gamuso

when you quantize a midi clip in ableton live (let´s say 1/8), it will automatically place out of tempo played notes to the nearest specified beat on the grid. ok

why don´t do that with an audio live recording on the fly? it can´t be so difficult... (well, I would not be able to do it by my self).

so this device should detect the highest peak in each beat to place them "on time" in the specified grid to the nearest quantized tempo beat. I suppose that adding a little of time stretching live capability...

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audio-loop-quantized-on-the-fly-is-it-possible

midi is much simpler, a single value, audio is a stream of sampled data which must be read in a certain direction at a certain rate. detection would require comprehensive analysis to find an appropriate silent place to cut, in order to include all of the attack portion, plus something that would detect the proper overall and complete envelopes of sounds, and then separately to move the highest portion of the attack according to the quantization grid. then, you also need a windowing scheme to account for interruptions in the signal data along with some way to account for any silence needed to space things out to the grid.

it has been done before in supercollider via the bbcut library by nick collins:

http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/nc81/bbcut2.html

http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/nc81/code.html

http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/nc81/

he refers to it as "Real Time Onset Detection".

if you're eager to use something like this in Max, there is a VST developed around parts of the BBCut library called LiveCut:

But LiveCut i think simply cuts according to your DAW's tempo sync and certain procedures(see description). I don't think it does the full onset-detection, but it will sound like it if you play rhythmic to the tempo at which it is synced(your DAW or Max's transport tempo).

If you want more than BBCut(in SuperCollider) or the LiveCut VST, it's probably something you'd want to code an external for, perhaps even translate the BBCut source code(classes) into Max external(s).

I'm not saying that something much simpler couldn't be achieved in Max alone, just that Nick there really hit the mark with some extensive research and work.

difficulty is relative.
midi is much simpler, a single value, audio is a stream of sampled data which must be read in a certain direction at a certain rate. detection would require comprehensive analysis to find an appropriate silent place to cut, in order to include all of the attack portion, plus something that would detect the proper overall and complete envelopes of sounds, and then separately to move the highest portion of the attack according to the quantization grid. then, you also need a windowing scheme to account for interruptions in the signal data along with some way to account for any silence needed to space things out to the grid.

it has been done before in supercollider via the bbcut library by nick collins:
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/nc81/bbcut2.html

check out his other stuff, too:
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/nc81/code.html

if you're eager to use something like this in Max, there is a VST developed around parts of the BBCut library called LiveCut:
http://mdsp.smartelectronix.com/livecut/
But LiveCut i think simply cuts according to your DAW's tempo sync and certain procedures(see description). I don't think it does the full onset-detection, but it will sound like it if you play rhythmic to the tempo at which it is synced(your DAW or Max's transport tempo).

I´m just thinking about a simple maxforlive device.

if you record an audio with a strong and marked rhythm, and a couple of beats are out of tempo, you can easy move the warp markers to make it sound synced.

a maxforlive device detecting the maximum amplitude parts of a live recording and taking them to the nearest quantized beat automatically.

it sounds simple... I´m sure it has to be done before.

anyway thanks a lot raja for your so well documented reply,

I´ve tryed livecut, but it is not what I was looking for.

I´m not into supercollider, waw! it took me lots of months get into max/msp... I´m not skilled with programming, so it scares me to start with another enviroment...

so what about a maxforlive device detecting the maximum amplitude parts of a live recording and taking them to the nearest quantized beat automatically. 

but can you control the warp markers within a max4live device?

I think that's the main problem in implementing what you have in mind.

but can you control the warp markers within a max4live device? 

I think that's the main problem in implementing what you have in mind.


well, warp markers or a simple audio stretch (without changing the pitch) in a audio looping device... it would be meant just for small changes to fit a given rhythm. you are suppose to have some accuracy!

i don´t think this is difficult to accomplish (well, for me it is). it´s just a matter of time.

c`mon!! i know there must be a max.for.live patch able to do this. no?

there's an ipad app that makes the work very well, it's called "yellofier". you simply record a rhythmic live audio, the app detects the wider parts of the waveform, and it slices it automatically, setting the starting points right where the strong beat is. then you place these slices in a little sequencer, or trigger them using a little pads.

it would be lovely to see something like this for max/ableton.

anyone knows about something similar?? it's been more than 4 years since i came out with this?? omg

c`mon!! i know there must be a max.for.live patch able to do this. no?
there's an ipad app that makes the work very well, it's called "yellofier". you simply record a rhythmic live audio, the app detects the wider parts of the waveform, and it slices it automatically, setting the starting points right where the strong beat is. then you place these slices in a little sequencer, or trigger them using a little pads.

it would be lovely to see something like this for max/ableton. 

anyone knows about something similar?? it's been more than 4 years since i came out with this?? omg
thanks


Have you actually had a go at making this?

