RonH

Hi - I'd be grateful if someone can tell me if it's possible to send the AU DLS synth arbitrarily to any of the 8 channels offered by Digidesign's core audio. The default is simply to output to channels 1 and 2.

dls-synth-to-8-channels

I would say that you need to instantiate it four times. As far as I know, it only provides two-channel output.

I would say that you need to instantiate it four times.  As far as I know, it only provides two-channel output.

but the three extra instances would also go to channels 1 and 2. What i'm lacking is control over which channels the synth goes to.

Quote: RonH wrote on Fri, 11 August 2006 17:02

----------------------------------------------------

> but the three extra instances would also go to channels 1 and 2.

I'm don't have a Digidesign setup on this computer I am at now, but if I use Soundflower 16 channel as the driver, and in AULab build a setup with four stereo outputs using soundflower channels 1-8, then each instance of Apple DLS Synth gives me a choice of Stereo Mix, Output 1, Output 2, Output 3, or Output 4. What is strange is that if I choose one of the other outputs (other than stereo mix) from the menu on the plugin inspector, the inspector goes blank. Nevertheless, I can assign each instance to a separate output in the mixer window--each instance has its own channel strip which can be assigned to any combination of outputs, busses, etc.

Quote: RonH wrote on Fri, 11 August 2006 17:02
----------------------------------------------------
> but the three extra instances would also go to channels 1 and 2.
----------------------------------------------------
I'm don't have a Digidesign setup on this computer I am at now, but if I use Soundflower 16 channel as the driver, and in AULab build a setup with four stereo outputs using soundflower channels 1-8, then each instance of Apple DLS Synth gives me a choice of Stereo Mix, Output 1, Output 2, Output 3, or Output 4.  What is strange is that if I choose one of the other outputs (other than stereo mix) from the menu on the plugin inspector, the inspector goes blank.  Nevertheless, I can assign each instance to a separate output in the mixer window--each instance has its own channel strip which can be assigned to any combination of outputs, busses, etc.

I'm doing everything from within Max, choosing the DLS synth from the popup menu on the noteout object. I'm not familiar with AULab.

Okay, I see. I not sure how you address the output of a built-in DLS synth from inside Max anyway. In 4.5, multiple DLSs are supported (see WhatsNewInMaxMSP45, pp. 11-12) as devices that MIDI can be sent to, but if there's a way to do all of this from inside Max/MSP, someone should please let me know. In fact, I don't even see where they can be determined to be mono or stereo from inside Max. My guess is that, with the lack of any other intervention, they use whatever output device the Default Output is set to in AudioMIDI Setup.

My approach to that would be first to create an aggregate device driver combining you Digidesign CoreAudio driver and the Soundflower 16 channel driver. You can put the Digidesign driver first in the list, so they are output numbers 1 through 8, and make the Soundflower channels 9 through 27. Next, startup your AU host and choose your new aggregate driver as the driver for that application. Instantiate your four DLS synths you need in a separate program like AULab (if you have developer tools installed, it is in /Developer/Applications/Audio/) or other such AU hosting app. Assign the outputs of the first to channels 9-10, the second to 11-12, etc. You can work with the DLS more thoroughly from here. In Max, set the audio driver to your new aggregate driver, and use an adc~ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 to get your audio into max, and it can eventually leave through a dac~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.

Since 4.5, you can even create more virtual MIDI ports to control each synth totally individually if you like. Just type in a message box [; #SM createoutport mynewport1 coremidi; #SM createoutport mynewport2 coremidi]

If there is an easier way to do this, someone please let me know.

Okay, I see.  I not sure how you address the output of a built-in DLS synth from inside Max anyway.  In 4.5, multiple DLSs are supported (see WhatsNewInMaxMSP45, pp. 11-12) as devices that MIDI can be sent to, but if there's a way to do all of this from inside Max/MSP, someone should please let me know.  In fact, I don't even see where they can be determined to be mono or stereo from inside Max.  My guess is that, with the lack of any other intervention, they use whatever output device the Default Output is set to in AudioMIDI Setup.

My approach to that would be first to create an aggregate device driver combining you Digidesign CoreAudio driver and the Soundflower 16 channel driver.  You can put the Digidesign driver first in the list, so they are output numbers 1 through 8, and make the Soundflower channels 9 through 27.  Next, startup your AU host and choose your new aggregate driver as the driver for that application.  Instantiate your four DLS synths you need in a separate program like AULab (if you have developer tools installed, it is in /Developer/Applications/Audio/) or other such AU hosting app. Assign the outputs of the first to channels 9-10, the second to 11-12, etc.  You can work with the DLS more thoroughly from here.  In Max, set the audio driver to your new aggregate driver, and use an adc~ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 to get your audio into max, and it can eventually leave through a dac~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.

