psykel

Hey there, after exhausting searches here and on google, I decided to ask. I have "Maxed" out my knowledge of patching and abstraction methods in max/msp, and have found the need to start creating my own externals so that I can move forward in some of my projects. I realize there are documents concerning using java to develop externals in the documentation that comes with max, but I have failed in finding any up to date resources that are based in C/C++ or any other solid ways for mac osx. Is there anyone that can point me in the right direction? Thanks!

looking-for-development-resources

The latest SDK is the 4.6.3, while the latest one with documentation is 

the 4.5.5. Apart from this, you'll find a lot of useful info at

And whenever you don't find a proper answer for your questions there, 

you are welcome to post them to this list. :-)

P.S. I don't really understand what you mean by 'solid ways'. I think 

Java is a quite solid/robust language, and in many cases it's much 

easier to code externals in Java than in C/C++ for Max. So you might 

have a look on how to create Java-based externals for Max as well...

> Hey there, after exhausting searches here and on google, I decided to ask. I have "Maxed" out my knowledge of patching and abstraction methods in max/msp, and have found the need to start creating my own externals so that I can move forward in some of my projects. I realize there are documents concerning using java to develop externals in the documentation that comes with max, but I have failed in finding any up to date resources that are based in C/C++ or any other solid ways for mac osx. Is there anyone that can point me in the right direction? Thanks!

The latest SDK is the 4.6.3, while the latest one with documentation is 
the 4.5.5. Apart from this, you'll find a lot of useful info at

And whenever you don't find a proper answer for your questions there, 
you are welcome to post them to this list. :-)

P.S. I don't really understand what you mean by 'solid ways'. I think 
Java is a quite solid/robust language, and in many cases it's much 
easier to code externals in Java than in C/C++ for Max. So you might 
have a look on how to create Java-based externals for Max as well...

Eric Wafford wrote:
> Hey there, after exhausting searches here and on google, I decided to ask. I have "Maxed" out my knowledge of patching and abstraction methods in max/msp, and have found the need to start creating my own externals so that I can move forward in some of my projects. I realize there are documents concerning using java to develop externals in the documentation that comes with max, but I have failed in finding any up to date resources that are based in C/C++ or any other solid ways for mac osx. Is there anyone that can point me in the right direction? Thanks!
>
>
>


by solid ways I just meant all the sources I was turning up on google were either old, poorly documented, or pertaining to depreciated Code Warrior information. I am more then willing to do coding of externals in java, but was under the assumption that the more traditional approach would be to actually use C/C++ and compile a standalone external as apposed to wrapping it in the mxj external. Are externals written in Java any more cpu expensive then a compiled c/c++ external? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to going either route? Trying to figure out which way I would like to go... Thanks for the info!

well, I don't know exactly what you've found on google, but if you 

followed the links I sent in a previous mail, you'd get everything you 

needed. There's a file called 'WritingExternals.pdf' in the 4.5.5 SDK, 

which will describe everything you need to start coding an external in 

C/C++, and there's a tutorial available where they describe how to set 

up Xcode to build universal binary externals. Also there were many 

threads before on this list, which you could find by searching the 

archieves. However, if you have a Mac and you'd like to use Xcode, the 

simpliest thing you can do is to copy an example external from the 

appropriate example folder of the 4.6.3 SDK, and then you can modify the 

source code as you wish (again, you should read the 

'WritingExternals.pdf' to get info about the SDK routines). To be 

honest, these docs are a bit outdated, and they're a bit messy in some 

terms, but Cycling '74 pointed out several times that after launching 

Max 5 they'd give us a new, clean and updated SDK and documentation 

(imho that would still take some time for them, as now they have to care 

on many other things as well, like Tiger vs. Leopard issues or the new 

For the C/C++/Java issue, I think that basically it doesn't really 

matter what you choose. Afaik there is not a big performance difference 

(in some circumstances it might happen that a Java-based external would 

be more efficient than a C-based one), and you can do basically almost 

everything with the Java SDK as well (of course, there are many things 

that weren't ported to Java, so for some special usages you can't really 

choose, but normally you can). What you really have to note is that the 

C/C++ SDK is something that was continuously developed for the last 20 

years (at least), so although you can do everything with C/C++, the 

concept how things work is not always very clear (this is a quite normal 

thing if you consider that Cycling '74 tries to keep the SDK 

backward-compatible as much as they can), and the whole concept is 

somewhere between real OO paradigm and 'old-schoolish' pure procedural 

ideas, while the Java SDK is quite new and uniform (although you can't 

do everything with it that could be done in a 'traditional' Max/MSP 

external), and it's fully OO (using Java, you can't choose other ways). 

