Isjtar

can anybody help convert my ms mics to xy?

i thought there was a patch somewhere, but can't find it anywhere.

ms and xy aren't the nicest items to do a searc for either ; )

can anybody help convert my ms mics to xy?
i thought there was a patch somewhere, but can't find it anywhere.
ms and xy aren't the nicest items to do a searc for either  ; )
thanks!

middle-and-side-to-xy-conversion

I haven't tested it out, as I have no ms mic handy, but this should 

work. All you need to do to matrix the ms signals to xy is add the 

mid mic to the side mic (for left channel) and to the side mic after 

phase inversion (for the right channel). This abstraction does that, 

and gives you variable width control by altering the level of the 

Hope it helps. Let me know if it does/doesn't work, or if you have 

On Jan 16, 2008, at 10:42 AM, isjtar wrote:

> can anybody help convert my ms mics to xy?

> i thought there was a patch somewhere, but can't find it anywhere.

> ms and xy aren't the nicest items to do a searc for either ; )

I haven't tested it out, as I have no ms mic handy, but this should  
work. All you need to do to matrix the ms signals to xy is add the  
mid mic to the side mic (for left channel) and to the side mic after  
phase inversion (for the right channel). This abstraction does that,  
and gives you variable width control by altering the level of the  
side mic.

Hope it helps. Let me know if it does/doesn't work, or if you have  
questions.

> hi
>
> can anybody help convert my ms mics to xy?
> i thought there was a patch somewhere, but can't find it anywhere.
> ms and xy aren't the nicest items to do a searc for either  ; )
> thanks!

----
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home 
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OVOS 
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ms stands for "mid-side" and refers to mics that have an element that 

"looks" straight ahead and two that "look" to the side. when decoded 

correctly - don't ask me to explain that process, do a search for mid- 

side - one can manipulate the stereo image in very cool and 

interesting ways, with control over width, etc.

"Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane."

ms stands for "mid-side" and refers to mics that have an element that  
"looks" straight ahead and two that "look" to the side. when decoded  
correctly - don't ask me to explain that process, do a search for mid- 
side - one can manipulate the stereo image in very cool and  
interesting ways, with control over width, etc.
cheers
b

>
> would like to help...
>
> What exactly is an MS mic?
>
>
>

"Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane."
Philip K. Dick


it's a different way for doing stereo recordings instead of xy or ab.

the middle is a cardioid, the side figure of 8, you place them 

you need to apply a formula to convert it to normal stereo.

it has some advantages like you can control the width of the image 

a bit of a hassle for monitoring and converting though.

ah : )
middle and side.
it's a different way for doing stereo recordings instead of xy or ab.
the middle is a cardioid, the side figure of 8, you place them  
vertically stacked.
you need to apply a formula to convert it to normal stereo.
it has some advantages like you can control the width of the image  
with the respective volumes.
a bit of a hassle for monitoring and converting though.
it's used a lot in film btw

>
> would like to help...
>
> What exactly is an MS mic?
>
>
>


> I haven't tested it out, as I have no ms mic handy, but this should 

> work. All you need to do to matrix the ms signals to xy is add the mid 

> mic to the side mic (for left channel) and to the side mic after phase 

> inversion (for the right channel). This abstraction does that, and gives 

> you variable width control by altering the level of the side mic.

> Hope it helps. Let me know if it does/doesn't work, or if you have 

I guess its the wrong patch, I'd do it like that: (fits to your 

description including "haven't tested but should work"...)

Steven Miller schrieb:
> I haven't tested it out, as I have no ms mic handy, but this should 
> work. All you need to do to matrix the ms signals to xy is add the mid 
> mic to the side mic (for left channel) and to the side mic after phase 
> inversion (for the right channel). This abstraction does that, and gives 
> you variable width control by altering the level of the side mic.
>
> Hope it helps. Let me know if it does/doesn't work, or if you have 
> questions.

I guess its the wrong patch, I'd do it like that: (fits to your 
description including "haven't tested but should work"...)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

On Jan 16, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> I guess its the wrong patch, I'd do it like that: (fits to your 

> description including "haven't tested but should work"...)

Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the mid 

rather than subtract the mid from the side, unless you then invert 

the combined signal again (in order to maintain mono compatibility, a 

The added benefit of my patch is that there's no (or at least greatly 

reduced) zipper noise, due to use of line~, etc., in the fader 

subpatch. Yours will have noise on incoming level discontinuities. 

You're right, however, I can simplify mine slightly by rearranging 

the fader and inverter and then removing one fader subpatch.

BTW - my fader subpatch has other capabilities unused in the current 

patch - it's a straight copy of a more general purpose fader 

What did you mean by "I guess it's the wrong patch"?

> I guess its the wrong patch, I'd do it like that: (fits to your  
> description including "haven't tested but should work"...)
>
>

Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the mid  
rather than subtract the mid from the side, unless you then invert  
the combined signal again (in order to maintain mono compatibility, a  
hallmark of the MS technique).

The added benefit of my patch is that there's no (or at least greatly  
reduced) zipper noise, due to use of line~, etc., in the fader  
subpatch. Yours will have noise on incoming level discontinuities.  
You're right, however, I can simplify mine slightly by rearranging  
the fader and inverter and then removing one fader subpatch.

BTW - my fader subpatch has other capabilities unused in the current  
patch - it's a straight copy of a more general purpose fader  
abstraction I use regularly.

> Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the mid 

> rather than subtract the mid from the side

but I subtracted the side from the mid which is the same as inverting 

and adding... I'd rather leave the side level control outside of the 

abstraction, as it would eat cycles even if you don't want to fiddle 

with it, as well as the 1/sqrt2 level adaption which should be necessary 

Steven Miller schrieb:
> Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the mid 
> rather than subtract the mid from the side

but I subtracted the side from the mid which is the same as inverting 
and adding... I'd rather leave the side level control outside of the 
abstraction, as it would eat cycles even if you don't want to fiddle 
with it, as well as the 1/sqrt2 level adaption which should be necessary 
to keep the levels...

On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>> Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the 

>> mid rather than subtract the mid from the side

> but I subtracted the side from the mid which is the same as 

> inverting and adding... I'd rather leave the side level control 

> outside of the abstraction, as it would eat cycles even if you 

> don't want to fiddle with it, as well as the 1/sqrt2 level adaption 

> which should be necessary to keep the levels...

> Steven Miller schrieb:
>> Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the  
>> mid rather than subtract the mid from the side
>
> but I subtracted the side from the mid which is the same as  
> inverting and adding... I'd rather leave the side level control  
> outside of the abstraction, as it would eat cycles even if you  
> don't want to fiddle with it, as well as the 1/sqrt2 level adaption  
> which should be necessary to keep the levels...
>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>


middle and side to xy conversion