litemover

I'm trying to extract a SMPTE timecode signal from the right-side channel of an audio track. The audio track has music on one side in mono and SMPTE timecode on another. Ultimately, Iw ould like to be able to control a timeline from the SMPTE signal but I have no idea how to get it to work.

I've tried several methods with no results.

If anyone could point me in the right direction or give me some hints, I'd really appreciate it.

I'm trying to extract a SMPTE timecode signal from the right-side channel of an audio track.  The audio track has music on one side in mono and SMPTE timecode on another.  Ultimately, Iw ould like to be able to control a timeline from the SMPTE signal but I have no idea how to get it to work.

extracting-smpte-timecode-embeded-in-an-audio-signal

Quote: litemover wrote on Thu, 01 June 2006 09:06

----------------------------------------------------

> I'm trying to extract a SMPTE timecode signal from the right-side channel of an audio track. The audio track has music on one side in mono and SMPTE timecode on another. Ultimately, Iw ould like to be able to control a timeline from the SMPTE signal but I have no idea how to get it to work.

There are numerous hardware devices that can decode SMPTE timecode (even some soundcards). Are you looking for a msp only method?

Quote: litemover wrote on Thu, 01 June 2006 09:06
----------------------------------------------------
> I'm trying to extract a SMPTE timecode signal from the right-side channel of an audio track.  The audio track has music on one side in mono and SMPTE timecode on another.  Ultimately, Iw ould like to be able to control a timeline from the SMPTE signal but I have no idea how to get it to work.

There are numerous hardware devices that can decode SMPTE timecode (even some soundcards). Are you looking for a msp only method?


Yes I need a solution that lets me insert the cd and extracts the SMPTE LTC audio track in MSP then allows me to put those values in a jit.column as well as control and mark the timeline using nothing but a Mac powerbook g4, tiger and MAX/MSP/Jitter

I do need the SMPTE signal from the audio track to sync other devices to. The SMPTE track is always an arbitrary track that the entire production uses to synch to so unfortunately, I can't just use the time from an sfplay~ object. I am using the sfplay~ object to play the track. I have tried opening the file in Jit and piping it to msp but I guess I need to actually exctract the bit information from the audio signal and unpack it into a digital signal.

Thanks for your replys though, keep'em coming.

I do need the SMPTE signal from the audio track to sync other devices to.  The SMPTE track is always an arbitrary track that the entire production uses to synch to so unfortunately, I can't just use the time from an sfplay~ object.  I am using the sfplay~ object to play the track.  I have tried opening the file in Jit and piping it to msp but I guess I need to actually exctract the bit information from the audio signal and unpack it into a digital signal.

You'll have to do some envelope-following (read: lowpass-filtering) to 

extract the bits from the signal; they're encoded in the amplitude 

envelope of the sound. Check out average~, slide~, or rampsmooth~ for 

What is it in Max that you need to sync to the SMPTE track?

You'll have to do some envelope-following (read: lowpass-filtering) to 
extract the bits from the signal; they're encoded in the amplitude 
envelope of the sound.  Check out average~, slide~, or rampsmooth~ for 
this.

I figured as much. It's going to take a long time for me to figure this one out.

I need to sync the timeline as well as Midi Show Control events from max to the audio SMPTE track. The events would then trigger external devices based on the audio SMPTE track post enveloped.

All of the events I work on where I need to sync to timecode are based on SMPTE LTC not MTC and the cds/DVDs/VHS... are striped with one channel of SMPTE LTC in audio format.

I'll play around and hopefully come up with a solution.

I figured as much.  It's going to take a long time for me to figure this one out.

I need to sync the timeline as well as Midi Show Control events from max to the audio SMPTE track.  The events would then trigger external devices based on the audio SMPTE track post enveloped.

All of the events I work on where I need to sync to timecode are based on SMPTE LTC not MTC and the cds/DVDs/VHS... are striped with  one channel of SMPTE LTC in audio format.

> I'll play around and hopefully come up with a solution.