Since 4.5, you can even create more virtual MIDI ports to control each synth totally individually if you like.  Just type in a message box [; #SM createoutport mynewport1 coremidi; #SM createoutport mynewport2 coremidi]

If there is an easier way to do this, someone please let me know.
Tim


I'm not really sure if it's correct to say that the DLS synth is 'within Max' - probably not. It appears automatically in the popup menu for noteout. I did download an object called Argos fluidsynth, which apparently enables soundfonts to be loaded and controlled. But where exactly is the DLS soundfont? I don't find any files named anything like it.

I'm not sure i see your point in creating an aggregate driver, which is something i doubt digidesign would permit, as it's decidedly hoggish. I just want to be able to assign to the 8 channels that i already have. It's already sending to channels 1 and 2 of digidesign, so it should be able to send to the others.

sorry to jump in late. did anybody mention the fluidsynth~ external?

it can host soundfont-synths like dls and outputs directly into msp.

> I'm not really sure if it's correct to say that the DLS synth is 'within Max'

> - probably not. It appears automatically in the popup menu for noteout. I did

> download an object called Argos fluidsynth, which apparently enables

> soundfonts to be loaded and controlled. But where exactly is the DLS

> soundfont? I don't find any files named anything like it.

> I'm not sure i see your point in creating an aggregate driver, which is

> something i doubt digidesign would permit, as it's decidedly hoggish. I just

> want to be able to assign to the 8 channels that i already have. It's already

> sending to channels 1 and 2 of digidesign, so it should be able to send to

sorry to jump in late. did anybody mention the fluidsynth~ external?
it can host soundfont-synths like dls and outputs directly into msp.

hans w. koch
im krahnenhof 11
d-50668 koeln
+49-221-554902
www.hans-w-koch.net

>
> Thanks.
>
> I'm not really sure if it's correct to say that the DLS synth is 'within Max'
> - probably not. It appears automatically in the popup menu for noteout. I did
> download an object called Argos fluidsynth, which apparently enables
> soundfonts to be loaded and controlled. But where exactly is the DLS
> soundfont? I don't find any files named anything like it.
>
> I'm not sure i see your point in creating an aggregate driver, which is
> something i doubt digidesign would permit, as it's decidedly hoggish. I just
> want to be able to assign to the 8 channels that i already have. It's already
> sending to channels 1 and 2 of digidesign, so it should be able to send to
> the others.
>
>
>


thanks. I've seen mention of the fluidsynth~ external and tried to download it, but downloading requires that i install something called CVS. It's considerably more difficult than it should be, but perhaps I should make work of it.

or if you or someone could post the fluidsynth~ external or send it to me, that would be splendid.

http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/temps-reel/maxmsp/fluidsynth.html

thats a full compiled external - no other things needed.

> or if you or someone could post the fluidsynth~ external or send it to me,

you can grab it at:
http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/temps-reel/maxmsp/fluidsynth.html
thats a full compiled external - no other things needed.

hans w. koch
im krahnenhof 11
d-50668 koeln
+49-221-554902
www.hans-w-koch.net
Zitat von ron herrema :

>
> or if you or someone could post the fluidsynth~ external or send it to me,
> that would be splendid.
>


Is there any good starting point to make a

What i wanna do is to give a specific "remapping

table for signals" for example: 0.1 always turns to, say,

0.72; 0.23 turns to may be -0.15 and so on.

Any workarounds? Any ideas? Any starting point?

Is there any good starting point to make a
waveshaping-synth in max?

What i wanna do is to give a specific "remapping
table for signals" for example: 0.1 always turns to, say,
0.72; 0.23 turns to may be -0.15 and so on.

So i'm looking for an object
like table~,
that, as far as i know, does not exist.

Any workarounds? Any ideas? Any starting point?
Im still working
on max/msp 4.2.1 and Mac OS9.

fluidsynth~ Brilliant! I had downloaded it some time back and forgotten about it. Thanks for reminding me!

fluidsynth~  Brilliant! I had downloaded it some time back and forgotten about it.  Thanks for reminding me!

many thanks. Now, can you tell me where I can find the DLS file? A search of the hard drive turns up nothing with that name.

michael, i think you accidentally buried your request in another thread when you wished to start a new thread . . .

sorry - when i say *the* dls file, i'm referring to the default synth bank that comes with quicktime.

Good question. The Apple DLSMusicDevice seems to be just a player app that by default uses the Quick Time Music Synthesizer sound bank, which is probably buried deep in the system somewhere. There are lots of similarly functioning GM .dls or .sf2 files with similarly small footprints that are available. If you have Finale or SmartMusic installed, the synthgms.sf2 GM set is good, and sounds better than the QT synth (/Library/Audio/Sounds/Banks/).

Good question.  The Apple DLSMusicDevice seems to be just a player app that by default uses the Quick Time Music Synthesizer sound bank, which is probably buried deep in the system somewhere.  There are lots of similarly functioning GM .dls or .sf2 files with similarly small footprints that are available.  If you have Finale or SmartMusic installed, the synthgms.sf2 GM set is good, and sounds better than the QT synth (/Library/Audio/Sounds/Banks/).


