nobody

I just started using Max two weeks ago (a dream has come true since I found out what one can do with it!) and have a simple question (can't really find it in the manuals):

I want to write a simple vst/au plugin that recieves automation data from the host program (NI's Kore) and changes it to midi data that is send out a hardware midi interface.

So what do I need to purchase from Cycling 74 apart from Max to make this work?

Do I need MSP (since I don't need audio processing or the plugmidiin object for my plugin) to develop this plugin?

Do I need to buy pluggo to write the plugin?

Will my plugin work standalone or in a kind of pluggo runtime environment? If a runtime env. is required, is it free or is full pluggo required to run it?

So what do I need to purchase from Cycling 74 apart from Max to make this work?
Do I need MSP (since I don't need audio processing or the plugmidiin object for my plugin) to develop this plugin?
Do I need to buy pluggo to write the plugin?
Will my plugin work standalone or in a kind of pluggo runtime environment? If a runtime env. is required, is it free or is full pluggo required to run it?

creating-vstau-plugins

Sorry, I didn't mean standalone. I meant, will the plugin work without pluggo or will it need it or a runtime.

- You need MSP, since a plug-in has to expose an audio interface (even if it

is just the input running into the output). (Also, the plug-in building

- You do not need Pluggo (the product), but you will need Pluggo's runtime.

This is freely available on the Cycling website.

- Your plug-in will appear to be a standalone plug-in, but you will need to

install the Pluggo runtime on any computer that will run your plug.

- You need MSP, since a plug-in has to expose an audio interface (even if it
is just the input running into the output).  (Also, the plug-in building
objects come with MSP...)

- You do not need Pluggo (the product), but you will need Pluggo's runtime.
This is freely available on the Cycling website.

- Your plug-in will appear to be a standalone plug-in, but you will need to
install the Pluggo runtime on any computer that will run your plug.

Do you know if there any known issues with plugins written in MaxMSP running in Kore? I'd like to know before I buy MSP.

Probably best to check on the Kore user's list for that answer....

But I have another question - I was under the impression that the 

Kore controller format was proprietary; do you have a way to decode 

If so, you would be achieving what many Kore users have desired, 

which is a way to use the hardware controller as a generic MIDI 

At 3:35 PM +0200 9/14/06, Jens Brueck wrote:

>Do you know if there any known issues with plugins written in MaxMSP 

>running in Kore? I'd like to know before I buy MSP.

202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X

But I have another question - I was under the impression that the 
Kore controller format was proprietary; do you have a way to decode 
that data and convert it to MIDI?

If so, you would be achieving what many Kore users have desired, 
which is a way to use the hardware controller as a generic MIDI 
controller...

At 3:35 PM +0200 9/14/06, Jens Brueck wrote:
>Thanks! This clears things up.
>
>Do you know if there any known issues with plugins written in MaxMSP 
>running in Kore? I'd like to know before I buy MSP.
>
>Jens

-- 
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com


That's right. But parameters of a plugin loaded in Kore are controlled by Kore's knobs and buttons via VST/AU automation. Correct me if I am wrong but since it is be possible with Max to have sliders or something that outputs MIDI data directly to a hardware MIDI interface and these sliders can be assinged to Kore's knobs, it should be possible to do what I (and every Kore user in this world) want. The possibilities would be endless. You could even output sysex to external synths with a custom made plugin.

The problem with creating plugins which output MIDI is that Pluggo does not load the MaxMSP MIDI drivers. So, it is not in fact possible to directly output MIDI from a pluggo plugin to an external hardware box.

Perhaps it would help if you gave us a really concrete example of what you want to do. It seems to me that there are lots of ways of getting there.

That's bad. I was able to create plugins that output MIDI in SynthEdit, but since I moved to Mac I can't use it anymore.

What I want to do is simply to have user interface objects (sliders for example) that output MIDI. Then I can control these objects with Kore's knobs and have a fully customizable generic MIDI controller. I hoped that would be possible with Max.