I think if you start from scratch it's usually much easier to code an 

external in Java, but that's not always the case. I usually write C++ 

and Java externals as well (sometimes also C), and I choose the 

implementation language just like when I have to choose a language in 

any other coding task. So if you are familiar with C/C++ and Java as 

well, you might want to learn both SDKs and then choose the appropriate 

> by solid ways I just meant all the sources I was turning up on google were either old, poorly documented, or pertaining to depreciated Code Warrior information. I am more then willing to do coding of externals in java, but was under the assumption that the more traditional approach would be to actually use C/C++ and compile a standalone external as apposed to wrapping it in the mxj external. Are externals written in Java any more cpu expensive then a compiled c/c++ external? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to going either route? Trying to figure out which way I would like to go... Thanks for the info!

well, I don't know exactly what you've found on google, but if you 
followed the links I sent in a previous mail, you'd get everything you 
needed. There's a file called 'WritingExternals.pdf' in the 4.5.5 SDK, 
which will describe everything you need to start coding an external in 
C/C++, and there's a tutorial available where they describe how to set 
up Xcode to build universal binary externals. Also there were many 
threads before on this list, which you could find by searching the 
archieves. However, if you have a Mac and you'd like to use Xcode, the 
simpliest thing you can do is to copy an example external from the 
appropriate example folder of the 4.6.3 SDK, and then you can modify the 
source code as you wish (again, you should read the 
'WritingExternals.pdf' to get info about the SDK routines). To be 
honest, these docs are a bit outdated, and they're a bit messy in some 
terms, but Cycling '74 pointed out several times that after launching 
Max 5 they'd give us a new, clean and updated SDK and documentation 
(imho that would still take some time for them, as now they have to care 
on many other things as well, like Tiger vs. Leopard issues or the new 
Max 5). So please be a bit patient. :-)

For the C/C++/Java issue, I think that basically it doesn't really 
matter what you choose. Afaik there is not a big performance difference 
(in some circumstances it might happen that a Java-based external would 
be more efficient than a C-based one), and you can do basically almost 
everything with the Java SDK as well (of course, there are many things 
that weren't ported to Java, so for some special usages you can't really 
choose, but normally you can). What you really have to note is that the 
C/C++ SDK is something that was continuously developed for the last 20 
years (at least), so although you can do everything with C/C++, the 
concept how things work is not always very clear (this is a quite normal 
thing if you consider that Cycling '74 tries to keep the SDK 
backward-compatible as much as they can), and the whole concept is 
somewhere between real OO paradigm and 'old-schoolish' pure procedural 
ideas, while the Java SDK is quite new and uniform (although you can't 
do everything with it that could be done in a 'traditional' Max/MSP 
external), and it's fully OO (using Java, you can't choose other ways). 
I think if you start from scratch it's usually much easier to code an 
external in Java, but that's not always the case. I usually write C++ 
and Java externals as well (sometimes also C), and I choose the 
implementation language just like when I have to choose a language in 
any other coding task. So if you are familiar with C/C++ and Java as 
well, you might want to learn both SDKs and then choose the appropriate 
language from project to project.

________________
Siska Ádám
+36 (70) 207-63-85
http://www.sadam.hu/

Eric Wafford wrote:
> by solid ways I just meant all the sources I was turning up on google were either old, poorly documented, or pertaining to depreciated Code Warrior information. I am more then willing to do coding of externals in java, but was under the assumption that the more traditional approach would be to actually use C/C++ and compile a standalone external as apposed to wrapping it in the mxj external. Are externals written in Java any more cpu expensive then a compiled c/c++ external? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to going either route? Trying to figure out which way I would like to go... Thanks for the info!
>
>
>

Thank you very much for the explanation. I have a decent understanding of both C++ and Java, and will look into development as suggested. Thanks for the help!

Quote: psykel wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 04:40

----------------------------------------------------

> Thank you very much for the explanation. I have a decent understanding of both C++ and Java, and will look into development as suggested. Thanks for the help!

There doesn't happen to be a link between psykel and Psycle, does there?

Quote: psykel wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 04:40
----------------------------------------------------
> Thank you very much for the explanation. I have a decent understanding of both C++ and Java, and will look into development as suggested. Thanks for the help!
----------------------------------------------------

as you can imagine I think most of the developers on this list are

busy getting their heads around Max 5 -- perhaps to *best* answer your

question there is no single best repository for investigating how to

write your own externals in Java or any language for that matter; but

i would definitely recommend going to maxobjects because it made an

attempt of preserving a tree of different sets of branches and

repositories of third party externals. in all major respects, there

isn't a huge amount of churn in Max 5 (although C74 can prove that

wrong soon) of how to implement and use the API; definitely check that

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Eric Wafford wrote:

as you can imagine I think most of the developers on this list are
busy getting their heads around Max 5 -- perhaps to *best* answer your
question there is no single best repository for investigating how to
write your own externals in Java or any language for that matter; but
i would definitely recommend going to maxobjects because it made an
attempt of preserving a tree of different sets of branches and
repositories of third party externals. in all major respects, there
isn't a huge amount of churn in Max 5  (although C74 can prove that
wrong soon) of how to implement and use the API; definitely check that
site.

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Eric Wafford  wrote:
>
> Not that I am aware of...
>


Looking for Development resources