are the iCE objects worth the price ?
I was thinking about building my own sequencers (just ordered maxmsp and I’ve read a couple of books on max..) , but then I read an interesting post that got me thinking – why not just use the ones I have (ableton/numerology) and process midi with max?
well, has anyone tried the iCE objects ? are they worth the cost ? will it save me alot of time, or are they especially useful ?
just fishing for opinions,,,
thanks in advance
From my experiance of trying to sequence in max (i had the bright idea last year and soon hit ‘the wall) its probably a little too much trouble to be worthit.
I cant say I have used ICE, which may prove differently – so by no means take my words as the end of everything. I found a simplistic way of controlling things using lots of Coll documents and some buffers, which worked o.k. However- if you were planning to build a large scale standalone a la cubase, logic etc etc, you’d probably find max a bit of a pain as far as processing, when that much data is going through it, + underlying cost of max being a frontend of sorts running on a C platform, max would probably struggle to perform as well as something like the big sequencers.
Also if you have only just ordered max, and have not used it much before, its probably best to get used to the internal objects before spending any money out extra.
My money would be on rewiring or soundflowering to your fav sequencer.
Hope this gives you some food for thought
Thats pretty much what I’m thinking..if I dont make my own..(rewire/soundflower)
I’m not talking about something full blown like logic tho, say for example a 16 step sequencer…similar to the machinedrum in that you could sequence CC numbers per step, and slide the CC’s from one step to the next…
also probability per step, perhaps even per parameter per step.
and having a step in one pattern launch another, etc…
But all 16/32/64 step style sequencing…
I own an elektron machinedrum & a quasimidi polymorph, and I like old skool 16 step sequencer styles……so I’m looking to create my own bastard child of these lovely interfaces I’m used to.
If it proves to be not worth the effort, I guess I’ll just rely on numerology.
I’d settle for simply pattern creation – I could record the output into ableton live, and take it from there. Or sequence my hardware, and record the audio as well…
what do you think ?
On Nov 17, 2006, at 3:10 AM, jellytots wrote:
> Thats pretty much what I’m thinking..if I dont make my own..(rewire/
> I’m not talking about something full blown like logic tho, say for
> example a 16 step sequencer…similar to the machinedrum in that
> you could sequence CC numbers per step, and slide the CC’s from one
> step to the next…
> also probability per step, perhaps even per parameter per step.
> and having a step in one pattern launch another, etc…
> But all 16/32/64 step style sequencing…
> I own an elektron machinedrum & a quasimidi polymorph, and I like
> old skool 16 step sequencer styles……so I’m looking to create my
> own bastard child of these lovely interfaces I’m used to.
> If it proves to be not worth the effort, I guess I’ll just rely on
> I’d settle for simply pattern creation – I could record the output
> into ableton live, and take it from there. Or sequence my hardware,
> and record the audio as well…
> what do you think ?
Sounds wonderful! You can definitely accomplish all this in Max/MSP,
with or without iCE, although iCE might make it easier from what I’ve
I have a synthetic rhythm manipulation patch I use for both studio
and live work, synced to midi clock with the output ReWired into
Live. Works perfectly, and built with only standard Max objects. It
sequences and manipulates up to 16 steps at variable tempos on each
channel, driving built-in synth or sampled drums and also pumping out
midi, interfaced to two Monome 40h units for real-time pattern creation.
I used to run an earlier, midi-less version by itself, recording each
of 8 channels into individual buffers then saving them out at the end
and importing them into Live for editing. ReWire is now much more
stable than it was for me then and a much better solution.
But be warned: mine evolved rather organically over the course of a
couple years. I’m currently working on the third revision, having
planned it out in much greater detail. Sort your design first, then
patch. Your first re-design will be farther in the future that way. ;)
That said… Numerology is *excellent.*
The first thing I ever did with Max was to build a 16
step (midi) sequencer, and I’m still using it today
It seemed to me at the time, that Max was just made
for that kind of thing, and it was a great project to
learn Max with.
Of course when MSP came along, I added built-in audio
bits, but for quite some time I was using it to
control external hardware and software synths via OMS
IAC and eventually Rewire, and it did a sterling job
(well, notwithstanding timing issues with IAC, which
was pretty crap in that department- it makes metro
look rock solid ;-))
The whole thing has grown considerably since then, and
spawned lots of other ideas, but then that’s the
beauty of Max – it’s perfect for iterative design.
My only word of advice is to keep encapsulating – it’s
too easy to keep adding things and then find a few
years down the line that it’s grown into an
impenetrable monster. The ‘encapsulate’ command is the
dog’s bollocks, though beware, it can sometimes
connect the wrong inlets, if you’re not careful with
On 17-Nov-2006, at 0:47, jellytots wrote:
> well, has anyone tried the iCE objects ? are they worth the cost ?
> will it save me alot of time, or are they especially useful ?
We think they’re worth the cost and that they will save you lots of
time and that they are especially useful.
If you haven’t done so already, you might want to take a look at
Nortron, which was built using iCE tools. There’s a downloadable demo
at < http://www.dspaudio.com/software/nortron/nortron_demo.html>.
> just fishing for opinions,,,
Best — Peter
————– http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ————-
Peter Castine +–> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
Universal Binaries on the way
iCE: Sequencing, Recording &
Interface Building for |home | chez nous|
Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|
I remember downloading some simple sequencers called the quickstart objects. These were simple abstractions of a 16 step sequencer for 127 cc midi values and 5 different drum style bang sequence matrix. They were really helpful and all you have to do is load them as batcher windows and hook in a metro. then you can just hook those out into a ctlout with whatever midi channel and cc value you want. Ill try and upload my patch that does this later and it may work for you. I even added a little feature that allows you to hook your midi ins and outs in a circle to the computer and when you click a bang button on max and then tweak a knob it auto-latches that knob to the 16 step. You can get some really cool future-acid lines like that.
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