I would try to do it with mxj~ in Java... I am interested in that as 

well, but other things have a higher priority at the moment....

litemover wrote:
> I'll play around and hopefully come up with a solution.

I would try to do it with mxj~ in Java... I am interested in that as 
well, but other things have a higher priority at the moment....

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


I just began having a very bizarre problem trying to launch Max. I 

get an error dialog box that says "Connection Error: The server may 

not exist or is not operational at this time." as if I was trying 

to connect to a server. I'm just trying to launch Max MSP. I've 

never seen this before, and I've used Max recently. I did download a 

Mac OS update. I had Tiger, but I upgraded o 10.4.7. Is there 

something incompatible about this version of Tiger? How do i fix 

......................................................................................................

(I forward my land line to my mobile phone when I'm travelling)

shipping address (for packages too large for a standard mail slot):

Pamela Z 2440 Sixteenth Street PMB #171, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA

Pamela Z's CD "A Delay is Better" on the Starkland label is now 

I just began having a very bizarre problem trying to launch Max.  I 
get an error dialog box that says "Connection Error: The server may 
not exist or is not operational at this time."   as if I was trying 
to connect to a server.  I'm just trying to launch Max MSP.  I've 
never seen this before, and I've used Max recently.  I did download a 
Mac OS update.  I had Tiger, but I upgraded o 10.4.7.  Is there 
something incompatible about this version of Tiger?  How do i fix 
this?

......................................................................................................
Contact info:

pamelaz@pamelaz.com
http://www.pamelaz.com

Land: 415.861.EARS (415.861.3277)
Mobile: 415.5PAMELA (415.572.6352)
(I forward my land line to my mobile phone when I'm travelling)
FAX: 415.861.FAKS (415.861.3257)

Pamela Z Productions
540 Alabama Street Studio 213
San Francisco, CA 94110
USA

shipping address (for packages too large for a standard mail slot):
Pamela Z  2440 Sixteenth Street  PMB #171, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA

Pamela Z's CD "A Delay is Better" on the Starkland label is now 
available at http://www.amazon.com, http://www.starkland.com, and in 
stores near you.
......................................................................................................


And Max is trying to connect to a server.

You have an alias to a network volume in your search path. Max is 

When Max is open, go into File Preferences and hit the Print button. 

You'll have a list of folders in the Max window. Go through that list 

until you find the folder with the network alias, then remove it.

There is plenty of discussion of this on the list if you want more 

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

You have an alias to a network volume in your search path. Max is  
trying to resolve it at startup time.

When Max is open, go into File Preferences and hit the Print button.  
You'll have a list of folders in the Max window. Go through that list  
until you find the folder with the network alias, then remove it.

There is plenty of discussion of this on the list if you want more  
details.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
                                Universal Binaries on the way
iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
       Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
       Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
       http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de

has anyone come up with a working solution to do the SMPTE timecode extraction? If so I could use some guidance/example patch, as I'll be needing this myself in project coming up.

> has anyone come up with a working solution to do the SMPTE timecode 

> extraction? If so I could use some guidance/example patch, as I'll be 

> needing this myself in project coming up.

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl

> has anyone come up with a working solution to do the SMPTE timecode 
> extraction? If so I could use some guidance/example patch, as I'll be 
> needing this myself in project coming up.

_____________________________
Patrick Delges

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl
http://www.crfmw.be/max


The MOTU interface solution sounds interesting since i have an UltraLite at my disposal.

I just don't really grasp yet how I can then get the information the Ultralite extracts from the SMPTE code into max.

The Ultralite setup should not be a problem. But how should I use this in max?

An example patch would be more than great...

The MOTU interface solution sounds interesting since i have an UltraLite at my disposal.
I just don't really grasp yet how I can then get the information the Ultralite extracts from the SMPTE code into max.
The Ultralite setup should not be a problem. But how should I use this in max?

An example patch would be more than great... 

Maybe too quick. I was thinking about their big MIDI interfaces...

The Ultrlalite can translate smpte too, but although I know it works in 

Digital Performer, I don't know about Max and can't easily test now. 

