sono

Roughly two weeks ago I tuned in to the Apple event with full excitement about the new MacBook Pro that would finally replace my 2010 model. I expected a 'shut up and take my money' situation. How disappointed I was.. I didn't order it (yet), and am now seriously considering changing to a Windows machine, but I didn't make up my mind yet. At all.

So, I was wondering what the opinions around here are. Max is my professional focal point and therefore an important factor in a deal maker or breaker. Besides that there are a bunch of considerations that need to be taken into account when choosing a new laptop that will hold on to a pro level for at least 3 years or so.

When I analyse the pros and cons of the 2016 MBP this is my list:

- Only 256Gb standard storage and very expensive to expand

- Only USB-C ports - which is not an industry standard yet - and means I need to spend an additional 150 EUR on adapters. I cannot even use a simple USB drive (!)

- A touch bar in stead of a touch screen. Touch screens on laptops aren't the future, they have been 'now' for already a while. Integrating it seems a no-brainer to me. A touch bar seems way below standard in interfacing technology.

- Although designed for the pro market, Apple advertises it being thinner and lighter: I don't care. Ports and performance please. It seems more like a fancy consumer show-off product than sincerely designed for professionals.

- The price. A modestly upgraded 15" model is over 3000 EUR (3200 USD). Similar specs in a Windows laptop is almost half the price (!)

- Here in Europe Apple adds around 400 USD because of so called EU taxes, which leaves a strange taste because of recent Apples tax evasion scandals. They lose my sympathy to the point where they act like criminals.

- I have been a -very- satisfied Mac user for over 10 years, it will take time, effort and irritation to change platform

- Most of my professional surroundings (still) work on Mac, making professional exchange and collaboration more manageable

- Probably better support for Max, although I am not sure

I am curious what your considerations regarding this issue are. Also I am curious about Windows users and their experiences, as opposed to Mac or in general. Lastly, I would like to know about support and compatibility regarding Max. I don't use that many externals, but if I'm right there is more for Mac than for Windows (?).

In the end I want a powerful and reliable machine to work with audio and a little video. I am willing to pay more if in return I get a machine that I can trust, is up to my standards, and stays like that for a while. But if for half the price I can get the same - or even more - in a Windows laptop, I might be willing to go trough the burden of changing platforms. But I would feel more certain about this when I knew more developers like me go on through to the other side...

Cons
- Only 16Gb of non upgradable RAM
- Only 256Gb standard storage and very expensive to expand
- Only USB-C ports - which is not an industry standard yet - and means I need to spend an additional 150 EUR on adapters. I cannot even use a simple USB drive (!)
- A touch bar in stead of a touch screen. Touch screens on laptops aren't the future, they have been 'now' for already a while. Integrating it seems a no-brainer to me. A touch bar seems way below standard in interfacing technology.
- Although designed for the pro market, Apple advertises it being thinner and lighter: I don't care. Ports and performance please. It seems more like a fancy consumer show-off product than sincerely designed for professionals.
- The price. A modestly upgraded 15" model is over 3000 EUR (3200 USD). Similar specs in a Windows laptop is almost half the price (!)
- Here in Europe Apple adds around 400 USD because of so called EU taxes, which leaves a strange taste because of recent Apples tax evasion scandals. They lose my sympathy to the point where they act like criminals.
- Probably more...

Pros
- I have been a -very- satisfied Mac user for over 10 years, it will take time, effort and irritation to change platform
- Most of my professional surroundings (still) work on Mac, making professional exchange and collaboration more manageable
- Probably better support for Max, although I am not sure

macbook-pro-2016-yn

I am pretty pleased I don't need to upgrade just yet as I would be feeling exactly the same. I spent a long time on Windows before I moved to OS X around 10.4 time and have not looked back, I really have had a much better experience despite some of Apples quirks. Now... I am not interested in the new MBP to the point where I don't even want to moan about it and I am not sure Apple is going in the direction that is best for me and am suspicious of Sierra. I still have to use Windows occasionally and I must say the Windows 10 motto should be 'not as bad as it used to be'. OK, I don't want to start a flame war, just to say there are many reasons why I do not find Windows as pleasurable to use and it goes beyond familiarity and yes 10 does seem a lot better, but it is not quite what I am looking for. Say what you want about the beachball, but at least I can tell when my Mac is thinking about something, I hate the lack of feedback from Windows and some other fundamentally lacking intuitivity. Adobe suite and Max tie me to a mainstream operating system, but I would love to have the choice to move to Ubuntu or another Linux distro without having to use Wine/VMs. If PD was as featured as Max then I think I would be off pretty quick TBH. The one thing I would say is that spending 3/4 (or maybe even half!) of what you would on a new MBP would get you a pretty hot Windows machine and that would be a serious candidate for me if I was going to upgrade right now, possibly making sure that my machine could run Ubunutu too so a dual boot was an option. Anyway, not especially helpful I know, but my 2p.

