Zachary Seldess

Sorry if this has been asked, or if the answer is somewhere obvious and I've missed it.

Is there a way to use the scale feature on comments, messages, and text-objects in presentation mode, and not have the scaling effect those same entities in regular patching mode? If not, will this feature be added in the future?

different-scaling-for-presentation-mode

> Is there a way to use the scale feature on comments, messages, and

> text-objects in presentation mode, and not have the scaling effect

> those same entities in regular patching mode?

some hours ago there was a related thread called "scripting with 

thispatcher in presentation mode" It might have the answer if I 

understood you correct. (If not clarify your question... ;-)

Zachary Seldess schrieb:
> Is there a way to use the scale feature on comments, messages, and
> text-objects in presentation mode, and not have the scaling effect
> those same entities in regular patching mode?

some hours ago there was a related thread called "scripting with 
thispatcher in presentation mode" It might have the answer if I 
understood you correct. (If not clarify your question... ;-)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Thanks Stefan, it's related, but not the answer. I should have posted this question in that thread though. Oh well, too late.

Here's the real issue. I'm talking about width AND height in text objects, messages, and comments. You can easily specify different box widths in patching mode vs. presentation, but you can't alter the height (which would require a change of font size).

In the thispatcher helpfile, for example - in the moreScripting subpatch:

1. find the message that says "script size var1 100 15"

2. click it - the width will change, but not the height/fontsize

3. Look in var1's object inspector at the font size, you'll see "11.595187" - not 15.

Therefore, the last number in this message seems meaningless?

However, you can just send a fontsize message directly to the object (or via the thispatcher) to adjust the fontsize/height of the box, without effecting the width.

BUT, YOU CAN'T SPECIFY DIFFERENT FONTSIZES FOR REGULAR PATCHING VS. PRESENTATION MODES.

This would be extremely useful for a future version.

Don't get me wrong though. I absolutely LOVE Max5 - enjoy it more an more every day. Bravo to everyone at Cycling '74 for a true leap forward in interface design!

Here's the real issue. I'm talking about width AND height in text objects, messages, and comments. You can easily specify different box widths in patching mode vs. presentation, but you can't alter the height (which would require a change of font size). 

1. find the message that says "script size var1 100 15"
2. click it - the width will change, but not the height/fontsize
3. Look in var1's object inspector at the font size, you'll see "11.595187" - not 15.

However, you can just send a fontsize message directly to the object (or via the thispatcher) to adjust the fontsize/height of the box, without effecting the width. 

Don't get me wrong though. I absolutely LOVE Max5 - enjoy it more an more every day. Bravo to everyone at Cycling '74 for a true leap forward in interface design!


We decided that presentation-specific attributes would be limited to the location of the box for the first release. Creating presentation-specific versions of other attributes would lead to an unwelcome increase in the complexity of the interface if it wasn't handled properly. You can say, "But I just want font size!" and then someone else will say, "I just want color!" and pretty soon every object has 2x the number of attributes and a feature that was supposed to make Max easier to use ends up making it harder to use.

I have some ideas for handling the problem but it's a lot of work to deal with a very minor issue that only relates to people's desire to format the patching view of their patch in a more readable way.

I wonder if a reasonable compromise could be an option to have the font scale with the size of the object. And instead of only letting us stretch an object box horizontally, stretch in both dimensions. Patcher and presentation mode already keep sizes separate, and GUI objects already work this way...

If there was a such a feature I think I would want it on by default all the time.

> BUT, YOU CAN'T SPECIFY DIFFERENT FONTSIZES FOR REGULAR PATCHING VS.

Yes that is true, I think I requested a presentation font size attribute 

as well. Especially if you need BIG LETTERS (ouch) in presentation mode, 

its hard to move them to a usefull place in patching mode without eating 

The work around would be to use a bpatcher for the big letters, but 

still its neither elegant nor intuitive...

In most cases I need big letters, its some sort of time display, I made 

a bpatcher that acts like a number box for time, and its resizable...

Zachary Seldess schrieb:
> BUT, YOU CAN'T SPECIFY DIFFERENT FONTSIZES FOR REGULAR PATCHING VS.
> PRESENTATION MODES.

Yes that is true, I think I requested a presentation font size attribute 
as well. Especially if you need BIG LETTERS (ouch) in presentation mode, 
its hard to move them to a usefull place in patching mode without eating 
way too much space...

The work around would be to use a bpatcher for the big letters, but 
still its neither elegant nor intuitive...

In most cases I need big letters, its some sort of time display, I made 
a bpatcher that acts like a number box for time, and its resizable...

> I have some ideas for handling the problem but it's a lot of work to

> deal with a very minor issue that only relates to people's desire to

> format the patching view of their patch in a more readable way.

I must say, the presenation view alone is a big step forward. Thanks for 

I don't know if the "some ideas" are on the same track. I guess I would 

make the inspector contextual, it would only show the presentation 

attributes like position (and font size) in presentation mode, and hide 

the patching attributes. And the other way around in patching mode...

I can imagine that this isn't easy to implement...

Anything which needs to be big in presentation mode eats unnecessarily 

space in patching mode. That is just the position and the font size 

I could also imagine a "scale font to position" attribute, which would 

rescale the font size to the appropriate choosen position...

Just some ideas to address the problem...

David Zicarelli schrieb:
> I have some ideas for handling the problem but it's a lot of work to
> deal with a very minor issue that only relates to people's desire to
> format the patching view of their patch in a more readable way.

I must say, the presenation view alone is a big step forward. Thanks for 
that brilliant idea.
I don't know if the "some ideas" are on the same track. I guess I would 
make the inspector contextual, it would only show the presentation 
attributes like position (and font size) in presentation mode, and  hide 
the patching attributes. And the other way around in patching mode...

Anything which needs to be big in presentation mode eats unnecessarily 
space in patching mode. That is just the position and the font size 
attributes. Definitely not the color...
I could also imagine a "scale font to position" attribute, which would 
rescale the font size to the appropriate choosen position...

how about a presentation-specific zoom-factor?

i find myself wanting different zooms for patching and presenting.

i know that zooming is not part of the patcher file and for a specifc 

view, but it IMHO it would make sense for presentation-mode and this 

wouldn't add extra attributes to box-classes.

i know that zooming is not part of the patcher file and for a specifc  
view, but it IMHO it would make sense for presentation-mode and this  
wouldn't add extra attributes to box-classes.

> how about a presentation-specific zoom-factor?

> i find myself wanting different zooms for patching and presenting.

It wouldn't address that specific problem, if a single object needs to 

have BIG letters and all others are normal.

Its unlikely, that the presentation view has a single object...

jasch   schrieb:
> how about a presentation-specific zoom-factor?
>
> i find myself wanting different zooms for patching and presenting.

It wouldn't address that specific problem, if a single object needs to 
have BIG letters and all others are normal.

different scaling for presentation mode