Rachel Vonk

I am brand new to using Max, and I do not have a lot of coding experience unfortunately.... Anywho I am trying to learn Max in order to create my experiment for my thesis project.

I do not have any idea, or even if it is possible, on how to make an experiment in which randomly some of my keypresses (using my keyboard to produce MIDI keyboard sounds) to play different notes...is this even possible? Also, just to make this more complicated, the randomly generated notes for each of the different keys should be the same range (tonal distance between notes).

Can anyone help me at all? I have been banging my head on the keyboard due to lack of sleep on this for the last week!

Any and all comments/help is immensely appreciated!!

Hello!
I am brand new to using Max, and I do not have a lot of coding experience unfortunately.... Anywho I am trying to learn Max in order to create my experiment for my thesis project.
I do not have any idea, or even if it is possible, on how to make an experiment in which randomly some of my keypresses (using my keyboard to produce MIDI keyboard sounds) to play different notes...is this even possible? Also, just to make this more complicated, the randomly generated notes for each of the different keys should be the same range (tonal distance between notes).

experiment-help

very good, you are on the right track to programming :P

i bet i only need about 14 objects and not more than 20 seconds for the basic model.

"randomly generated notes for each of the different keys should be the same range"

what means for each of the keys? (in relation to those which are replaced at randon with random keys?)

what is the relation for that "same range"? the range is pregiven or where does the min and max come from?

Haha good to know I am semi-on the right track! :P

So for my experiment, participants will be pressing keyboard keys that coencide with a MIDI keyboard structure... so when I have the program randomly generate a different note, different from the note they were supposed to hear (played last time), for each key it needs to be the same distance tonally. (Sorry I am horrible at explaining)

So for example if I have them play keys C, D, E, F. When the new note for C is generated to play them an E, when it's time for the D to be replaced it should be replaced with an F.

Is that any help, or does it sound as crazy as I think it does?

So for my experiment, participants will be pressing keyboard keys that coencide with  a MIDI keyboard structure... so when I have the program randomly generate a different note, different from the note they were supposed to hear (played last time),  for each key it needs to be the same distance tonally. (Sorry I am horrible at explaining)

So for example if I have them play keys  C, D, E, F. When the new note for C is generated to play them an E, when it's time for the D to be replaced it should be replaced with an F.

Is that any help, or does it sound as crazy as I think it does? 

I think everything You want could be done so easy if You were less random in explaining.

maybe You should explain this in some kind of order, not upsidedownsideleftright.

So who is pressing what key, and what is supposed to be heard, and after all who are we

I was just typing a long answer, trying to form what I understood from all You questions,

but than deleted it, because it is such pleasure to read Your post, that it would be a shame to give

it ordered structure, it is so random and poetic.

I am looking forward for Your next attempt to explain Your wishes.

Hi Rachel,
I think everything You want could be done so easy if You were less random in explaining.
maybe You should explain this in some kind of order, not upsidedownsideleftright.
So who is pressing what key, and what is supposed to be heard, and after all who are we
and  is our existance real...
I was just typing a long answer, trying to form what I understood from all You questions,
but than deleted it, because it is such pleasure to read Your post, that it would be a shame to give
it ordered structure, it is so random and  poetic.
I am looking forward for Your next attempt to explain Your wishes.


Thank you for pointing out the randomness I was afraid I was expressing. Hopefully this attempt will be less poetic and more clear.

Participants will be pressing 8 (computer )keys per trail of this experiment. Each of the 8 keys will be attached to an piano note (ex: C4, D4...). Therefore an example sequence is: C4, D4, F3, G4, E6, Bflat3, A2, C8.

Once per trial, one of the keys will have its auditory output changed from the note it was supposed to play to a new note (ex: participants press a key that normally would produce a C4 tone, but instead receive feedback of a D4 tone). I also need to somehow code this so that each trial will change the auditory output for a different key in the 8 key sequence (ex: trial 1 switches the C4 note, trial 2 switches the F4 note...).

Now the 'new' auditory output (the changed note) in each trial should be always be changed by a whole tone in either the ascending or descending direction. So for example if the C4 note is being changed, it will be changed to either a D4 or Bflat3; but only those two options.

Hey Source Audio,
Thank you for pointing out the randomness I was afraid I was expressing. Hopefully this attempt will be less poetic and more clear.

Participants will be pressing 8 (computer )keys  per trail of this experiment. Each of the 8 keys will be attached to an piano note (ex: C4, D4...). Therefore an example sequence is:  C4, D4, F3, G4, E6, Bflat3, A2, C8.
Once per trial, one of the keys will have its auditory output changed from the note it was supposed to play to a new note (ex: participants press a key that normally would produce a C4 tone, but instead receive feedback of a D4 tone).  I also need to somehow code this so that each trial will change the auditory output for a different key in the 8 key sequence (ex: trial 1 switches the C4 note, trial 2 switches the F4 note...). 

