Axiom-Crux

I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics. Mmm fantasizing.

I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.  Mmm fantasizing.


max-5

I'll bet it will be hot like:
http://tinyurl.com/2pjk73

Damn, that's sweet! I wasn't sure about upgrading, after finding this "leaked" screenshot:

...though it it's conceptually interesting, it seems somewhat counter-intuitive.

> I'll bet it will be hot like:
> http://tinyurl.com/2pjk73

please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)

On 4/17/07, Emmanuel Jourdan  wrote:
>
> On 17 avr. 07, at 06:51, jvkr wrote:
>
> > I'll bet it will be hot like:
> > http://tinyurl.com/2pjk73
>
> Thanks, that will help a lot ;-)
>
> ej
>

Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 04:29

----------------------------------------------------

> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.

More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of objects (panel, lcd, ...) that are System 7-ish.

Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.

Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 04:29
----------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.
----------------------------------------------------

Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.


mmm... you haven't seen desiredata yet, then.

it will give Max 5 a run for its money (in terms of interface, anyways)

https://devel.goto10.org/desiredata/wiki/ScreenShots

On Apr 17, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Peter Castine wrote:

> Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 04:29

> ----------------------------------------------------

>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather 

> More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of 

> objects (panel, lcd, ...) that are System 7-ish.

> Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming 

> updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/ 

> line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is 

> sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.

> Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

> iCE: Sequencing, Recording & Interface Building for Max/MSP 

>
> Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 04:29
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather  
>> then antiquated os8-9 graphics.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> OS 8-9???
>
> More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of  
> objects (panel, lcd, ...) that are System 7-ish.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming  
> updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/ 
> line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is  
> sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.
> --
> --------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
> Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
>
> iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording & Interface  Building  for Max/MSP    
> Extremely cool   http://www.dspaudio.com/
>


> mmm... you haven't seen desiredata yet, then.

> mmm... you haven't seen desiredata yet, then.
>
> https://devel.goto10.org/desiredata/wiki/ScreenShots
>

Whats up with desiredata, this is twisted!

i been playign with plogue a bit (don't tell maxine, she gets jealous). But for my money max will always be the best modular virtual system, Reaktors sound quality sounds like a dead cyborg (don't know why, the synthesis is excellent but the filters and granular sound so dull like dry bread) and PD is kinda wimpy and ugly by todays standards. Plogue is coming out pretty cool (and very pretty with its besier curve chords) but still not nearly the capabilities of the years of user base that have made max externals.

As for the look, I would imagine it with a kslider that looks semi dimensional, very clean and pretty, anti aliased patch cables, maybe even new preset sliders that look more shiny and osxlike. I know we have full controll over the look but it woudl be nice to be able to have pretty patches right out the box for once. Most people I see end up using the preset objects anyway because they are way more convinient unless they are releasing their creation to the public.

As far as functionality I hope they swallow up some of the externals or abstractions that are out there, for example I would have loved to have the Jimmies back when I started maxing, but it took 4 years before I knew about them and was willing to throw down 200 dollars to get an IRCAM membership just so I could obtain them. It woudl be wonderful to have simple limiter, flanger, and different filter abstractions so that we can learn by looking at them and have easy to use functions that everyone needs. Maybe even the max toolbox so you coudl do really convinient things like plug multiple outlets to multiple inlets automatically, or distribute objects on x or y axis.

Im just curious to see if others have the same values or if any C74 employees will spill a few proverbial beans.

i been playign with plogue a bit (don't tell maxine, she gets jealous).  But for my money max will always be the best modular virtual system, Reaktors sound quality sounds like a dead cyborg (don't know why, the synthesis is excellent but the filters and granular sound so dull like dry bread)  and PD is kinda wimpy and ugly by todays standards.  Plogue is coming out pretty cool (and very pretty with its besier curve chords)  but still not nearly the capabilities of the years of user base that have made max externals.  

As for the look, I would imagine it with a kslider that looks semi dimensional, very clean and pretty, anti aliased patch cables, maybe even new preset sliders that look more shiny and osxlike.  I know we have full controll over the look but it woudl be nice to be able to have pretty patches right out the box for once.  Most people I see end up using the preset objects anyway because they are way more convinient unless they are releasing their creation to the public.

As far as functionality I hope they swallow up some of the externals or abstractions that are out there, for example I would have loved to have the Jimmies back when I started maxing, but it took 4 years before I knew about them and was willing to throw down 200 dollars to get an IRCAM membership just so I could obtain them.  It woudl be wonderful to have simple limiter, flanger, and different filter abstractions so that we can learn by looking at them and have easy to use functions that everyone needs.  Maybe even the max toolbox so you coudl do really convinient things like plug multiple outlets to multiple inlets automatically, or distribute objects on x or y axis.

