KillingFrenzy

It appears that the file browser window cannot be integrated directly into a patch... before I tear my hair out trying, is this the case?

Dragging and dropping is not an option, since on Windows, selecting a different window causes a pause in output in Jitter. Besides, dragging and dropping is like playing a piano by throwing fish at it.

It appears that the file browser window cannot be integrated directly into a patch...  before I tear my hair out trying, is this the case?
Dragging and dropping is not an option, since on Windows, selecting a different window causes a pause in output in Jitter.  Besides, dragging and dropping is like playing a piano by throwing fish at it.


file-browser-3

On 2008 Apr 28, at 1:44 PM, Leo Mayberry wrote:

> It appears that the file browser window cannot be integrated 

> directly into a patch... before I tear my hair out trying, is this 

> Besides, dragging and dropping is like playing a piano by throwing 

This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested in 

On 2008 Apr 28, at 1:44 PM, Leo Mayberry wrote:
>
> It appears that the file browser window cannot be integrated  
> directly into a patch...  before I tear my hair out trying, is this  
> the case?

> Besides, dragging and dropping is like playing a piano by throwing  
> fish at it.

This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young.  I would be interested in  
seeing a performance!

I always assumed that the reason Max had eschewed a file browser object was that the programmers had something better to do than build something the user could customize to their own liking (albeit cludgily and resource hoggily). But given that time was spent building this complicated file browser, why wouldn't it be integrated as an object? Moreso, why wouldn't it have at least some better bridging technique than dragging and dropping? A receive messages from file browser object would help. 

I guess I got my hopes up when I realized you could customize the browser. I had a moment of brief excitement as I tried to select the file browser pieces and paste them into a patch. BUZZ! Wrong.

Please consider taking the components that compromise the file browser interface and creating object versions of them.

I'd furthermore like to suggest that just as a general philosophy anything that is generating content or a display of some sort be able to output that information beyond the bounds of the gui. Examples being scopes and the jweb object. Using jit.desktop as a way to capture part of the screen to get the image into a malleable format is a resource heavy and sloppy technique. Especially if people are actually using a multi-windowed environment where windows are moved about all the time (not my case, but seemingly the paradigm). Even if it was some sort of weird "gui dump" outlet and a "Gui render" object, it could be very useful. It would be much easier to just display a table than to take all the information in that table and create a text based display of that information through other objects.

Digression aside, I'd really love a more integrated approach to the file browser, otherwise I'd rather just turn it off and not have it wasting time keeping track of my content since a system or third-party browser could serve in the same capacity.

I've never had a problem browsing and loading patches, I've always had difficulty devising methods of browsing content while performing. An integrated solution from Cycling74 would be as valuable as any of the workflow improvements I've seen in Max 5. If they integrate the browser, I'll rent a piano and perform the above piece for piano, fish and human. Though it sounds dangerously close to the video for "Epic."

I always assumed that the reason Max had eschewed a file browser object was that the programmers had something better to do than build something the user could customize to their own liking (albeit cludgily and resource hoggily).  But given that time was spent building this complicated file browser, why wouldn't it be integrated as an object?  Moreso, why wouldn't it have at least some better bridging technique than dragging and dropping?  A receive messages from file browser object would help. 
I guess I got my hopes up when I realized you could customize the browser.  I had a moment of brief excitement as I tried to select the file browser pieces and paste them into a patch.  BUZZ! Wrong.
Please consider taking the components that compromise the file browser interface and creating object versions of them.

I'd furthermore like to suggest that just as a general philosophy anything that is generating content or a display of some sort be able to output that information beyond the bounds of the gui.  Examples being scopes and the jweb object.   Using jit.desktop as a way to capture part of the screen to get the image into a malleable format is a resource heavy and sloppy technique.  Especially if people are actually using a multi-windowed environment where windows are moved about all the time (not my case, but seemingly the paradigm).   Even if it was some sort of weird "gui dump" outlet and a "Gui render" object, it could be very useful.  It would be much easier to just display a table than to take all the information in that table and create a text based display of that information through other objects.

Digression aside, I'd really love a more integrated approach to the file browser, otherwise I'd rather just turn it off and not have it wasting time keeping track of my content since a system or third-party browser could serve in the same capacity.
I've never had a problem browsing and loading patches, I've always had difficulty devising methods of browsing content while performing.  An integrated solution from Cycling74 would be as valuable as any of the workflow improvements I've seen in Max 5.  If they integrate the browser, I'll rent a piano and perform the above piece for piano, fish and human. Though it sounds dangerously close to the video for "Epic."


Thanks for your interest and comments. A couple of notes...

