyes when designing voices. It would be great to have one of you spending some time on designing cool wallpapers that are unique so I do not risk issues with royalties.
looking forward to active participation in the testing
Excellent news Imoxplus. Any estimated price by the way?
Just emailed you.
Happy new year,
Hereby an example of the revamped Effect Settings Manager.
The Effect system / insert routing is now visual and interactive. Wiring and available parameters to change according to the selected routing mode.
The Effect library is now present as a side panel that fades in/out the screen when clicking the right side bar.
I did finalise the Beta 1.1.O distribution packages for Standalone installations of the Wizard.
It took a bit longer as because I did invest some extra development to enhance the SysEx engine such way that it can deal with fast and slow PCs.(e.g., it works on PCs with Intel Atom processor).
Now I will prepare some basic instructions on how to quickly configure the tool. Once this is done I will provide the private install links to the people who subscribed to participate in the beta testing effort.
Private links have been distributed. I’m still looking for a WIN64x Beta tester. Candidates?
Important Update: based on first feedback from Beta Testers
1) Before installing the Wizard, ensure your VL70m can receive SYSEX
On the VL70m panel, press UTIL→SYSTEM→RcvSysExcl = on
2) The following screens have no red close button: Settings, Theme, Effects, Templates, Keyscale Editor. They can only be minimised. I will see how to improve this as part of the second release.
I’m finalizing a Beta 1.1.02. This version is very robust.
– several bugs are resolved
– faster startup, improved usability
– improved file handling, now with direct access to voices, libraries and effects on disk
– improved voice attribute management
– GUI navigation has been simplified, now with central dashboard.
– new image catalogue for assigning thumbnails to voices.
– further improvements to the sysex engine
Beta testers will be informed via individual mail when they can be download.
Question to all, I’m looking for a nice product logo. I welcome your proposals. The best logo will be used for the VL70m wizard and your name will be added into the credits section.
After many attempts I finally found a nice way to visualise the VL70m architecture. You can now see what kind of powerful synth the VL70m really is about.
ALL parameters you see on this blueprint are editable via the wizard. I just need to add some extra ‘global’ parameters like tone control etc…
This panel will be used to get fast access to the advanced parameters. This way you maintain the total picture when doing sound design…
New here, just registered.
This looks very exciting indeed! (I’ve tried sounddiver and soundquest previously and the work flow was VERY sluggish and unintuitive)
IMOXPLUS, can I please help with the Beta testing? I’m running Ableton and Cubase on a win 7, 64bit system.
I was about to sell my beloved VL70-m and found out about this post.. It would be great to "breath" in new life into this magic box!
It has been quiet for a while. As result of the Beta testing I came to the conclusion that it is better to rework the entire VL70-m. Following key lessons came out of the Beta testing;
– High demand for PLG150-VL plug-in board XG-VL compatibility (by EX5 and MU128 users),
– Too many features causing confusion,
– Need for standard file formats (.syx and .mid) to allow import into DAW -Midi Sequencers,
– Need for much faster startup,
– Need for higher compatibility between MAX and WIN users (including XP users),
– Need for solid user manual.
So, I did start to rebuild the VL Editor and think I will need about 2-3 months. Hope you can all wait that long ;-)
PS: I received confirmation of Mr. Toshi Kunimoto from YAMAHA (the brain behind the VL technology) to do reverse engineering on the VL-Expert Editor and Visual Editor… I also figured out that ALL "reserved" VL ELEMENT VOICE sysex parameters are documented in the EX5E2 manual (see table 7 page 48/49).
Finally retired (hence the username) and have time to resurrect my WX5 and VL70-M. Going back through the learning curve is tough. I am so happy to see that the product is still being used and so grateful that you are developing an interface. Can’t wait to see it. Thanks for all your effort!!!
Hi All, as mentioned before, I’m in the progress of rebuilding the VL-Wizard from scratch. Hereby the status of what is completed;
– Compatibility for XP/WIN7-8/MAC. (settings manager)
– Fast sysex Manager / Engine (VL70m and PLGVL compatible). Send & Receive Current Voice Dump-Outs. (PLGVL can only receive).
– Resizable user-interface + Fullscreen mode. Unfortunately due to a MAX-bug, the Windows version will only allow Maximize & Fullscreen mode.
– Advanced and fast VL-Library Manager
– Ability to define tags / comments / image for each VL voice).
– Ability to search for voices.
– Import .ALL and .LIB voices (should also be able to import Pathman library files).
– Automatically categorise voices based on voice name (eg. if a voice name contains "Trp" then the wizard will put this under the BRASS category).
– Voice Template manager is embedded into the Library manager.