Check [adstatus timecode], in [adstatus]'s help file (although I don't 

know if somebody ever used this feature of MAx, I don't remember 

MAybe DP can receive the smpte, translate it to MTC and send it to Max.

>
> First off thanks for the quick reply!

Maybe too quick. I was thinking about their big MIDI interfaces...
The Ultrlalite can translate smpte too, but although I know it works in 
Digital Performer, I don't know about Max and can't easily test now. 
Check [adstatus timecode], in [adstatus]'s help file (although I don't 
know if somebody ever used this feature of MAx, I don't remember 
reading about it on the list).

> The Ultrlalite can translate smpte too, but although I know it works in 

> Digital Performer, I don't know about Max and can't easily test now.

I bet it will send MTC... (Don't have it, but what else should it do?...)

I still think the original question is much more interesting. Any MSP 

method to get SMPT in and out of Max? (SMPTE out should be easy, but 

It would free us from the need for expensive interfaces for ever...

Patrick Delges schrieb:
> The Ultrlalite can translate smpte too, but although I know it works in 
> Digital Performer, I don't know about Max and can't easily test now. 

I still think the original question is much more interesting. Any MSP 
method to get SMPT in and out of Max? (SMPTE out should be easy, but 
SMPTE in has to deal with all speeds...)

On 16 sept. 07, at 18:48, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>> The Ultrlalite can translate smpte too, but although I know it works 

>> in Digital Performer, I don't know about Max and can't easily test 

> I bet it will send MTC... (Don't have it, but what else should it 

It is suppposed to send a sample accurate ASIO2 timecode. And Max is 

supposed to understand it: see [adstatus]'s helpfile [p 

asio2_timecode]. But it never worked for me and I can't find much 

> Patrick Delges schrieb:
>> The Ultrlalite can translate smpte too, but although I know it works 
>> in Digital Performer, I don't know about Max and can't easily test 
>> now.
>
> I bet it will send MTC... (Don't have it, but what else should it 
> do?...)

It is suppposed to send a sample accurate ASIO2 timecode. And Max is 
supposed to understand it: see [adstatus]'s helpfile [p 
asio2_timecode]. But it never worked for me and I can't find much 
information.

> I still think the original question is much more interesting. Any MSP 

I agree, unfortunately I don't have enough MSP knowledge yet to implement it myself on a short term.

Anyhow, I'll try out the solution with the UltraLite later today/tomorrow and let you guys know if I got out of it. I'll use Peter Elsea's paper on MTC as a guidance for this.

One question I still have concerning this solution is how to interface with the UltraLite. Can I set up a midi port for an audio in channel (which is decoding the SMPTE on the MOTU hardware?) ... Or just take in the audio channel? In the last case I'm kind of in the dark as to how to relate to relate to the examples in Peter Elsea's documents (working with midiin etc.)

In the mean time, if anyone knows how to get the SMPTE translation into max working (into max is more important for me right now), any pointers how to do this would be greatly appreciated.

> I still think the original question is much more interesting. Any MSP 
> method to get SMPT in and out of Max? 

Anyhow, I'll try out the solution with the UltraLite later today/tomorrow and let you guys know if I got out of it. I'll use Peter Elsea's paper on MTC as a guidance for this.
One question I still have concerning this solution is how to interface with the UltraLite. Can I set up a midi port for an audio in channel (which is decoding the SMPTE on the MOTU hardware?) ... Or just take in the audio channel? In the last case I'm kind of in the dark as to how to relate to relate to the examples in Peter Elsea's documents (working with midiin etc.)

> It is suppposed to send a sample accurate ASIO2 timecode. And Max is 

> supposed to understand it: see [adstatus]'s helpfile [p 

> asio2_timecode]. But it never worked for me and I can't find much 

Ok, that changes the whole thing... I indeed seem to find little information about ASIO2 and adstatus... 

I will still try out the setup with my MOTU later today/tomorrow, and see what it gives. If u might have any information/links concerning the ASIO2 format, that would be great.

I'll also definitely check the [adstatus]' helpfile

> It is suppposed to send a sample accurate ASIO2 timecode. And Max is 
> supposed to understand it: see [adstatus]'s helpfile [p 
> asio2_timecode]. But it never worked for me and I can't find much 
> information.

