the pengiun

i'm new to all this technology so forgive me if i sound a little stupid ;D.

anyways its powerful stuff - i just made my first virtual synth the other day for my fyp. i am also building an interface that will control it. the interface will consist of 6 distance sensors. 3 for each hand (to give you an idea - the interaction would be similar to that of a orchestra conductor). i have been trying to research the right kind of sensor and am completely bewildered with all the options.

so basically what i need to know is, first - with which type of distance sensor is there least likely to be interference problems between the sensors?

secondly - do you get what you pay for? - the price differences between sensors is crazy.

thirdly - does pluggo have to be installed on a machine in order for msp vsts to work?

thanks for taking time to read. i would really appreciate any suggestions

i'm new to all this technology so forgive me if i sound a little stupid ;D. 

anyways its powerful stuff - i just made my first virtual synth the other day for my fyp. i am also building an interface that will control it. the interface will consist of 6 distance sensors. 3 for each hand (to give you an idea - the interaction would be similar to that of a orchestra conductor). i have been trying to research the right kind of sensor  and am completely bewildered with all the options.

thanks for taking time to read. i would really appreciate any suggestions


beginner-question

> (to give you an idea - the interaction would be similar to that of 

>so basically what i need to know is, first - with which type of 

>distance sensor is there least likely to be interference problems 

>secondly - do you get what you pay for? - the price differences 

for simulating the way an orchestra conductor works - and to make it 

cheap - i would say a web-cam would be the easiest/cheapest (I use 

Fire-i, they cost around 100 euros piece...) - of ocurse this means 

using either jitter or soft vns or cyclops...

but i find the technology, in this case, much more easy than 

sensors.... and it is close to the real thing - teh musicians see the 

conductor's movements, they do not measure its muscular tension or 

>  (to give you an idea - the interaction would be similar to that of 
>a orchestra conductor).
>
>so basically what i need to know is, first - with which type of 
>distance sensor is there least likely to be interference problems 
>between the sensors?
>
>secondly - do you get what you pay for? - the price differences 
>between sensors is crazy.
>

for simulating the way an orchestra conductor works - and to make it 
cheap - i would say a web-cam would be the easiest/cheapest (I use 
Fire-i, they cost around 100 euros piece...) - of ocurse this means 
using either jitter or soft vns or cyclops...

but i find the technology, in this case, much more easy than 
sensors.... and it is close to the real thing - teh musicians see the 
conductor's movements, they do not measure its muscular tension or 
anything like that...

kasper
-- 
  Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

thanks kasper, this is really helping me.

>why 4?? - i have used in some pieces ONE camera

>which detects changes in no less than 64 areas

this would be great on two-axis but how do i factor in

the third axis with one camera. would i program max to

calculate the total area of what it sees as the arm by

colour separation? could i place a coloured light 

(lets say green) near the camera and then as the

hand moves closer it becomes more green and this 

can be calculated? also you'd need a fairly high 

i'd like the interface to be intuitive. as long as the

user knows the rough boundaries for each arm then they'd

be totally free to move their arms around as madly as

thanks kasper, this is really helping me. 

>why 4?? - i have used in some pieces ONE camera
>which detects changes in no less than 64 areas
>(of what the cam "sees". 

this would be great on two-axis but how do i factor in
the third axis with one camera. would i program max to
calculate the total area of what it sees as the arm by
colour separation? could i place a coloured light 
(lets say green) near the camera and then as the
 hand moves closer it becomes more green and this 
can be calculated? also you'd need a fairly high 
resolution camera,especially if you are 
dividing up the area?

i'd like the interface to be intuitive. as long as the
user knows the rough boundaries for each arm then they'd
be totally free to move their arms around as madly as
they like in all directions


> anyways its powerful stuff - i just made my first virtual synth the other day for my fyp. i am also building an interface that will control it. the interface will consist of 6 distance sensors. 3 for each hand (to give you an idea - the interaction would be similar to that of a orchestra conductor). i have been trying to research the right kind of sensor and am completely bewildered with all the options.

If I understand your goal (been thinking myself about 'orchestra conductor' kind of interfaces), I think this is a job for accelerometers and/or gyroscopes. With a 3D accelerometer in each hand (maybe complemented with just one video camera) you'll have lots of data to mess around. You could even complement that with bend sensors on each finger ;).

Maybe you can buy a Wiimote, tear it apart and use the relevant guts of it with bluetooth connection... a cheap and easy way to have a wireless controller! I'll have to try this myself when I have some free time, so either technology you use, please report you successes back to the list!

> secondly - do you get what you pay for? - the price differences between sensors is crazy.

True, but I don't think you get what you pay for... see the CREATE USB Interface, for example: For $50 you have 13 analog inputs (with 10-bit resolution - and, believe me, that is quite a step in control from 7-bit midi) directly in Max via USB+HI. There's even a wireless battery-powered bluetooth version. Arduino is also a popular choice, as well as the Phidgets Interface. They all look kind of 'not ready for stage', but from my experience they can work really well.