Im just curious to see if others have the same values or if any C74 employees will spill a few proverbial beans.


>----------------------------------------------------

>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.

fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui elements.

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>----------------------------------------------------
>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.
>----------------------------------------------------

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> More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of objects (panel, lcd, ...) that are System 7-ish.

> Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.

hey peter did you just complain about max beeing system 7ish

i love it like that. please do not ask for aqua style objects 

boxes and reason-style connections. nobody needs that.

if you want your max looking more modern, i suggest to create

your own GUI stuff, call it "iCE" or so, and put it out.

> More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of objects (panel, lcd, ...) that are System 7-ish.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.
----------------------------------------------------

hey peter did you just complain about max beeing system 7ish
and black+white?

i love it like that. please do not ask for aqua style objects 
boxes and reason-style connections. nobody needs that.

if you want your max looking more modern, i suggest to create
your own GUI stuff, call it "iCE" or so, and put it out.

well i agree that it doesn't look nice, seems like a not so well done hybrid of max and the ugly jmax, but there are some features, that seem to be quite promising like the multiple undo and the firefox style find.

Quote: david@5of4.com wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 09:11

------------------------------------------

> fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui elements.

Agreed! I'm more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat. 

Quote: david@5of4.com wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 09:11
------------------------------------------
> fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui elements.
----------------------------------------------------

Agreed! I'm more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat. 


Me too for the function-not-fashion lobby.

I always thought that programming was /meant/ to look ugly, so that everyone

(including me) would think it must be difficult?

> Quote: david@5of4.com wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 09:11

> ------------------------------------------

>> fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui

> Agreed! I'm more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing

> a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat.

Me too for the function-not-fashion lobby.
I always thought that programming was /meant/ to look ugly, so that everyone
(including me) would think it must be difficult?
Cheers
Roger

>
> Quote: david@5of4.com wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 09:11
> ------------------------------------------
>> fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui
>> elements.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Agreed! I'm more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing
> a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat.
>
>

A great timeline without graphical interface would be perfect.

A better interface without a new timeline would be a waste.

> Agreed! I'm more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing
> a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat.
>
A great timeline without graphical interface would be perfect.
A better interface without a new timeline would be a waste.
For example.

I think it's a bit misleading to assume that a nicer GUI would necessarily cause "bloat" - *any* GUI causes bloat. But maybe an idea would be to make it support "skins", so people could make pretty GUIs, themes, etc., for the existing objects. Then we could make our own Darth Vader "theme", or our "Neo" theme, or, or... oh, wouldn't that be sad. But, on the serious side, it would probably lighten the burden of c74 having to please everybody.

The point is that in the "form vs function" debate, anything we patch with is "form". If it were all text-based, and ran from the Terminal, that would be a different story. Of course, some objects take more juice to draw than others, with anti-aliasing, drop shadows, and all that, but it's not as though there's no GUI on Max as it is now. My basic philosophy is that the GUI should be consistent with the OS it's running on, which the current GUI is not.

The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don't 

But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND unicorns 

> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics. Mmm fantasizing.

> -=ili!ili=- www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-

Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the sensibility of men.

The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don't 
have to rewrite it.

But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND unicorns 
in Max 5 (ssh!).

Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.  Mmm fantasizing.
> --
> -=ili!ili=-  www.Axiom-Crux.net  -=ili!ili=-
>

-- 
barry threw
composition : sound : programming
http://www.barrythrew.com
bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com
857-544-3967

Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the sensibility of men.
- Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises


On Apr 17, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Barry Threw wrote:

> The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I 

> But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND 

>> then antiquated os8-9 graphics. Mmm fantasizing.

>> -=ili!ili=- www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-

> Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the 

> The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I  
> don't have to rewrite it.
>
> But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND  
> unicorns in Max 5 (ssh!).
>
> b
>
> Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather  
>> then antiquated os8-9 graphics.  Mmm fantasizing.
>> --
>> -=ili!ili=-  www.Axiom-Crux.net  -=ili!ili=-
>
> -- 
> barry threw
> composition : sound : programming
> http://www.barrythrew.com
> bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com
> 857-544-3967
>
> Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the  
> sensibility of men.
> - Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises

At 11:50 AM -0700 4/17/07, Barry Threw wrote:

>The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don't have to rewrite it.

Agreed, although I would accept some rework if it was required to advance the state of Max. Backwards compatibility can be a bear.

>But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND unicorns in Max 5 (ssh!).

Cool. I hope it can also deal with more than one processor, though.

Chris Muir | "There are many futures and only one status quo.

cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,

 | and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno

At 11:50 AM -0700 4/17/07, Barry Threw wrote:
>The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don't have to rewrite it.