I'm absolutely in the same situation: MBP 2010 (and about 20 years of maxin' on Apple). In the last years I started to do a lot of video in Jitter, so I need also a good horsepower in video cards.

I share your doubts. Maybe we will need to change audio interfaces (not sure if and how Firewire Audio interfaces will be supported). For me the lack of touch screen is not a problem ( I'm an old guy and I do prefer the mouse ;-). Concerning the Usb C Afaik a cable adapter will be enough to use Usb drives. I quote you "It seems more like a fancy consumer show-off product than sincerely designed for professionals".

Waiting for the Win guys for example concerning live video.

Hi Sono,
I'm absolutely in the same situation: MBP 2010 (and about 20 years of maxin' on Apple). In the last years I started to do a lot of video in Jitter, so I need also a good horsepower in video cards.
 I share your doubts. Maybe we will need to change audio interfaces (not sure if and how Firewire Audio interfaces will be supported). For me the lack of touch screen is not a problem ( I'm an old guy and I do prefer the mouse ;-). Concerning the Usb C Afaik a  cable adapter will be enough to use Usb drives. I quote you "It seems more like a fancy consumer show-off product than sincerely designed for professionals".
Waiting for the Win guys for example concerning  live video.

I've happily used Macs for over a decade. But this MBP is the reason I switched back to Windows again. The graphics chip in the best MBP is an AMD Polaris. Now, for 1000 € less, I have a Win laptop with an Nvidia gtx 1080, 32 GB RAM. 17" screen, all the ports I need and a faster core i7 microprocessor. Ah yes, and Max runs just fine on it!

i would try to overcome the construct of something beeing "on a pro level" only because it is newer than something else.

interesting thread, since i had the exact same thought as everyone else here it seems... was dreaming of Apple integrating at long effing last touchscreen on their macbooks, but it seems they still want to sell larger ipads......and the early disappearance of current technologies and the un-upgradability isn't to my taste either.........

If i needed a new one today, i'd probably still go for mac, because i don't do live videos and yes externals are far more present on mac than windows, and you can dual boot a mac, not a pc, and adapters are not cool to carry around but usb c might become more standard in the future. I'd probably go for the most powerful and expensive one though and make it last 10 years. I'm not sure, all i know is the current one i have is powerful from mid 2010, with CD and SD card readers, won't change it yet.

interesting thread, since i had the exact same thought as everyone else here it seems... was dreaming of Apple integrating at long effing last touchscreen on their macbooks, but it seems they still want to sell larger ipads......and the early disappearance of current technologies and the un-upgradability isn't to my taste either.........
If i needed a new one today, i'd probably still go for mac, because i don't do live videos and yes externals are far more present on mac than windows, and you can dual boot a mac, not a pc, and adapters are not cool to carry around but usb c might become more standard in the future. I'd probably go for the most powerful and expensive one though and make it last 10 years. I'm not sure, all i know is the current one i have is powerful from mid 2010, with CD and SD card readers, won't change it yet.


The one recently announced? No. Not even a close call. Apple fail.

Why not get a 2015 MacBook Pro, or else get PC hardware and learn how to run OS X on it if all you like is the OS itself. It's not that hard these days... tonymacx86.com

So what are the Windows alternatives? Any specific brand/model I should consider?

My current MBP 2010 is still fine for basic things and I am happy it is still in a good condition. But it fails badly on 2016 hardcore stuff. I work with patches that use up until 70% cpu, and depend heavily on parallel processing.

In the end I want to use a computer and operating system without tweaking it all the time, and solving problems. My latest Windows desktop was one running XP. And although it was better than its predecessors, it still needed a lot of maintenance. To me it's worth the extra buck to not be bothered with that. But I am unaware of the current status of Windows 10.