On Sep 14, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Jens Brueck wrote:

> What I want to do is simply to have user interface objects (sliders 

> for example) that output MIDI. Then I can control these objects 

> with Kore's knobs and have a fully customizable generic MIDI 

i know for a fact that MIDI control from Kore is planned and should

be implemented fairly soon, how soon i can't say. NI is well aware

of the clamor from users to get this working, and it's a pretty high

priority on their to-do list. now, if they would just get OSC working

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

> What I want to do is simply to have user interface objects (sliders  
> for example) that output MIDI. Then I can control these objects  
> with Kore's knobs and have a fully customizable generic MIDI  
> controller.

jens
i know for a fact that MIDI control from Kore is planned and should
be implemented fairly soon, how soon i can't say. NI is well aware
of the clamor from users to get this working, and it's a pretty high
priority on their to-do list. now, if they would just get OSC working
i would be a happy camper!
cheers
bruce

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick

Thanks for your posting. I'm sure NI has that on their list. But I guess it can take a while until MIDI controller features are implemented. They have a new audio interface, a new synth (Masive), FM8, Battery 3 etc., are working on Komplete 4 and have to recompile everything as universal binaries. So I think a Kore update with new features won't be out until beginning of next year when Komplete 4 arrives. Personally, I would be happy if they solved the problem first that causes Kore to have a CPU load of about 40% (at high latency) on my Powerbook G4, 1.67 GHz with not a single plugin loaded. But that's another story...

Anyway, I think it is not possible to make pluggo load the MIDI drivers, is it? I'm still hoping to find a selfmade solution to the problem. Does anyone else have an idea how to get MIDI out of a pluggo plugin? I don't think there is an external object out there that could do the trick?!?

everything what ddg says plus the following:

your host program also needs to be able to output midi

from plug-ins - logic audio for example does not allow 

NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo 

1.
your host program also needs to be able to output midi
from plug-ins - logic audio for example does not allow 
this, it mostly only works in VST.

2.
NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo 
currently is not (but might be one day)


> NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo 

> currently is not (but might be one day)

Kore hosts AU plugins, too. NI's own plugins also come as AUs and can be loaded. And Andrew said in this thread: "Pluggo works fine in Kore." So I can't understand your second statement.

> 2.
> NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo 
> currently is not (but might be one day)

Kore hosts AU plugins, too. NI's own plugins also come as AUs and can be loaded. And Andrew said in this thread: "Pluggo works fine in Kore." So I can't understand your second statement.


Could one you experienced MaxMSP users please comment on this:

Would it work if I made a AU/VST plugin that receives automation data, kind of converts it to MIDI data, send it via udpsend to a standalone Max application that then outputs it to a physical MIDI port?

I'm still not giving up on my problem!
Could one you experienced MaxMSP users please comment on this:

Quote: nobody wrote on Sun, 24 September 2006 13:55

----------------------------------------------------

> Would it work if I made a AU/VST plugin that receives automation data, kind of converts it to MIDI data, send it via udpsend to a standalone Max application that then outputs it to a physical MIDI port?

Yep, that works. In Logic that is, I didn't try in other hosts. But for some spooky reason the timing of udp coming from logic is very unreliable compared to a) udp from max to max and b) midi from logic to max.

Another solution to do what you might want to do is this: when a plugin in logic is controlled by automation events, the track it is inserted in generates Fader commands in the environment. The fader commands can be transformed to midi and then sent to max.

I must warn you though that I have spent some long frustrating hours in the buggy and overall crappy environment editor of logic.. oh and the tech support is unimaginably bad. Absolutely uncomparable to the great involvement of cycling '74. But maybe that's only because I do not plan to spend over $100 to submit a bugreport to apple.

