Peiman

I've been trying to workout a way to make a spectral warper (as in 

GRM tools) in max. I came across this thread today and it seems that 

a pure msp-based patch that manipulates frequency content of 

http://www.synthesisters.com/hypermail/max-msp/Dec06/56003.html

Is csound~, FTM or some other externals the only way here? Is fft 

still so limited in max 5 (I am just in the process of purchasing max 

5), or is there some magical way to transform magnitude/phase fft 

I know that for instance Bidule and Csound work on this basis, where 

the user has access to amplitude and frequency of fft signals. It is 

particularly good in csound where you can put the data in tables and 

then easily manipulate each frequency index separately before it is 

automatically converted to the correct format for ifft resynthesis.

Any pointers are more than welcome. I have been postponing learning 

fft processing with pure msp for quite some time and now I'm very 

surprised at how limited it seems. Please give me hope!!!

I've been trying to workout a way to make a spectral warper (as in  
GRM tools) in max. I came across this thread today and it seems that  
a pure msp-based patch that manipulates frequency content of  
individual fft bins is not possible.

Is csound~, FTM or some other externals the only way here? Is fft  
still so limited in max 5 (I am just in the process of purchasing max  
5), or is there some magical way to transform magnitude/phase fft  
data to amplitude/frequency in max?

I know that for instance Bidule and Csound work on this basis, where  
the user has access to amplitude and frequency of fft signals. It is  
particularly good in csound where you can put the data in tables and  
then easily manipulate each frequency index separately before it is  
automatically converted to the correct format for ifft resynthesis.

Any pointers are more than welcome. I have been postponing learning  
fft processing with pure msp for quite some time and now I'm very  
surprised at how limited it seems. Please give me hope!!!

fft-limitations-in-msp-what

On 8 juil. 08, at 15:05, peiman khosravi wrote:

> Any pointers are more than welcome. I have been postponing learning 

> fft processing with pure msp for quite some time and now I'm very 

> surprised at how limited it seems. Please give me hope!!!

with [cartopol~] you get the energy and amplitude for each frequency 

> Any pointers are more than welcome. I have been postponing learning  
> fft processing with pure msp for quite some time and now I'm very  
> surprised at how limited it seems. Please give me hope!!!

with [cartopol~] you get the energy and amplitude for each frequency  
bin. What else do you need?

On Jul 8, 2008, at 9:05 AM, peiman khosravi wrote:

> Is csound~, FTM or some other externals the only way here? Is fft 

> still so limited in max 5 (I am just in the process of purchasing 

> max 5), or is there some magical way to transform magnitude/phase 

John Gibson has written a set of interesting spectral manipulators 

    SPECTACLE2 -- FFT-based delay (more real-time control)

    SPECTEQ2 -- FFT-based EQ (more real-time control)

    TVSPECTACLE -- FFT-based delay with time-varying properties

    VOCODESYNTH -- phase vocoder w/ oscillator-bank resynthesis

> Is csound~, FTM or some other externals the only way here? Is fft  
> still so limited in max 5 (I am just in the process of purchasing  
> max 5), or is there some magical way to transform magnitude/phase  
> fft data to amplitude/frequency in max

John Gibson has written a set of interesting spectral manipulators  
for RTcmix, they work well in rtcmix~:

	CONVOLVE1 -- FFT convolution
	PVOC -- phase vocoder
	SPECTACLE -- FFT-based delay
	SPECTACLE2 -- FFT-based delay (more real-time control)
	SPECTEQ -- FFT-based EQ
	SPECTEQ2 -- FFT-based EQ (more real-time control)
	TVSPECTACLE -- FFT-based delay with time-varying properties
	VOCODE -- phase vocoder
	VOCODE2 -- phase vocoder
	VOCODESYNTH -- phase vocoder w/ oscillator-bank resynthesis

Thanks for your reply. I am looking for a way to manipulate the 

frequency data of each bin (e.g. scale) individually using a table. 

So like the fft filter that comes with the max examples but instead 

of messing with the amplitude I want to play around with the 

frequency data. I understand (that's not to say I know how to do it 

yet!) that one could mess around with bin indexes but that's not the 

same as being able to manipulate frequency data (not as intuitive). 

Also this only allows integer bin-shifts. I need a table-driven 

gizmo~-like operation that operates on each individual bin.