– Voices are individually stored in SYSEX format (tag data is added to the tail of the sysex string).
– About organised 600 VL voices are included. (these voices are standard Yamaha voices, extracts from Visual Editor, BestOfWeb.lib etc.)
Now I will start rebuilding the Advanced Parameter Editor.
If wanted, I can prepare a TEST version for those who want to test already the VL Library Manager functionality. Just send a mail VL70M@IMOXPLUS.NET
- This reply was modified 1 year by imoxplus.
Would love to help in any way possible. Owner of an EX5R, 2 VL70m’s, a WX5, and a custom designed guitar/wind controller with a Ztar fingerboard/CPU, that I have gigged with for 15 years. Also a MAX/MSP user, and Sound Design teacher at one of those universities. Many, many, thanks from someone who still depends on his VL tools every day.
I just registered after seeing this topic. This looks very interesting.
I’ve a Yamaha n12 Digital Mixing Studio connected via Firewire to a Yamaha Motif XF8 and a Yamaha Motif-Rack XS.
Regarding wind controllers/modules I’ve a Yamaha VL1, Yamaha VL70-m with Patchman chip, 2x Yamaha VL70-m with original Yamaha chip, 2x Yamaha WX5 (one in recorder fingering setting and one in sax fingering setting), Yamaha BC1 and BC3.
Further a Neumann Studio Microphone TLM 49, Sennheiser HD 650 headphone, Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250 Ohms, Cubase 7 DAW.
Actually, I’ve just started to gather this equipment set in the last 2 years and I’m still learning all the ins and outs of all. It’s a long learning curve, but I like this stuff.
I like the new images. How is the Advanced Parameter Editor going?
Hereby some previews of what the next beta will contain…(subject to changes).
It is a hell of a job to get all these parameters organised in a clear GUI.
I also got hold of a G4 and installed the very first expert editor on it…So, I’m now able to get a bit deeper into the reverse engineering of the expert editor software..
As of mid-september I will to continue with the advanced parameter editor part…
many thanks for all the support..
Hi, I’m an Italian keyboard player and I nave a Yamaha VL70m and a Yamaha Motif ES7 with two PLG150VL board that I play with a BC3 breath controller. I’m interested in your editor/librarian Wizard software for Windows. I can collaborate to the project like beta tester. Are there news about the software ? How I can have it ? Thank you and cheers from Italy ;-)
Since a week I’m again spending all my free-time on further developing the Advanced Editing module of the VL-Wizard and I do make good progress. I’m re-engineering now the original VL70m-Expert Editor working on a G4 PowerPC (see screenshot) and try to replicate a maximum of it’s behavior.
Particularly the way how the key-scaling and breakpoint functionality works is interesting to see. It is a hell of a job to rebuild this functionality due to it complexity eg. Min/Max keyscales levels that go from 0 to 1020 for 12 breakpoints.
Additionally I succeeded to convert about 300 original VL1 voices towards the VL70m format. So, the VL-Wizard library does now include around 900 voices freely found on the internet (These voices are untouched = not manipulated yet with the VL-Wizard). I love the sound of the BUSCHMAN voices, they are so real.
Please be patient, the new VL-Expert editor will become a reality…that is for sure…
IMPORTANT: would be great if somebody knows in what language the original VL70m expert editor was written…
Yes, I did rewrite the KEYSCALE/BREAKPOINT editor from scratch to reflect 99% the original Expert editor Breakpoint functionality.
This is included;
– dynamically adjust scaling based on selected parameter.
– various ways of editing the key scale / breakpoint values.
– visualisation of the MIN/MAX levels.
This is one of the most development complex parts of the VL-Wizard. Now I will focus on all the other advanced (VL element) parameters
The project is for about 75% completed now.
IMOXPLUS / Rudy
Hello IMOXPLUS and a happy 2015 to you!
Would you be so kind as to check the YT video again, it doesn’t seem to have any sound.
Is the project still happening as a standalone for Windows 7?
I’m extremely interested to see the results!
The YT video recording was done without sound…it was just to show the screens…future videos will be with sound etc..
Yes, as promised, my goal is to maintain compatibility between MAC and WIN versions.
As a new-years gift, a link to the VL sounds I collected from the internet (about 900)
There is nothing included that relates to the Patchman voices. This archive also contains voices I converted from VL1 libraries. All voices are not edited with the VL-Wizard, they are like they are…some work well, some don’t..you will need a sysex tool to transfer them to the temporary memory slot (CURRENT) of your VL70m. I use the http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/ (MAC) it is free and rock solid.
Hereby a link to a small video giving a first impression of the VL-Wizard Beta2.
This looks very promising! Can’t wait to try it :-)
Also a big thanks for the huge VL voices collection.