Same here. Thankfully my maxed out 2013 15" is going strong, so I don't have to worry about this for a while yet. But when the time comes, if Apple hasn't done something significant (32gb, much cheaper...it's unlikely ports will come back), I'll be looking at Windows as well.

If only Max ran on Linux we could all be having a different discussion, than the dreadful "I guess Windows isn't *that* bad" one....

Besides the flaws listes in this thread's first message, let me list other drawbacks of Apple's laptops:

1. No more 17-inches screen (I am still an -almost- happy user of a 2011 17-inches MBP).

3. No more magsafe connector (the lack of this one on an older laptop of mine led to its fall).

I think that my next laptop will be a Windows one. I won't have a look to Linux before Max and a decent DAW like Reaper are available in native form (I don't even speak about the available range of plug-ins...).

Clevo OEM built-to-order laptops, some with desktop CPUs, have caught my attention. In Europe, the german brand 

 has a wide range of options with a decent price. The main drawback I see with those computers is their weight but if you want power, you got it. Other brands also sell laptops with Intel Xeon CPUs but there could be some compatibility issues with specific applications.

Besides the flaws listes in this thread's first message, let me list other drawbacks of Apple's laptops:
1. No more 17-inches screen (I am still an -almost- happy user of a 2011 17-inches MBP).
2. No anti-glare screen.
3. No more magsafe connector (the lack of this one on an older laptop of mine led to its fall).

Clevo OEM built-to-order laptops, some with desktop CPUs, have caught my attention. In Europe, the german brand Schenker has a wide range of options with a decent price. The main drawback I see with those computers is their weight but if you want power, you got it. Other brands also sell laptops with Intel Xeon CPUs but there could be some compatibility issues with specific applications.


Great discussion. It's time professionals found a way of talking back to the industry. When there were no mac's in movies Apple was great - now that every movie has a mac - they're not. The answer is for some new group of people to fall in love with computing and start making machines as objects of that passion.

ps: The world is hungry for this. Yesterday aiaiai - danish modular headphones - began a kickstarter for their wireless headband and after 2 days they've exceeded their goal. 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1733579622/the-wireless-tma-2-modular-headphone-system

Great discussion. It's time professionals found a way of talking back to the industry. When there were no mac's in movies Apple was great - now that every movie has a mac - they're not. The answer is for some new group of people to fall in love with computing and start making machines as objects of that passion.  

ps: The world is hungry for this. Yesterday aiaiai - danish modular headphones - began a kickstarter for their wireless headband and after 2 days they've exceeded their goal. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1733579622/the-wireless-tma-2-modular-headphone-system


Although I totally agree and appreciate hypothetical scenarios and revolutional dreams, I am at the point where I need to take a practical decision ;)

Windows users, give us a shout. What hardware do you use and what performance quality do they deliver?

I believe Apple now doesn't think different, thinks as a big company and does not consider the few number of pros but the enormous number of potentially buyers of Ipads, iphones iwatchs i aiai...... So they call MacbookPro but I suspect that 'm forced to spend a lot of money to have not a pro machine. It happens to me the same when I spent a huge quantity of money to buy the video production suite by Apple (including Shake , the state of the Art) and after few years I saw Finalcutprox sold in the Apple store with the (for me at least) crappy interface of Imovie. Why for example They continue to place in a Pro machine that Graphic chipset? (Listening on the net it doesn't seem so Pro.....)........Anyway

As well pointed by Sono, who started this thread, is now also for me time of practical decisions. Thanks to KCOUL ( but I got the same suggestion from an Apple store guy) I am now considering to buy a 2015 MBpro 15" with Amd Graphic card, USB ,HDMI, Thunderbolt ports ecc.