Almost everything in the file browser is made up of components you 

have access to. For example, the preview area is done with a 

combination of the imovie, jweb, fpic, etc. objects. The listing of 

files could mostly be duplicated with jit.cellblock and the folder 

There are a number of things that can't be done this way at the 

moment. However we are planning to support access to the database 

using the js object in the near future. This should allow you to do 

all kinds of a crazy and integrated things like it sounds like you 

It sounds like you are displeased with drag-and-drop. The only 

alternative you mentioned was having a specially named send-receive 

pair or something. That's not an idea that had ever crossed my mind 

before. I can't promise that it will be implemented, but I'm curious 

how you envision it working. Maybe something could be added down the 

road. If there are other alternatives to drag and drop, I'm curious 

(and yes, I still want to see a performance of someone throwing fish 

Thanks for your interest and comments.  A couple of notes...

Almost everything in the file browser is made up of components you  
have access to.  For example, the preview area is done with a  
combination of the imovie, jweb, fpic, etc. objects.  The listing of  
files could mostly be duplicated with jit.cellblock and the folder  
object.

There are a number of things that can't be done this way at the  
moment.  However we are planning to support access to the database  
using the js object in the near future.  This should allow you to do  
all kinds of a crazy and integrated things like it sounds like you  
desire.

It sounds like you are displeased with drag-and-drop.  The only  
alternative you mentioned was having a specially named send-receive  
pair or something.  That's not an idea that had ever crossed my mind  
before.  I can't promise that it will be implemented, but I'm curious  
how you envision it working.  Maybe something could be added down the  
road.  If there are other alternatives to drag and drop, I'm curious  
what they are too.

(and yes, I still want to see a performance of someone throwing fish  
at a piano :-)


I did a "rant check" and tried dragging and dropping... just to make sure it wasn't one of those things that magically works all of the sudden. The real problem is that any action that involves leaving the patch that you are using to click on another window causes Jitter to freeze as you click on the new window. So, even my send/receive idea isn't really very useful because you'd still have to be clicking on the browser window, then going back to use any Gui elements in your patcher. The only way I can see this working is having the browser be in the patch. It sounds like there might be some way to access the query functions eventually, but I'm back to square one of using a bunch of objects to build a browser. 

The day I can go to the gui menu and pick a little file browser image and drag and drop that onto a max patch, is the day I'll be booking a venue and ordering up shad. 

The only thing that got me so excited in the first place was unlocking the browser and thinking I could just copy that over to a patch.

I did a "rant check" and tried dragging and dropping... just to make sure it wasn't one of those things that magically works all of the sudden.  The real problem is that any action that involves leaving the patch that you are using to click on another window causes Jitter to freeze as you click on the new window.  So, even my send/receive idea isn't really very useful because you'd still have to be clicking on the browser window, then going back to use any Gui elements in your patcher.  The only way I can see this working is having the browser be in the patch.  It sounds like there might be some way to access the query functions eventually, but I'm back to square one of using a bunch of objects to build a browser. 
   The day I can go to the gui menu and pick a little file browser image and drag and drop that onto a max patch, is the day I'll be booking a venue and ordering up shad. 
   The only thing that got me so excited in the first place was unlocking the browser and thinking I could just copy that over to a patch.


> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested in 

Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation...?

Timothy Place schrieb:
> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young.  I would be interested in 
> seeing a performance!

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


> The real problem is that any action that involves leaving the patch

> that you are using to click on another window causes Jitter to freeze

I thought most drag and drop is used while patching, or preparing a 

patch to do its beauty. The frame drop is probably an OS issue (are you 

I usually fill up u(bu)menus to have access to a given list of files. A 

certain organisation of files is required for that, but that shouldn't 

In short words, I don't see the real problem. Its sounds its a show 

stopper for you, just wondering what show I am missing...

Leo Mayberry schrieb:
> The real problem is that any action that involves leaving the patch
> that you are using to click on another window causes Jitter to freeze
> as you click on the new window.

I thought most drag and drop is used while patching, or preparing a 
patch to do its beauty. The frame drop is probably an OS issue (are you 
using Mac or windows?).
I usually fill up u(bu)menus to have access to a given list of files. A 
certain organisation of files is required for that, but that shouldn't 
be too hard....

In short words, I don't see the real problem. Its sounds its a show 
stopper for you, just wondering what show I am missing...

On 2008 Apr 29, at 8:36 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested 

> Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation...?

It's just a matter of selecting the correct scales. :-)

On 2008 Apr 29, at 8:36 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> Timothy Place schrieb:
>> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young.  I would be interested  
>> in seeing a performance!
>
> Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation...?

It's just a matter of selecting the correct scales.  :-)
   Tim


On 29 Apr 2008, at 14:36, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

You can tune a violin, but you can't tuna fish.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net


On 29 Apr 2008, at 14:48, Timothy Place wrote:

> It's just a matter of selecting the correct scales. :-)

I was going to say - it depends if the fish is a bass - but then, I've 

Nick Rothwell - nick@cassiel.com - www.cassiel.com

--- open-source goodies for MaxMSP: Python, Groovy, Nixie Tubes,

--- rotatable text bricks, databases: all at www.loadbang.net

> It's just a matter of selecting the correct scales.  :-)

I was going to say - it depends if the fish is a bass - but then, I've  
done the Marx Bros. joke already.