-- 
Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno


On 17 Apr 2007, at 10:17, jbmaxwell wrote:

As long as it gives me the power features I need, I don't mind. Maybe 

http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/photos/d/1164-2/evento.png

As long as it gives me the power features I need, I don't mind. Maybe  
something like this:

	http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/photos/d/1164-2/evento.png

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.loadbang.net


> The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don't

I have the feeling c74 values this request very high.

However, that would be good to have an official "deprecated" status for some

(OT: maybe MacOSX came faster and better than Vista partly because Apple

doesn't hesitate to break the past to build something new. That's what they

> The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don't
> have to rewrite it.

I have the feeling c74 values this request very high.
However, that would be good to have an official "deprecated" status for some
objects.

(OT: maybe MacOSX came faster and better than Vista partly because Apple
doesn't hesitate to break the past to build something new. That's what they
will surely do with Logic.)

> My God ! I had never seen so much tabs in a single window. This is 

I think the impact is only heightened by it all being in German.

> My God ! I had never seen so much tabs in a single window. This is  
> amazing...

Quote: jbm wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 12:44

> I think it's a bit misleading to assume that a nicer GUI 

> would necessarily cause "bloat" - *any* GUI causes bloat.

well an object box must, by definition, be at least a b&w square...

> My basic philosophy is that the GUI should be consistent with 

> the OS it's running on, which the current GUI is not.

...but its questionable if it really should look like the

i wouldnt know how to give an object box a consistent 

appearance with OS 9, windows XP looks extremly ugly, and in 

OSX i run shapeshifter with different themes...

who here agrees with me that MAXMSP looks better than PD ? :)

Quote: jbm wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 12:44
----------------------------------------------------
> I think it's a bit misleading to assume that a nicer GUI 
> would necessarily cause "bloat" - *any* GUI causes bloat.

> My basic philosophy is that the GUI should be consistent with 
> the OS it's running on, which the current GUI is not.

...but its questionable if it really should look like the
OS does.

i wouldnt know how to give an object box a consistent 
appearance with OS 9, windows XP looks extremly ugly, and in 
OSX i run shapeshifter with different themes...

who here agrees with me that MAXMSP looks better than PD ? :)


I like the object boxes, I think those are classic, Im just saying like the GUI stuff like the keyboard, scope, waveform, and others could look prettier, just look at any Native Instrument synth and they look so clean and pretty and at the end of the day LOOKS DO MATTER! I may be a computer nerd and some days I don't shower and shave and get nasty looking, but at the end of the day when I do, I feel better. Working in music software is like that, and currently its alot of work to make a javascript or even a still sequence based object look good. I would love to be able to make a patch with just max and have it look good out of the box, cause it would be just that much more pleasurable working with it. I don't think it should be too bubbly and all over the place but some antialiasing and clean shading goes a long way. THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD LOOK LIKE IPHONE!!!!

I like the object boxes, I think those are classic, Im just saying like the GUI stuff like the keyboard, scope, waveform, and others could look prettier, just look at any Native Instrument synth and they look so clean and pretty and at the end of the day LOOKS DO MATTER!  I may be a computer nerd and some days I don't shower and shave and get nasty looking, but at the end of the day when I do, I feel better.  Working in music software is like that, and currently its alot of work to make a javascript or even a still sequence based object look good.  I would love to be able to make a patch with just max and have it look good out of the box, cause it would be just that much more pleasurable working with it.  I don't think it should be too bubbly and all over the place but some antialiasing and clean shading goes a long way.  THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD LOOK LIKE IPHONE!!!!

i like the look of max.I has a professinal programming feel to it. But the UI objects etc i suppose could look more Reaktoresque. but their not essential. Some of the jaza UI's look great so it could just have lots more of them in and keep the classic look still for everything else. it looks alot better PD. Though PD has its own charm. i hope that the Windows version doesn't look like OS-X. I hope it has the Vista Aero Glass look. whats wrong with the way vista looks. it looks better than OS-X (personal but controversial opinion). max looks wicked under anything when you style is skinned anyway. Can you skin/change OS-X easily like you can with Windows. Max 4 looks funny under linux its got the classic windows 2000 and before look. its great. bless WINE's cotton socks. Is there any date for max 5. I'm assuming will be on both platforms not just os-x too.

I like the look of vista, the fact that it blurs things behind transparent layers. I still like the look of OSX more though, but not by much. At the core though I love the stability of OSX and so far its been really compatible and dependable since I started using it. I actually switched to mac so I could use max/msp right when jitter came out. then a couple years later they made it cross platform. Im not saying they should completely change the look of max, it has a classic charm and programming language look that it needs for me to take it as seriously as I do. I just think it should be cleaner and more up to date looking.