At this point I am definitely no more an Apple fan, but:

I create my videos with Artmatic (mac only)

I edit videos, and 3d rendering with Final Cut and Motion

I have abig collection of patches plugin etc for Mac,

Im also considering Clevo and Schenker laptops. I want also to watch at the jitter thread about test of graphic cards, to see if someone posted tests made on this laptops (and also on MBpro 2015)

Two things:
The first,
I believe Apple now doesn't think different, thinks as a big company and does not consider the few number of pros but the enormous number of potentially buyers of Ipads, iphones iwatchs i aiai...... So they call MacbookPro but  I suspect that 'm forced to spend a lot of money to have not a pro machine. It happens to me the same when I spent a huge quantity of money to buy the video production suite by Apple (including Shake , the state of the Art) and after few years I saw Finalcutprox sold in the Apple store with the (for me at least) crappy interface of Imovie. Why for example They continue to place in a Pro machine that Graphic chipset? (Listening on the net it doesn't seem so Pro.....)........Anyway
Second thing
As well pointed by Sono, who started this thread, is now also for me time of practical decisions. Thanks to KCOUL ( but I got the same suggestion from an Apple store guy) I am now considering to buy a 2015 MBpro 15" with Amd Graphic card, USB ,HDMI, Thunderbolt ports ecc.
At this point I am definitely no more an Apple fan, but:
I create my videos with Artmatic (mac only)
I edit videos, and 3d rendering with Final Cut and Motion
I have abig collection of patches plugin etc for Mac,
Is time to restart all this? Again?

Sorry,
I,m sharing my confusion with you.

fyi - i have the 2015 mbp top of the line - and it's ok. the graphics card is now considered slow and by the wrong manufacturer (unchangeable) . the 16 MB ram is also unchangeable.

the one thing i'd say about mac is that they're accessible. if you need repair or replacement they still do that without arguing. and if you need it now they can do that also.

unfortunately i haven't been blown away by a computer in a very long time.

am very interested to hear others views on alternative computers and os's that they own or have worked with.

fyi - i have the 2015 mbp top of the line - and it's ok. the graphics card is now considered slow and by the wrong manufacturer (unchangeable) . the 16 MB ram is also unchangeable. 

Same here, 2010 MacBook Pro 13". I am at the end of this one, changed the mother board, mac safe, the fan, put a SSD and updated memory, repaired the trackpad twice... And you know what, my Powerbook G4 still running on exhibit and I never had to repair it.

So, I feel that Apple decided to get into the programmed obsolesce business, at our great displeasure. With the no-upgradable computer, it is even going to be more. So, laptops are more expensive, and we will have to change them more often.

Well, I think too that 1" wide ipad on the top of the keyboard is non sense. And when I saw what they did to the ports, I was sincerely wondering why they did not take the audio jack away, anyway you have to carry a bunch of cables and adaptors and you can not rely on finding one at the venue when you forget something.

That said, I found one good point at that Thunderbolt 3 thing. If you work on a station, you would have only one cable to plug when you arrive. Neat.

I was thinking about switching to Windows, and, I started to think how much time I would loose doing so, learning new reflexes, learning new softwares, finding ways to transfer files those new softwares, and it is no fun, not like learning how to use a Pi, lets say.

So, I am sincerely looking at getting a 2015 top model.

Well, I think too that 1" wide ipad on the top of the keyboard is non sense.  And when I saw what they did to the ports, I was sincerely wondering why they did not take the audio jack away, anyway you have to carry a bunch of cables and adaptors and you can not rely on finding one at the venue when you forget something. 

That said, I found one good point at that Thunderbolt 3 thing. If you work on a station, you would have only one cable to plug when you arrive.  Neat. 

So, I am sincerely looking at getting a 2015 top model.


So, my solution has been: purchasing a refurbished MBP late 2013 i7 2.6Ghz 16Mb, for 1400 EUR.

Except for the graphics card -which is not that important to me- it has almost the same specs as the 2015 model. With Geekbench I got a score of 14000+ (Multi-Core) which is on par with the best MBP's out there (excl. 2016 model), or even better!

https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

I quickly ran some heavy duty patches and my first impression is that it is very powerful. This laptop will be sufficient for at least two years. By then I will see what the market looks like. Maybe all pros changed to Windows and Apple only sells wearables for your ankle with three headphone jacks. Or they got back on track and released an MBP that I actually do want. We'll see.

Anyway, thanks for the input. And I'm curious what your choices are and why.

Ref: https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

My solution will be (as soon as i'll have enough money): buy a new MBP 2015, found at about 2550 €.

I hope it will last for about five-six years like my current one. In the meantime I will start to check win laptop (this is not so difficult cause there are a lot very cheap laptop to use for test. And by the way I too will see wath the market do.