Now the 'new' auditory output (the changed note) in each trial should be always be changed by a whole tone in either the ascending or descending direction. So for example if the C4 note is being changed, it will be changed to either a D4 or Bflat3; but only those two options. 

Yes it does make much more sense, but is less poetic.

But now I have to translate this to my own little universe:

each user has 8 computer keys to create Midi Notes,

this Midi Notes do never produce the Note they are assigned to, but produce

transposed Note, ( by whole note) and each time the same key gets pressed, the transposition

continues for same amount but in random ??? direction?

Here is max patch that does so, keyboard key 1 should trigger C2 as starting point,

and each time key 1 is pressed new note, transposed by whole note interval,

will be produced, but in random direction.

If that is what You are after, just multiply the stuff for 8 keys...

Yes it does make much more sense, but is less poetic.
But now I have to translate this to my own little universe:
each user has 8 computer keys  to  create Midi  Notes,
this  Midi Notes do never produce the Note they are assigned to, but produce
transposed Note, ( by whole note) and each time the same key gets pressed, the transposition
continues for same amount but in random ???  direction?
Here is max patch that does so, keyboard key 1 should trigger C2 as starting point,
and each time key 1 is pressed new note, transposed by whole note interval,
will be produced, but in random direction.
If that is what You are after, just multiply the stuff for 8 keys...


Ok I see how that works, thank you for making a patch so quickly!

So I still wasn't fully clear, apologies! So each key in the sequence should be assigned to a MIDI note and will always play that assigned note..... It will only ever play the different (whole note different) note on the trial it has been assigned to change. I will put an example of four trials below:

Key 1=C4 Key 2= D4 Key 3= F3 Key4= G4 Key 5= E6 Key 6= Bflat3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7

Trial one: Key 1, Key 2, Key 3 (note changed to G3), Key 4, Key 5, Key 6, Key 7, Key 8

Trial two: Key 1(note changed to D4), Key 2, Key 3 , Key 4, Key 5, Key 6, Key 7, Key 8

Trial three: Key 1, Key 2, Key 3 , Key 4, Key 5, Key 6(note changed to F#6), Key 7, Key 8

Trail four: Key 1, Key 2, Key 3 , Key 4, Key 5, Key 6, Key 7, Key 8(note changed to D7 )

My experiment is 126 trials long, so I am not entirely sure how to go about this. :/

So I still wasn't fully clear, apologies! So each key in the sequence should be assigned to a MIDI note and will always play that assigned note..... It will only ever play the different (whole note different) note on the trial it has been assigned to change. I will put an example of four trials below:
Key 1=C4              Key 2= D4              Key 3= F3               Key4= G4           Key 5= E6          Key 6= Bflat3            Key7= A2        Key8= C7

Trial one: Key 1, Key 2, Key 3 (note changed to G3), Key 4, Key 5, Key 6, Key 7, Key 8
Trial two: Key 1(note changed to D4), Key 2, Key 3 , Key 4, Key 5, Key 6, Key 7, Key 8
Trial three: Key 1, Key 2, Key 3 , Key 4, Key 5, Key 6(note changed to F#6), Key 7, Key 8
Trail four: Key 1, Key 2, Key 3 , Key 4, Key 5, Key 6, Key 7, Key 8(note changed to D7 )

My experiment is 126 trials long, so I am not entirely sure how to go about this. :/


This looks as preprogrammed sequence of key assignments.

If that is so, best is to use coll with fixed programmed Notes.

How do You plan to scroll through trials ?

Now that looks totaly different.
This looks as preprogrammed sequence of key assignments.
If that is so, best is to use coll with fixed programmed Notes.
How do You plan to scroll through trials ?
And what is now random ?


INIT : Key1=C4 Key2= D4 Key3= F3 Key4= G4 Key5= E6 Key 6= Bb3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7

trial 1 : Key1=C4 Key2= D4 (Key 3= G3) Key4= G4 Key5= E6 Key6= Bb3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7

trial 2: (Key1=D4) Key2= D4 Key3= F3 Key4= G4 Key5= E6 Key6= Bb3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7

trial 3: Key1=C4 Key2= D4 Key3= F3 Key4= G4 Key5= E6 (Key6= F#6) Key7= A2 Key8= C7

so that it is clear if on new trial unchanged keys go back to initial Note.

In that case You have to reinit unchanging Keys assignments on every trial.

But if You want to continue with transpositions, then this could be a string

of 8 Values presenting position of a Key which gets changed.

trial1, 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0; - here Key3 gets order to trigger Value change

trial2, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ; - here Key1 gets order to trigger Value change

trial3, 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 ; - here Key6 gets order to trigger Value change

like this You could create 126 trial steps and put them in coll.

Output of coll can be unpacked and routed to 8 transposing items,

If that is what You want, I can make an example patch...