Just to inform you that I do have a breakthrough on the complex tuning of the VL70m. I finally figured out how to manually tune each of the 128 notes -> Tuning/PipeLength (=pitch) and Derivative. The auto-tuning process is still under research, not sure if I ever will nail this down…future will tell…
Hereby the screenshot of the VL-Wizard Tuning functionality…It took me a while to get the autotuning of the VL70m under control but it is working now…..The tuning functionality (one-key, autotuning and scale tuning) will be included in the upcoming beta/demo. It it important to read the document of Manny Fernadez (=great document) in order to get a deep insight in the tuning engine.
Any link for the aforementioned document?
Hereby the link to the VL-voice design tutorial of Manny…http://www.patchmanmusic.com/VLProgrammingGuide.html
Manny was one of the voice designers on the Yamaha VL Project… his document inspired me to start building the VL-Wizard…
Sincere Thanks for all your work to help keep this synthesizer relevant. They are the heart and soul of my rig, and the more we create a critical mass around this synth, the more we all benefit. Great work (and patience), and thanks for the vl patches.
Just to let you know that I’m close to a commercial release of the VL-Wizard (yes, this is not a joke)… Goal : end of 2015…
Much effort did go into making the VL-Wizard multi-part (poly) compatible. Up to 8 VL units can be handled…
Also good new is that I soon will become owner of a VL1m . So, next year a VL1m Editor will be developed..this will have a shorter development cycle as because I went to all the learnings with the VL-Wizard.
Stay inform via http://vl70m-wizard.blogspot.be/ or drop me a mail…
Thanks so much for this blog and your efforts. I am a sax player of 40 years and have basically converted to eSax for the past year for all my on-stage gigs. I am continually looking for ways of achieving more realistic expressions and sax tonality with my rig. The rig consists of an EWI400s, VL70-m with patchmans turbo, and XV-2020 with patchmans updates. I run these through a simple Shure P4M mixer and connect the EWI with the Panda Audio midibeam which has worked quite well and is nice and small.
So, I’ve got blended sounds by combining the best of the VL and XV. I’m mostly a Tenor player and I love the sounds of the patches in the lower octave. However, at the upper end of the Tenor normal range, and then into the altissimo range, I find that the sounds lack depth and expressiveness. This has me motivated to establish an editor environment to see if I can make improvements for my own playing style and preferences.
Your "new" editor (in the making for the past 2+ years), looks like just what the doctor ordered. I just downloaded the Demo version and will probably soon upgrade to a paid version. (which I am happy to pay for) I will do so as soon as I figure out how to easily connect the VL in my gig rig to my PC without having to take the rack unit apart. (its all very packed into a 2U high road case with closed rear access)
One area that I’m a bit confused about is what actually runs on the PC vs what runs in the VL. Can you explain just a bit about this? Are all the edits and adjustments on the PC app applied in real-time to the controllers in the VL itself? (I guess that’s how it would have to work, but would like confirmation)
Thanks for the kind words and introducing yourself via this blog….Maybe better to ask these kind questions via the VL-Wizard forum or helpdesk. This way other VL-Wizard users can benefit from it…
To respond to your questions.
How to connect the VL-Wizard ? please refer to FAQ http://www.vl70m-editor.com/HelpDesk/kb/faq.php?id=15 if not clear then drop me a mail or create a ticket…
What runs on the PC vs VL?
Actually nothing special has to run on your VL. The VL-wizard is using all standard features of the VL70m and is fully compatible with the VL70m containing a turbochip or Windlist.
All brainwork happens on the computer. The VL-Wizard loads a patch from its library and stores this into its editing memory, while doing this it also sends all data via sysex instructions into the CURRENT voice memory of your VL70m (this is 1808 bytes, so you need a good midi interface).
This CURRENT voice memory is the editing memory of your VL70m. Once the editing memory of both the VL-Wizard and VL70m are "synchronised" the fun can start. The VL-Wizard will then send in realtime each parameter change over into the VL70m CURRENT memory. This has the great advantage that you hear immediately the impact of the tweaking you are doing…you can actually observe this by navigating to the VL70m controllers section (edit->controllers) and then adjust the corresponding parameter on the VL-Wizard..You will then see the VL70m react immediately…..so, you can take full control over your VL70m without even have to touch it…once you are happy with the tweaked voice you can store this back into the VL-Wizard library and also store it into the CUSTOM/INTERNAL bank of your VL70m (both "store" features are not available in DEMO mode).
More information on this and Turbochip VL70m units is available in the FAQ’s
Also check out my first Video tutorial where I do a general walkthrough on the VL-Wizard.
hope this clarifies.
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