Or do you plan to wait for it to fall out of the sky?

Have you actually had a go at making this? 

Or do you plan to wait for it to fall out of the sky?


i am a musician. even if i did a lot of projects using max, at some point i had to admit i should focus more on the music itself, otherwise i would collapse.

i could spend 3 weeks from a 4 weeks rehearsal period just building the max/msp patch i was going to use for a concert.

i can barely make a division or multiply. i didn¡t even get the basic school grade.

i surrendered. i could not do this thing, i don't have the skills. i know other people do, i am just trying to encourage them.

yes, somedays i look to the sky... from hell

tu tu tummm tu tu pa paaaa tus tus tusssss ta ta ta ti to oooooooo... zas1

i am a musician. even if i did a lot of projects using max, at some point i had to admit i should focus more on the music itself, otherwise i would collapse. 

i could spend 3 weeks from a 4 weeks rehearsal period just building the max/msp patch i was going to use for a concert.
that was wrong.
music was gone by then.
i can barely make a division or multiply. i didn¡t even get the basic school grade. 

tu tu tummm tu tu pa paaaa tus tus tusssss ta ta ta ti to oooooooo... zas1


I think since you want to control warp markers in a clip, we would need some kind of control in max for live that we currently don't. Eg a set warp marker , move warp marker type functions.

To do this just in max you could use a buffer but then we'd need something like elastic pro object to time warp. Is not that easy

And it's preferable to do it with warp markers

What is lacking at present? Is it the hassle of using keyboard and mouse to move things?

I think since you want to control warp markers in a clip, we would need some kind of control in max for live that we currently don't. Eg a set warp marker , move warp marker type functions.
To do this just in max you could use a buffer but then we'd need something like elastic pro object to time warp. Is not that easy
And it's preferable to do it with warp markers 

What is lacking at present? Is it the hassle of using keyboard and mouse to move things?


Hi, my apologies for not mentioning this earlier, but there was a detonate-based example which allowed you to use recycle format midi files for beat markers(which you could use for additional warp/stretch). Somewhere in examples folder(not at comp right now).

This would be another way to do it(if you have acces to recycle files and creation/mod thereof).

But ya: we're ALL 'musicians' here(that word has no relevance anymore) so I too am too busy(making software and then playing it like an instrument) to be the one who would rain it from the sky ;D

Hi, my apologies for not mentioning this earlier, but there was a detonate-based example which allowed you to use recycle format midi files for beat markers(which you could use for additional warp/stretch). Somewhere in examples folder(not at comp right now).
This would be another way to do it(if you have acces to recycle files and creation/mod thereof).

But ya: we're ALL 'musicians' here(that word has no relevance anymore) so I too am too busy(making software and then playing it like an instrument) to be the one who would rain it from the sky ;D


@venetian i think it's not necessary to "warping", it's only to set automatically an start point (right where the hard beat is) and an end point (before next beat).

i want to use it for live looping. to be able to record different percussive sounds, not necessarily in tempo, and then be able to manipulate them instantly triggering them with midi, without having to adjust manually each marker to put it right where the sound starts.

@Raja_The_Resident_Asswipe since i am meaning this thing for live sampling/looping, i don't know if this technique you mention would work. and yes, you are right, we are all with the same concerns. how much time we dedicate to prepare to make music... without actually making music at all!!

 might be interesting : it shows a Max device that synchronize an audio track to an external human tempo automatically tracked ! If combined with looping, it should be very flexible, I haven't tried it yet but I sure will...

Hi !
This video might be interesting : it shows a Max device that synchronize an audio track to an external human tempo automatically tracked ! If combined with looping, it should be very flexible, I haven't tried it yet but I sure will...


thanks simon for your suggestions, but that is meant for pre-recorded audio. i was talking about live looping, but maybe the title of the post is confusing.

there's an iphone app called yellofy that does the job pretty well. but nothing for desktop yet...

-- audio loop quantized on the fly. is it possible?!