And why not like this :
INIT :    Key1=C4 Key2= D4 Key3= F3 Key4= G4 Key5= E6 Key 6= Bb3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7
trial 1 : Key1=C4 Key2= D4 (Key 3= G3) Key4= G4 Key5= E6 Key6= Bb3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7
trial 2:  (Key1=D4) Key2= D4 Key3= F3 Key4= G4 Key5= E6 Key6= Bb3 Key7= A2 Key8= C7
trial 3:  Key1=C4 Key2= D4 Key3= F3 Key4= G4 Key5= E6 (Key6= F#6) Key7= A2 Key8= C7

so that it is clear if on new trial unchanged keys go back to initial Note.
In that case You have to reinit unchanging Keys assignments on every trial.

But if You want to continue with transpositions, then this could be a string
of  8 Values presenting position of a Key which gets changed.
like :
trial1, 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0;  - here Key3 gets order to trigger Value change
trial2, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ; - here Key1 gets order to trigger Value change
trial3, 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 ; - here Key6 gets order to trigger Value change

like this You could create 126 trial steps and put them in coll.
Output of coll can be unpacked and routed to 8 transposing items,
like in the patch I posted first.
------------
If that is what You want, I can make an example patch...


"But if You want to continue with transpositions, then this could be a string

trial1, 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0; – here Key3 gets order to trigger Value change

trial2, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ; – here Key1 gets order to trigger Value change

trial3, 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 ; – here Key6 gets order to trigger Value change

That would work perfectly! Yes that is exactly how we wanted the program to run

"But if You want to continue with transpositions, then this could be a string
of 8 Values presenting position of a Key which gets changed.
like :
trial1, 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0; – here Key3 gets order to trigger Value change
trial2, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ; – here Key1 gets order to trigger Value change
trial3, 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 ; – here Key6 gets order to trigger Value change

like this You could create 126 trial steps and put them in coll.
Output of coll can be unpacked and routed to 8 transposing items,
like in the patch I posted first."

That would work perfectly! Yes that is exactly how we wanted the program to run


only getting trial steps into coll is missing.

only getting trial steps into coll is missing.
If You need help for that...
but please a bit poetic


This is absolutely amazing! Thank you so much not only for your patience in my great lack of Max knowledge, but for your time and help!

I am not too sure how to out the trial steps into coll... so here is my poem:

This is absolutely amazing! Thank you so much not only for your patience in my great lack of Max knowledge, but for your time and help!
I am not too sure how to out the trial steps into coll... so here is my poem:
I need help
 I am struggling
I don't know what to do,
You are wise
and so helpful
I will fail without you.


I will put that coll example together as soon as possible,

it is getting very late here, so I am falling asleep.

But You know, You can simply doubleclick the coll object, when patch

coll needs address followed by coma, then 8 number values and semicolon at end.

Just like the example : Trial1, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;

or even just the number for address, that would make recalling

You can set flag to store data with patcher, or save file to disk.

How do You plan to recall different trial Steps ?

By selecting number, stepping thru, or maybe automatic when every key in a trial has been played

And Do You want to store also Initial Note values in coll, so that

whole experiment can be stored as a file...

Ha, ha now thats cute.
I will put that coll example together as soon as possible,
it is getting very late here, so I am falling asleep.
But You know, You can simply doubleclick the coll object, when patch
is locked and write inside.
coll needs address followed by coma, then 8 number values and semicolon at end.
Just like the example : Trial1, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
or even just the number for address, that would make recalling
trial steps easier :
1, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
2, 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0;
3, 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0;
etc...
You can set flag to store data with patcher, or save file to disk.
Just read a bit coll help file.
How do You plan to recall different trial Steps ?
By selecting number, stepping thru, or maybe automatic when every key in a trial has been played
once ?
And Do You want to store also Initial Note values in coll, so that
whole experiment can be stored as a file...


I think an automatic after every key in the trial has been pressed would be the best option. If the whole experiment could be stored as a file that would be optimal (I will be using it to analyze the EEG recordings).

You are a lifesaver!
I think an automatic after every key in the trial has been pressed would be the best option. If the whole experiment could be stored as a file that would be optimal (I will be using it to analyze the EEG recordings).

Thank You, same to You, and till next time with coll and lol ...

I'm back again, just awake, ready to shake, and get some work done for fun,

You need the coll and auto scroll through the Trials

The patch You need is ready indeed and I hope it's no dope...

Hi Rachel,
I'm  back again, just awake, ready to shake, and get some work done for fun,
let me see where we've left..
You need the coll and auto scroll through the Trials
using step and dials...
The  patch You need is ready indeed and I hope it's no dope...


This is absolutely amazing (I appreciate the poetry), my anxiety and stress levels have dropped!

Thank-you so much for your help, I could not have done this without you!!

This is absolutely amazing (I appreciate the poetry), my anxiety and stress levels have dropped!
Thank-you so much for your help, I could not have done this without you!!
Again, a thousand thank-you's!!!!!


Hi, Rachel, You are welcome, no need for big thankyous.

I enjoyed the conversation, and a bit of foolin arround with poetry...

Hi, Rachel, You are welcome, no need for big thankyous.
I enjoyed the conversation, and a bit of foolin arround with poetry...


Experiment Help