So in short I'm looking to have access to amplitude and frequency as 

opposed to energy and amplitude or phase and magnitude. This would be 

much more intuitive to work with. Apologies if I'm sounding like a 

newbie! Please feel free to enlighten me, I'm very new to fft 

On 8 Jul 2008, at 14:12, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:

> On 8 juil. 08, at 15:05, peiman khosravi wrote:

>> Any pointers are more than welcome. I have been postponing 

>> learning fft processing with pure msp for quite some time and now 

>> I'm very surprised at how limited it seems. Please give me hope!!!

> with [cartopol~] you get the energy and amplitude for each 

Thanks for your reply. I am looking for a way to manipulate the  
frequency data of each bin (e.g. scale) individually using a table.  
So like the fft filter that comes with the max examples but instead  
of messing with the amplitude I want to play around with the  
frequency data. I understand (that's not to say I know how to do it  
yet!) that one could mess around with bin indexes but that's not the  
same as being able to manipulate frequency data (not as intuitive).  
Also this only allows integer bin-shifts. I need a table-driven  
gizmo~-like operation that operates on each individual bin.

So in short I'm looking to have access to amplitude and frequency as  
opposed to energy and amplitude or phase and magnitude. This would be  
much more intuitive to work with. Apologies if I'm sounding like a  
newbie! Please feel free to enlighten me, I'm very new to fft  
operations in msp.

> On 8 juil. 08, at 15:05, peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>> Any pointers are more than welcome. I have been postponing  
>> learning fft processing with pure msp for quite some time and now  
>> I'm very surprised at how limited it seems. Please give me hope!!!
>
> with [cartopol~] you get the energy and amplitude for each  
> frequency bin. What else do you need?
>
> ej
>


On 8 Jul 2008, at 14:37, Brad Garton wrote:

> On Jul 8, 2008, at 9:05 AM, peiman khosravi wrote:

>> Is csound~, FTM or some other externals the only way here? Is fft 

>> still so limited in max 5 (I am just in the process of purchasing 

>> max 5), or is there some magical way to transform magnitude/phase 

>> fft data to amplitude/frequency in max

> John Gibson has written a set of interesting spectral manipulators 

>     SPECTACLE2 -- FFT-based delay (more real-time control)

>     SPECTEQ2 -- FFT-based EQ (more real-time control)

>     TVSPECTACLE -- FFT-based delay with time-varying properties

>     VOCODESYNTH -- phase vocoder w/ oscillator-bank resynthesis

> On Jul 8, 2008, at 9:05 AM, peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>> Is csound~, FTM or some other externals the only way here? Is fft  
>> still so limited in max 5 (I am just in the process of purchasing  
>> max 5), or is there some magical way to transform magnitude/phase  
>> fft data to amplitude/frequency in max
>
> John Gibson has written a set of interesting spectral manipulators  
> for RTcmix, they work well in rtcmix~:
>
> 	CONVOLVE1 -- FFT convolution
> 	PVOC -- phase vocoder
> 	SPECTACLE -- FFT-based delay
> 	SPECTACLE2 -- FFT-based delay (more real-time control)
> 	SPECTEQ -- FFT-based EQ
> 	SPECTEQ2 -- FFT-based EQ (more real-time control)
> 	TVSPECTACLE -- FFT-based delay with time-varying properties
> 	VOCODE -- phase vocoder
> 	VOCODE2 -- phase vocoder
> 	VOCODESYNTH -- phase vocoder w/ oscillator-bank resynthesis
>
> brad
> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad
>


Hey Brad, is there any word on when RTcmix will be real-time?

> Thanks for your reply. I am looking for a way to manipulate the

> frequency data of each bin (e.g. scale) individually using a table.

I find a jitter matrix very convenient to manipulate amplitude/phase

difference information. I would encourage to you use a jitter matrix instead

I posted several examples on my share page. They are based on the

amplitude/phase difference information. Example 4-explore-the-sonogram shows

https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share/Jean-francoisCharles

> Thanks for your reply. I am looking for a way to manipulate the
> frequency data of each bin (e.g. scale) individually using a table.

I find a jitter matrix very convenient to manipulate amplitude/phase
difference information. I would encourage to you use a jitter matrix instead
of a table.
I posted several examples on my share page. They are based on the
amplitude/phase difference information. Example 4-explore-the-sonogram shows
conversion to frequency information.

fft limitations in msp: what!!??