On the net you can find dozens of projects witch probably have some resemblance to what you want, most of them with schematics, source code and ideas you can use as a starting point.

> anyways its powerful stuff - i just made my first virtual synth the other day for my fyp. i am also building an interface that will control it. the interface will consist of 6 distance sensors. 3 for each hand (to give you an idea - the interaction would be similar to that of a orchestra conductor). i have been trying to research the right kind of sensor  and am completely bewildered with all the options.

On  the net you can find dozens of projects witch probably have some resemblance to what you want, most of them with schematics, source code and ideas you can use as a starting point.

>thanks kasper, this is really helping me.

>>why 4?? - i have used in some pieces ONE camera

>>which detects changes in no less than 64 areas

>this would be great on two-axis but how do i factor in

>the third axis with one camera. would i program max to

>calculate the total area of what it sees as the arm by

>colour separation? could i place a coloured light

>(lets say green) near the camera and then as the

> hand moves closer it becomes more green and this

>can be calculated? also you'd need a fairly high

>i'd like the interface to be intuitive. as long as the

>user knows the rough boundaries for each arm then they'd

>be totally free to move their arms around as madly as

well, if the hand becomes BIGGER it means it is closer, right???, 

and i did a piece where 3 dancers were teh sole musicians of a 

pre-written score, with this system - and it worked - i would say it 

>thanks kasper, this is really helping me.
>
>>why 4?? - i have used in some pieces ONE camera
>>which detects changes in no less than 64 areas
>>(of what the cam "sees".
>
>this would be great on two-axis but how do i factor in
>the third axis with one camera. would i program max to
>calculate the total area of what it sees as the arm by
>colour separation? could i place a coloured light
>(lets say green) near the camera and then as the
>  hand moves closer it becomes more green and this
>can be calculated? also you'd need a fairly high
>resolution camera,especially if you are
>dividing up the area?
>
>i'd like the interface to be intuitive. as long as the
>user knows the rough boundaries for each arm then they'd
>be totally free to move their arms around as madly as
>they like in all directions

well, if the hand becomes BIGGER it means it is closer, right???, 
this could be enough for the 3rd axis...

and i did a piece where 3 dancers were teh sole musicians of a 
pre-written score, with this system - and it worked - i would say it 
IS intuitive

http://www.akustische-kunst.org/maxmsp/download/freeverb%7E1.2.2-intel.zip

this is the download link of freeverb~ OSX max 4.6 and it seems to be broken.

I m also repporting to the webmaster of www.akustische-kunst.org, but if there was anyone out

there who could quickly send it to me off list, it would be highly appreciated.

this is the download link of freeverb~ OSX max 4.6 and it seems to be broken.
I m also repporting to the webmaster of www.akustische-kunst.org, but if there was anyone out
there who could quickly send it to me off list, it would be highly appreciated.

>CREATE USB Interface, for example: For $50 you have 13 analog 

>inputs (with 10-bit resolution - and, believe me, that is quite a 

>step in control from 7-bit midi) directly in Max via USB+HI.

i checked it out and it sounds likes the business :D

>If I understand your goal (been thinking myself about 'orchestra

> conductor' kind of interfaces), I think this is a job for 

>accelerometers and/or gyroscopes. With a 3D accelerometer in each

> hand (maybe complemented with just one video camera) you'll have

> lots of data to mess around. You could even complement that with

cheers will defo look into those. but couldn't the acceleration be 

calculated from the changing raw position data? again - im broke

>well, if the hand becomes BIGGER it means it is closer, right???,

>this could be enough for the 3rd axis...

would it be accurate though. what is the resolution of webcams

>CREATE USB Interface, for example: For $50 you have 13 analog 
>inputs (with 10-bit resolution - and, believe me, that is quite a 
>step in control from 7-bit midi) directly in Max via USB+HI. 

>If I understand your goal (been thinking myself about 'orchestra
> conductor' kind of interfaces), I think this is a job for 
>accelerometers and/or gyroscopes. With a 3D accelerometer in each
> hand (maybe complemented with just one video camera) you'll have
> lots of data to mess around. You could even complement that with
> bend sensors on each finger ;).

cheers will defo look into those. but couldn't the acceleration be 
calculated from the changing raw position data? again - im broke

>well, if the hand becomes BIGGER it means it is closer, right???,
>this could be enough for the 3rd axis...

Thanks for the info, it's a sit, not zip.... I'll fix the link and 

probably also put a zip there because many people have trouble with sit 

Yacine Sebti wrote:
> http://www.akustische-kunst.org/maxmsp/download/freeverb%7E1.2.2-intel.zip

Thanks for the info, it's a sit, not zip.... I'll fix the link and 
probably also put a zip there because many people have trouble with sit 
nowadays.

beginner question