Ok, that changes the whole thing... I indeed seem to find little information about ASIO2 and adstatus... 
I will still try out the setup with my MOTU later today/tomorrow, and see what it gives. If u might have any information/links concerning the ASIO2 format, that would be great.
I'll also definitely check the [adstatus]' helpfile

>> I still think the original question is much more interesting. Any MSP

> I agree, unfortunately I don't have enough MSP knowledge yet to 

> Anyhow, I'll try out the solution with the UltraLite later 

> today/tomorrow and let you guys know if I got out of it. I'll use 

> Peter Elsea's paper on MTC as a guidance for this.

> One question I still have concerning this solution is how to interface 

> with the UltraLite. Can I set up a midi port for an audio in channel 

> (which is decoding the SMPTE on the MOTU hardware?) ... Or just take 

> in the audio channel? In the last case I'm kind of in the dark as to 

> how to relate to relate to the examples in Peter Elsea's documents 

That's the problem: I don't think any MOTU audio interface will create 

a midi sync port nor send MTC on their MIDI port. Their big MIDI 

interfaces like the XT or MTP do: beside their regular 8 MIDI ports, 

there is also a sync port you can use in Max.

One solution is to run Digital Performer in the background (I don't 

know if it works with AudioDesk or another sequencer). Sync DP to the 

SMPTE of your Ultralite, set up the transmitted sync to MTC on an 

internal MIDI port, hit play, and analyse the data stream with Max (see 

how to decode the sysex in Peter's tutorial). But using this solution, 

your sound card has to be synced to SMPTE... Good luck

>
>> I still think the original question is much more interesting. Any MSP
>> method to get SMPT in and out of Max?
>
> I agree, unfortunately I don't have enough MSP knowledge yet to 
> implement it myself on a short term.
>
> Anyhow, I'll try out the solution with the UltraLite later 
> today/tomorrow and let you guys know if I got out of it. I'll use 
> Peter Elsea's paper on MTC as a guidance for this.
> One question I still have concerning this solution is how to interface 
> with the UltraLite. Can I set up a midi port for an audio in channel 
> (which is decoding the SMPTE on the MOTU hardware?) ... Or just take 
> in the audio channel? In the last case I'm kind of in the dark as to 
> how to relate to relate to the examples in Peter Elsea's documents 
> (working with midiin etc.)

That's the problem: I don't think any MOTU audio interface will create 
a midi sync port nor send MTC on their MIDI port. Their big MIDI 
interfaces like the XT or MTP do: beside their regular 8 MIDI ports, 
there is also a sync port you can use in Max.

One solution is to run Digital Performer in the background (I don't 
know if it works with AudioDesk or another sequencer). Sync DP to the 
SMPTE of your Ultralite, set up the transmitted sync to MTC on an 
internal MIDI port, hit play, and analyse the data stream with Max (see 
how to decode the sysex in Peter's tutorial). But using this solution, 
your sound card has to be synced to SMPTE... Good luck

as you thought, I did not get the [adstatus timecode] solution working even though it states that this feature should work with any ASIO2 compliant hardware. MOTU on its turn claims that the ultralite should work with any software that support ASIO2 sample accurate syncing...

This makes me think that the [adstatus timecode] never really worked, or only for specific hardware. can anyone from cycling confirm this?

The Digital Performer solution is not an option for me, as I am running under windows. Tomorrow I will try to make the MTC translation on the Mac that sends out the SMPTE as an audio track in the first place. This is done with ProTools so, I believe it shouldnt be any problem to make that switch. Unless I am wrong offcourse...

as you thought, I did not get the [adstatus timecode] solution working even though it states that this feature should work with any ASIO2 compliant hardware. MOTU on its turn claims that the ultralite should work with any software that support ASIO2 sample accurate syncing...
This makes me think that the [adstatus timecode] never really worked, or only for specific hardware. can anyone from cycling confirm this?

extracting SMPTE timecode embeded in an audio signal