Nick Rothwell - nick@cassiel.com - www.cassiel.com
--- open-source goodies for MaxMSP: Python, Groovy, Nixie Tubes,
--- rotatable text bricks, databases: all at www.loadbang.net


On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:

> You can tune a violin, but you can't tuna fish.

I'm sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce 

I'm sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce  
different pitches;-)

boy, nothing like a couple of hours of pitching fishes!

On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:

> On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:

>> You can tune a violin, but you can't tuna fish.

> I'm sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce 

"Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane."

boy, nothing like a couple of hours of pitching fishes!
b

> On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:
>
>> You can tune a violin, but you can't tuna fish.
>
>
> I'm sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce  
> different pitches;-)
>
> ej
>
>

"Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane."
Philip K. Dick


Quote: Timothy Place wrote on Tue, 29 April 2008 07:48

----------------------------------------------------

> On 2008 Apr 29, at 8:36 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> >> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested 

> > Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation...?

Quote: Timothy Place wrote on Tue, 29 April 2008 07:48
----------------------------------------------------
> On 2008 Apr 29, at 8:36 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> > Timothy Place schrieb:
> >> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young.  I would be interested  
> >> in seeing a performance!
> >
> > Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation...?
>
> It's just a matter of selecting the correct scales.  :-)
>    Tim
>
>
----------------------------------------------------

I would suggest populating a ubumenu with your video 

selections and use the File browser for building things.

While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring 

up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?

I know I could create a patcher, drag the object in, and 

alt+LeftClick to get help. But it would be nice to be 

I would suggest populating a ubumenu with your video 
selections and use the File browser for building things.

While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring 
up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?
I know I could create a patcher, drag the object in, and 
alt+LeftClick to get help. But it would be nice to be 
able to get help in the browser.


On 2008 Apr 29, at 9:13 AM, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:

I think this depends whether or not the fish was raised "in sea".

On 2008 Apr 29, at 9:13 AM, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:
> On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:
>
>> You can tune a violin, but you can't tuna fish.
>
> I'm sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce  
> different pitches;-)

I think this depends whether or not the fish was raised "in sea".
best,
   Tim


On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

> While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring

> up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?

Turn on preview in the browser, and you'll get links to the help 

On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:
> While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring
> up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?

Turn on preview in the browser, and you'll get links to the help  
patcher and the reference.

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com	
http://www.xfade.com

a subpatch called playplaySG1st (don't ask!), (which lives inside a 

If I create [poly~ playplaySG1st 2 args one] I consistently get the 

If I look at the inside of the poly~ I see the object [play~ one], as 

[play~ ] is ok with a single argument, so why the "requires 

additional argument" message? There are no other objects with variable 

names inside the subpatch. It's significant, because the play~ object 

a subpatch called playplaySG1st (don't ask!), (which  lives inside a  
poly~ ), contains the object [play~ #1]

If I create [poly~ playplaySG1st 2 args one]  I consistently get the  
message:

If I look at the inside of the poly~ I see the object [play~ one], as  
I would expect.

[play~   ] is ok with a single argument, so why the "requires  
additional argument" message? There are no other objects with variable  
names inside the subpatch. It's significant, because the play~ object  
isn't working.

On 2008 Apr 29, at 10:13 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

> I would suggest populating a ubumenu with your video

> selections and use the File browser for building things.

> I know I could create a patcher, drag the object in, and

> alt+LeftClick to get help. But it would be nice to be

If the preview pane is showing, there is a link there that you can 

click. If the help patchers are what you are looking at in the 

filebrowser then you can simply double-click them.

On 2008 Apr 29, at 10:13 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:
>
> I would suggest populating a ubumenu with your video
> selections and use the File browser for building things.
>
> While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring
> up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?
> I know I could create a patcher, drag the object in, and
> alt+LeftClick to get help. But it would be nice to be
> able to get help in the browser.

If the preview pane is showing, there is a link there that you can  
click.  If the help patchers are what you are looking at in the  
filebrowser then you can simply double-click them.

> There are a number of things that can't be done this way at the moment.

> However we are planning to support access to the database using the js

> object in the near future. This should allow you to do all kinds of a crazy

> and integrated things like it sounds like you desire.

I always felt that one of the things that had been missing in Max was

inbuilt access to a more powerful database, and although some of the size

restrictions for the storage objects that are available now have gone (or

are greatly increased). Seeing how well SQLite works in the browser I

welcome the fact that it will be made available in max.