Quote: nobody wrote on Sun, 24 September 2006 13:55
----------------------------------------------------
> Would it work if I made a AU/VST plugin that receives automation data, kind of converts it to MIDI data, send it via udpsend to a standalone Max application that then outputs it to a physical MIDI port?
----------------------------------------------------

Yep, that works. In Logic that is, I didn't try in other hosts. But for some spooky reason the timing of udp coming from logic is very unreliable compared to a) udp from max to max and b) midi from logic to max. 

Another solution to do what you might want to do is this: when a plugin in logic is controlled by automation events, the track it is inserted in generates Fader commands in the environment. The fader commands can be transformed to midi and then sent to max. 

Quote: nobody wrote on Fri, 15 September 2006 04:15

> > NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo 

> > currently is not (but might be one day)

AU plug-ins are always mach-o ... but there is no AU

host which allows AU plug-ins to output midi via the 

if your host is cubase i would recommend to give up

the KORE idea in this setup ... you can easily create 

your personal KORE in maxmsp ... then you have a direct

Quote: nobody wrote on Fri, 15 September 2006 04:15
----------------------------------------------------
> > 2.
> > NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo 
> > currently is not (but might be one day)
>
> Kore hosts AU plugins, too. 

AU plug-ins are always mach-o ... but there is no AU
host which allows AU plug-ins to output midi via the 
hosts midi IO buses anyway.

you didnt say whats your host program?
if your host is cubase i would recommend to give up
the KORE idea in this setup ... you can easily create 
your personal KORE in maxmsp ... then you have a direct
translation from parameters to midi


> AU plug-ins are always mach-o ... but there is no AU

> host which allows AU plug-ins to output midi via the 

Ok, i see. Andrew said that Pluggo doesn't load midiout drivers. Is this also true when creating vst plugins? Vst is possible with MaxMSP, isn't it?

My host is Kore software standalone. I want to use it for live gigs hosting mainly B4, Absynth, Kontakt and a few Reaktor ensembles I made. The Kore controller is kind of a dongle for the Kore software, so my Kore controller sits on my main keyboard anyway and I really don't have any room near me left for another controller. So I started thinking of a way to use the Kore Controller for controlling the rest of my setup, too. That's the whole story. And the whole problem. And I am not the only one who likes to see the Kore controller being used for devices outside of the Kore software.

> AU plug-ins are always mach-o ... but there is no AU
> host which allows AU plug-ins to output midi via the 
> hosts midi IO buses anyway.

My host is Kore software standalone. I want to use it for live gigs hosting mainly B4, Absynth, Kontakt and a few Reaktor ensembles I made. The Kore controller is kind of a dongle for the Kore software, so my Kore controller sits on my main keyboard anyway and I really don't have any room near me left for another controller. So I started thinking of a way to use the Kore Controller for controlling the rest of my setup, too. That's the whole story. And the whole problem. And I am not the only one who likes to see the Kore controller being used for devices outside of the Kore software.


I got it!!! I found a much simpler solution!

For some reason Kore 1.0.3 now sends midi data if you check "Send Enable" in the assignment properties of a knob or button (didn't work before), when you enable a midi port in the "Audio and MIDI Settings" dialog. This function is pretty useless on its own, because it sends on all enabled ports and on all 16 channels simultaniously, but at least it sends something.

So I made a simple ensemble in Reaktor with 8 Knobs and 8 Buttons. I can then assign each of them to a knob or button in a Kore controller user page, each sending a different midi CC#. The only out port enabled in midi settings is "To MaxMSP 1". Now it's a simple thing to make a standalone Max patch that filters and modifies incoming midi data and sends it out wherever I like.

Everyone who knows a little Reaktor and Max can now make a setup that suits to everyone's needs.

>NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo

[img]index.php?t=getfile&id=260&private=0[/img]

>2.
>NI KORE only hosts .vst type plug-ins, which pluggo
>currently is not (but might be one day)

[img]index.php?t=getfile&id=260&private=0[/img]


Creating vst/au plugins