My solution will be (as soon as i'll have enough money): buy a new MBP 2015, found at about 2550 €.
I hope it will last for about five-six years like my current one. In the meantime I will start to check win laptop (this is not so difficult cause there  are  a lot very cheap laptop  to use for test. And by the way I too will see wath the market do.

I had to update to the new MBPro 15, because my 2008 modell had a broken screen and the power supply only got 30 % left, when totally loaded. And I need it for some stuff only working on Mac OS. I waited over a year for this product update, but I wouldn´t buy the new modell if my laptop was only 2 till 4 years old.

Like a lot of folks, I think apple is abandoning its professionals more and more. I really liked this company since my college days but now ... Time to move on ...

I had to update to the new MBPro 15, because my 2008 modell had a broken screen and the power supply only got 30 % left, when totally loaded. And I need it for some stuff only working on Mac OS. I waited over a year for this product update, but I wouldn´t buy the new modell if my laptop was only 2  till 4 years old.
Like a lot of folks, I think apple is abandoning its professionals more and more. I really liked this company since my college days but now ... Time to move on ...

I was working professionally on Mac with MaxMSP since 2003 and decided to switch to Linux recently. I'm at the point where you think to abandon your favorite software to go back to free/open ones. This is not a choice, Apple is now a big monster and I don't agree with such prices and also privacy. I could shut my eyes and pay. Max will still work on my "old" Mac computers but I will probably not be able to support anymore C74 in the future since there are not plans to port Max on any Linux distrib. That's a digital fracture. Indeed Windows is an alternative, but who wants this shit... FTA

Hi,
indeed interesting thread.
I was working professionally on Mac with MaxMSP since 2003 and decided to switch to Linux recently. I'm at the point where you think to abandon your favorite software to go back to free/open ones. This is not a choice,  Apple is now a big monster and I don't agree with such prices and also privacy. I could shut my eyes and pay. Max will still work on my "old" Mac computers but I will probably not be able to support anymore C74 in the future since there are not plans to port Max on any Linux distrib. That's a digital fracture. Indeed Windows is an alternative, but who wants this shit... FTA


It definitely is interesting thread, and very personal as well.

both windows and mac operating systems are shit and getting worse with

every new release, but mac is easier to handle.

The decision which one is my next, depends on software one wants to use

For Max it does not matter, You just have to kill all the unnecessary stuff in OS,

The average user could learn that easier on Unix machines,

because the structure is more defined there.

On the other hand, if one really understands the windows OS

then the ammount of optimisation of OS can be done better than in Mac OS,

and so making a Max Computer very efficient.

It definitely is interesting thread, and very personal as well.
This is my point of view :
both windows and mac operating systems are shit and getting worse with
every new release, but mac is easier to handle.
The decision which one is my next, depends on software one wants to use
or keep using.
For Max it does not matter, You just have to kill all the unnecessary stuff in OS,
and enjoy your Max machine.
The average user could learn that easier on Unix machines,
because the structure is more defined there.
On the other hand, if one really understands the windows OS
then the ammount of optimisation of OS can be done better than in Mac OS,
and so making a Max Computer very efficient.


You should go with MacBook pro 2016 version. Because it's proving the best service with compare to any other version of MacBook pro. But you might face some problem of iTunes if you are using the other version of MacBook pro. I am using MacBook pro 2017 version and after the software update I

 in my device. So I suggest to go with the MacBook pro 2016 version it's good enough for using.

You should go with MacBook pro 2016 version. Because it's proving the best service  with compare to any other version of MacBook pro. But you might face some problem of iTunes if you are using the other version of MacBook pro. I am using MacBook pro 2017 version and after the software update Ican’t install iTunes on Windows 10  in my device. So I suggest to go with the MacBook pro 2016 version it's good enough for using.

The Mac book pro is an outstanding model in 2016.However, I have a query regarding my Apple iphone 7

.I have purchased my apple i phone 7 in 2018 and for a couple of weeks I am facing an issue 

regarding logging of Microsoft Office 365 in it.Suggest what to do next?

The Mac book pro is an outstanding model in 2016.However, I have a query regarding my Apple iphone 7
office 365 login.I have purchased my apple i phone 7 in 2018 and for a couple of weeks I am facing an issue 
regarding logging of Microsoft Office 365 in it.Suggest what to do next?

MacBook Pro 2016? y/n