>
> There are a number of things that can't be done this way at the moment.
>  However we are planning to support access to the database using the js
> object in the near future.  This should allow you to do all kinds of a crazy
> and integrated things like it sounds like you desire.

I always felt that one of the things that had been missing in Max was
inbuilt access to a more powerful database, and although some of the size
restrictions for the storage objects that are available now have gone (or
are greatly increased).  Seeing how well SQLite works in the browser I
welcome the fact that it will be made available in max.

Just to add that I created and saved a simple patch (testplay) 

Then loaded it into an empty patch with [poly~ testplay 2 args one] 

and I still get the "requires additional argument" message

On 29 Apr 2008, at 17:38, David Stevens wrote:

> a subpatch called playplaySG1st (don't ask!), (which lives inside a 

> poly~ ), contains the object [play~ #1]

> If I create [poly~ playplaySG1st 2 args one] I consistently get the 

> If I look at the inside of the poly~ I see the object [play~ one], 

> [play~ ] is ok with a single argument, so why the "requires 

> additional argument" message? There are no other objects with 

> variable names inside the subpatch. It's significant, because the 

Just to add that I created and saved a simple patch (testplay)  
containing only a single [play~ #1]

Then loaded it into an empty patch with [poly~ testplay 2 args one]   
and I still get the "requires additional argument" message

> Converting a v4 patch to v5.
>
> a subpatch called playplaySG1st (don't ask!), (which  lives inside a  
> poly~ ), contains the object [play~ #1]
>
> If I create [poly~ playplaySG1st 2 args one]  I consistently get the  
> message:
>
> one:requires additional argument
>
> If I look at the inside of the poly~ I see the object [play~ one],  
> as I would expect.
>
> [play~   ] is ok with a single argument, so why the "requires  
> additional argument" message? There are no other objects with  
> variable names inside the subpatch. It's significant, because the  
> play~ object isn't working.
>
> Que pasa????
>
>
> David


Excited about the File Browser potential.

How do tags work? Well I think I know how they should work. How does one

tag their own files? Be nice to be able to do it from the FileBrowser in

Multi-Select non-contiguous! And Drag create to create coll, or umenu

Need AND/OR option for multiple lines of a query.

Option to create read absolute path messages

#1
How do tags work? Well I think I know how they should work.  How does one
tag their own files?  Be nice to be able to do it from the FileBrowser in
order to build collections quickly.

#2
Multi-Select non-contiguous! And Drag create to create coll, or umenu

#3
Need AND/OR option for multiple lines of a query.

#4
Option to create read absolute path messages

Don't mix it up with different platsches... Though if you throw them 

into the piano, the tuning of the piano is probably dominant...

But I doubt La Monte Young would allow detuned fish, even if you can't 

Detuned fish would make up a nice title for a piece...

Emmanuel Jourdan schrieb:
> I'm sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce 
> different pitches;-)

Don't mix it up with different platsches... Though if you throw them 
into the piano, the tuning of the piano is probably dominant...
But I doubt La Monte Young would allow detuned fish, even if you can't 
hear it...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

I have a quick question about the file browser.

In the current Max 5.01(xp), if a select a file and 

then press "Reveal in Explorer", should it not bring

up windows explorer showing me the directory

containing the file. Currently it does not...

I have a quick question about the file browser.
In the current Max 5.01(xp), if a select a file and 
then press "Reveal in Explorer", should it not bring
up windows explorer showing me the directory
containing the file. Currently it does not...


I'm also very interested in how the tags thing works. It could be very powerful. I tried to see if the file browser could read some tags I made in Sound Miner and Sample Manager without too much success. Audio file metadata seems to be a wild and wooly frontier land. Can we get some clarification on how it's supposed to work in M5?

On 2008 May 27, at 9:32 PM, Jim Bell wrote:

> I'm also very interested in how the tags thing works. It could be 

> very powerful. I tried to see if the file browser could read some 

> tags I made in Sound Miner and Sample Manager without too much 

> success. Audio file metadata seems to be a wild and wooly frontier 

> land. Can we get some clarification on how it's supposed to work in 

The facilities for user-added tags have not been "unlocked" yet. They 

will be made available in a future update.

> I'm also very interested in how the tags thing works. It could be  
> very powerful. I tried to see if the file browser could read some  
> tags I made in Sound Miner and Sample Manager without too much  
> success. Audio file metadata seems to be a wild and wooly frontier  
> land. Can we get some clarification on how it's supposed to work in  
> M5?

The facilities for user-added tags have not been "unlocked" yet.  They  
will be made available in a future update.
best,
   Tim


should we expect to see this in a "near future" or "distant future" update?

i know that it may not be possible to answer that, but it would be nice to know when we might see it and/or how it will work.

in the max 5 previews, the tags and the ability to have user defined tags (e.g., as mentioned on 

https://cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559