I like the look of vista, the fact that it blurs things behind transparent layers.  I still like the look of OSX more though, but not by much.  At the core though I love the stability of OSX and so far its been really compatible and dependable since I started using it.  I actually switched to mac so I could use max/msp right when jitter came out.  then a couple years later they made it cross platform.  Im not saying they should completely change the look of max, it has a classic charm and programming language look that it needs for me to take it as seriously as I do.  I just think it should be cleaner and more up to date looking.


i love how max looks, please don't change it!! =(

I don't really mind the way it looks now. There are a couple things that could be moved around though, for quicker and easier use.

- Move the objects bar to the top of the screen, don't have one for every patcher. This gets rid of the 20pixel empty space at the top of all my patches since i hate scrollbars. Allow dragging of objects between patchers.

- Make the choices from the view menu (show connections etc) accessible in one click or shortcut. Same with Paste Replace.

- Move the status of a max window somewhere else, it's always falling off the monitor now.

- Some align/grid option would be nice for building guis.

- This is OS-related: make me able to select objects within patches without having to select the patch first.

- Doubleclick on a send, receive or value should also work on a grab or forward.

http://www.advantage3d.com/images/do-it-button.gif

I don't really mind the way it looks now. There are a couple things that could be moved around though, for quicker and easier use. 

This interface would also be great:
http://www.advantage3d.com/images/do-it-button.gif

> please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)

Vista? what is that? never heard of it... Hasta la vista...

I bet you will be able to choose skins which will eat all the power you 

gained from faster processors (like Vista), I'd take the Pd skin... ;-)

Joel Swensen schrieb:
> please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)

Vista? what is that? never heard of it... Hasta la vista...
I bet you will be able to choose skins which will eat all the power you 
gained from faster processors (like Vista), I'd take the Pd skin... ;-)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


i just want scoping, so i can have two copies of one external that reference

sflists (buffers, etc) and not have conflicts. a truly scoped send object

(pvar doesn't duplicate send!), and scoped references are my biggest

complaints about max. subpatchers should inherit scope from their parent

patchers, and only from their parent patchers!!!!

anyways, i'm excited to see what c74 is gonna do with this one.

> > please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)

> Vista? what is that? never heard of it... Hasta la vista...

> I bet you will be able to choose skins which will eat all the power you

> gained from faster processors (like Vista), I'd take the Pd skin... ;-)

i just want scoping, so i can have two copies of one external that reference
sflists (buffers, etc) and not have conflicts.  a truly scoped send object
(pvar doesn't duplicate send!), and scoped references are my biggest
complaints about max.  subpatchers should inherit scope from their parent
patchers, and only from their parent patchers!!!!

On 4/18/07, Stefan Tiedje  wrote:
>
> Joel Swensen schrieb:
> > please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)
>
> Vista? what is that? never heard of it... Hasta la vista...
> I bet you will be able to choose skins which will eat all the power you
> gained from faster processors (like Vista), I'd take the Pd skin... ;-)
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>

Exactly! I love the way Max looks. It's all about efficiency, and that

is beautiful. Apple just makes the interface pretty in OSX so they can

sell more computers, it's marketing. Meanwhile, they have to waste

time coming up with technologies likes Quartz Extreme to handle all

the massive graphics and real time drop shadows they've used while the

OS feature set (IE: The Finder) needs massive work.

> > > please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)

Exactly! I love the way Max looks. It's all about efficiency, and that
is beautiful. Apple just makes the interface pretty in OSX so they can
sell more computers, it's marketing. Meanwhile, they have to waste
time coming up with technologies likes Quartz Extreme to handle all
the massive graphics and real time drop shadows they've used while the
OS feature set (IE: The Finder) needs massive work.

> > > please for the love of god don't let it look like Vista ;0)


It's nice to see someone resurrecting jMax...

On Apr 17, 2007, at 6:57 AM, evan.raskob [lists] wrote:

> it will give Max 5 a run for its money (in terms of interface, anyways)

> mmm... you haven't seen desiredata yet, then.
>
> it will give Max 5 a run for its money (in terms of interface, anyways)
>
> https://devel.goto10.org/desiredata/wiki/ScreenShots
>
>
> cheers
> evan
>


Im not saying you shoudl change the look without options, I know lots of people love the current look, Im saying in the get info if there was an option for anti aliasing, that sure woudl be great, or maybe little curved corners or subtle shading, that looks good to me (OPTIONS are good to have). funny how people who are so progressive about sound are so conservative about their interface.

Im not saying you shoudl change the look without options, I know lots of people love the current look, Im saying in the get info if there was an option for anti aliasing, that sure woudl be great, or maybe little curved corners or subtle shading, that looks good to me (OPTIONS are good to have).  funny how people who are so progressive about sound are so conservative about their interface.


> Exactly! I love the way Max looks. It's all about efficiency, and that

What would really make my patching experience more efficient, gui-wise, 

would be the ability to colour /group objects more heavily than the thin 

line going around them. I'd like something like the colour selection of 

MAX 5