On 12-Aug-2006, at 16:30, Family Winkler wrote:

Heisst wahrscheinlich "examples:cheby" unter 4.2

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
                                Universal Binaries on the way
iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
       Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
       Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
       http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de

thanks, patrick, for the path. Any idea why this wouldn't be coming up with the Find function in the Finder??

Ah - so I"ve downloaded the external and successfully loaded a soundfont (though the Mac DLS file will not load for some reason). But, it's really not clear how MIDI messages get to the external. The help file doesn't explain this, and the object seems to only accept input from message boxes.

Am 12.08.2006 um 22:08 schrieb ron herrema:

Ah - so I"ve downloaded the external and successfully loaded a soundfont (though

the Mac DLS file will not load for some reason). But, it's really not clear how

MIDI messages get to the external. The help file doesn't explain this, and the

object seems to only accept input from message boxes.

Ah - so I"ve downloaded the external and successfully loaded a soundfont (though
the Mac DLS file will not load for some reason). But, it's really not clear how
MIDI messages get to the external. The help file doesn't explain this, and the
object seems to only accept input from message boxes.

> that, as far as i know, does not exist.

That object is called buffer~ and you can peek~ and poke~ into it...

Family Winkler wrote:
> So i'm looking for an object
> like table~,
> that, as far as i know, does not exist.

That object is called buffer~ and you can peek~ and poke~ into it...
(standard objects with help files)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


thanks, hans, for the patch that is a big help when i use the Roland soundfont from Finale. It appears that the Quicktime AU DLS synth is quite stubborn, though. I've tried using Soundflower, but no matter how I route the sound, that default synth always goes out the Mac outputs :-/ (as i mentioned before, it won't load into fluidsynth)

ron, i never used that dls synth with fluidsynth, since there are so many free

soundfont-synths available. the path postet earlier by p. delges didnt work?

> thanks, hans, for the patch that is a big help when i use the Roland

> soundfont from Finale. It appears that the Quicktime AU DLS synth is quite

> stubborn, though. I've tried using Soundflower, but no matter how I route the

> sound, that default synth always goes out the Mac outputs :-/ (as i mentioned

ron, i never used that dls synth with fluidsynth, since there are so many free
soundfont-synths available. the path postet earlier by p. delges didnt work?
then i cant help either, sorry.

best
hans w. koch
im krahnenhof 11
d-50668 koeln
+49-221-554902
www.hans-w-koch.net

>
> thanks, hans, for the patch that is a big help when i use the Roland
> soundfont from Finale. It appears that the Quicktime AU DLS synth is quite
> stubborn, though. I've tried using Soundflower, but no matter how I route the
> sound, that default synth always goes out the Mac outputs :-/ (as i mentioned
> before, it won't load into fluidsynth)
>


the path is not an issue - i can find the file, but it refuses to load.

I just noticed--fluidsynth~ does not claim to play DLS files, only sf2. I tried another .dls file, and it also does not load. SimpleSynth can load all of them (dls and sf2), but fluidsynth~ doesn't seem to read dls files.

Again, a better GM set is the one MakeMusic ships with Finale and SmartMusic, the same that was in the Vivaldi system, based on an E-mu library. The dls set in CoreAudio is the same Roland SoundCanvas library that has been the QT synth synth the late nineties. It's pretty weak by today's sf standards.

By the way, I have thought about using fluidsynth~ to make a multichannel organ patch using the Jeux sount font(

http://members.aol.com/realmac/jeux1.htm).

 MIDI that baby into a 3 manual electronic Rodgers, and it will turn some heads! (Other sampled organ files can be found at 

http://habanerosoftware.com/midiorgan/virtualsamples/index.aspx)

I just noticed--fluidsynth~ does not claim to play DLS files, only sf2.  I tried another .dls file, and it also does not load.  SimpleSynth can load all of them (dls and sf2), but fluidsynth~ doesn't seem to read dls files.

Again, a better GM set is the one MakeMusic ships with Finale and SmartMusic, the same that was in the Vivaldi system, based on an E-mu library.  The dls set in CoreAudio is the same Roland SoundCanvas library that has been the QT synth synth the late nineties.  It's pretty weak by today's sf standards.

By the way, I have thought about using fluidsynth~ to make a multichannel organ patch using the Jeux sount font(http://members.aol.com/realmac/jeux1.htm).  MIDI that baby into a 3 manual electronic Rodgers, and it will turn some heads!  (Other sampled organ files can be found at http://habanerosoftware.com/midiorgan/virtualsamples/index.aspx)

Thanks a lot, i will try to chepy.pat & and to peek~ and poke~ ...!!

>> that, as far as i know, does not exist.

> That object is called buffer~ and you can peek~ and poke~ into it...

Thanks a lot, i will try to chepy.pat  & and to peek~ and poke~ ...!!

Stefan Tiedje schrieb:
> Family Winkler wrote:
>> So i'm looking for an object
>> like table~,
>> that, as far as i know, does not exist.
>
> That object is called buffer~ and you can peek~ and poke~ into it...
> (standard objects with help files)
>
> Stefan
>


DLS synth to 8 channels?