Peter Ostry

Certainly not difficult and perhaps asked a thousand times: how do I make a momentary button which reports mouse down and mouse up, as typical for tap tempo buttons? I don't find the right object.

momentary-button-with-downup-state

You won't find a single object because this is yet

another case where Max users *make* little patchlets

that do tasks of precisely this variety. Max simply

does not have a single object for every arbitrary task, 

although the fact that there are so many might suggest 

Whenever you run into these things, your life as a

Max programmer will be made simpler [in addition to

searching the archives/looking at the See Also menus

in the help files] if you ask yourself what it is you

actually want to do, and assume that you're going to

*make* something that does it using the things you know.

Look more carefully at the refpages for the objects you

think you know. Break down the task you want to perform

into smaller units instead of thinking there's a single

I'm sure that lots of people here would build themselves

little clicky things for tap tempo in different ways.

I'll leave the task of figuring out how to convert ms.

to tempo as an instructive dilemma for you [there may or

may not be a single object that does it, of course].

You won't find a single object because this is yet
another case where Max users *make* little patchlets
that do tasks of precisely this variety. Max simply
does not have a single object for every arbitrary task, 
although the fact that there are so many might suggest 
that to new user sometimes.

Whenever you run into these things, your life as a
Max programmer will be made simpler [in addition to
searching the archives/looking at the See Also menus
in the help files] if you ask yourself what it is you
actually want to do, and assume that you're going to
*make* something that does it using the things you know.
Look more carefully at the refpages for the objects you
think you know. Break down the task you want to perform
into smaller units instead of thinking there's a single
object, etc.

I'm sure that lots of people here would build themselves
little clicky things for tap tempo in different ways.

I'll leave the task of figuring out how to convert ms.
to tempo as an instructive dilemma for you [there may or
may not be a single object that does it, of course].


here is on trick to get the mouse up and down:

Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 12:44

----------------------------------------------------

> here is on trick to get the mouse up and down:

Yeah ubutton of course. Thanks, now I can remove all my [mousefilter] objects ;-)

Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 12:44
----------------------------------------------------
> here is on trick to get the mouse up and down:
> ...

Yeah ubutton of course. Thanks, now I can remove all my [mousefilter] objects ;-)


but you know how mousefilter works for the next time :-)

Quote: Peter Ostry wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 12:55

> Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 12:44

> ----------------------------------------------------

> > here is on trick to get the mouse up and down:

> Yeah ubutton of course. Thanks, now I can remove all my [mousefilter] objects ;-)

Quote: Peter Ostry wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 12:55
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 12:44
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > here is on trick to get the mouse up and down:
> > ...
>
> Yeah ubutton of course. Thanks, now I can remove all my [mousefilter] objects ;-)
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


> but you know how mousefilter works for the next time :-)

Olivier's comment is spot on. The advantage of searching

for solutions and trying them based on what you know is

that - even if you *don't* get the result you want - you

learn something useful that you'll be able to get at the

Olivier's comment is spot on. The advantage of searching
for solutions and trying them based on what you know is
that - even if you *don't* get the result you want - you
learn something useful that you'll be able to get at the
next time around.


Quote: Gregory Taylor wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 19:16

> > but you know how mousefilter works for the next time :-)

> Olivier's comment is spot on. The advantage of searching

> for solutions and trying them based on what you know is

> that - even if you *don't* get the result you want - you

> learn something useful that you'll be able to get at the

But I am always afraid to forget what I 've learn during these long hours searching.

Because the next time you will need this trick could be in a year !

Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special folder, but there are now so many now ...

re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in max.

So a quick search in this forum and www.maxobjects.com is always a good start.

Quote: Gregory Taylor wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 19:16
----------------------------------------------------
> > but you know how mousefilter works for the next time :-)
>
> Olivier's comment is spot on. The advantage of searching
> for solutions and trying them based on what you know is
> that - even if you *don't* get the result you want - you
> learn something useful that you'll be able to get at the
> next time around.
----------------------------------------------------

I Agree
But I am always afraid to forget what I 've learn during these long hours searching.
Because the next time you will need this trick could be in a year !
Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special folder, but there are now so many now ...

re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in max.
So a quick search in this forum and www.maxobjects.com is always a good start.


> But I am always afraid to forget what I 've learn during these long hours searching.

I'm sure I may err in the opposite direction, but I encourage those people who I have the honor of tutoring to think of a 

small and saved patch as the record they have of their learning,

if only to reinforce the idea that one thing that (I think) 

distinguishes the particularly adept Max programmer is that

ability to reuse and recontextualize their ideas.

One of the other lessons doesn't require a patch - developing

the common habit of making sense of an object you either have

never seen, or one you haven't used for a while, or one you

I try to gracefully [and sometimes less than gracefully]

suggest that the ever-popular "serial patch grovel"

approach to learning Max has a false sort of economy

imbedded in it. Despite its apparent "efficiency", the

dependence on others for answers actually hinders the

development of long-term expertise *and* can suggest 

that new users are supposed to cultivate knowing some

imaginary single answer to any question - which runs 

counter to what I would say is one of Max's advantages

in terms of allowing for the construction of idiosyncratic

solutions. I think that working with Max is about habits

of thought as much as it is about becoming familiar with

imagining the flow of data and its control.

> Because the next time you will need this trick could be in a year !

> Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special folder, but there are now so many now ...

And that single fact would suggest to me that you know what

you're doing. And yes, my patch pile is insane, too.

> re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in max.

To the extent to which Max involves with engaging with a

process or developing habits of thought, I think that your

fear - while understandable - overemphasizes the "problem"

rather than focusing on what else happens while you're working

> So a quick search in this forum and www.maxobjects.com is always a good start.

Another sign of your good sense. Search first, *then* ask.

I'm sure I may err in the opposite direction, but I encourage those people who I have the honor of tutoring to think of a 
small and saved patch as the record they have of their learning,
if only to reinforce the idea that one thing that (I think) 
distinguishes the particularly adept Max programmer is that
ability to reuse and recontextualize their ideas.

One of the other lessons doesn't require a patch - developing
the common habit of making sense of an object you either have
never seen, or one you haven't used for a while, or one you
*think* you know.

I try to gracefully [and sometimes less than gracefully]
suggest that the ever-popular "serial patch grovel"
approach to learning Max has a false sort of economy
imbedded in it. Despite its apparent "efficiency", the
dependence on others for answers actually hinders the
development of long-term expertise *and* can suggest 
that new users are supposed to cultivate knowing some
imaginary single answer to any question - which runs 
counter to what I would say is one of Max's advantages
in terms of allowing for the construction of idiosyncratic
solutions. I think that working with Max is about habits
of thought as much as it is about becoming familiar with
imagining the flow of data and its control.

And that single fact would suggest to me that you know what
you're doing. And yes, my patch pile is insane, too.

To the extent to which Max involves with engaging with a
process or developing habits of thought, I think that your
fear - while understandable - overemphasizes the "problem"
rather than focusing on what else happens while you're working
on a solution.

Another sign of your good sense. Search first, *then* ask.


Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 11:26

I did this by accident, but I think I may start doing it on purpose from now on: I was toying around with [drunk] and trying to get it to react a certain way, and accidentally saved the help file. I didn't end up using that particular implementation, but I did like it - and now whenever I think of 'How'd I do that thing with [drunk]?' all I have to do is open the help file, and there's my thing.

It's probably a little messy (a lot messy?) but nobody says you can't add to the built-in reference materials for your own nefarious purposes.

Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 11:26
----------------------------------------------------
> I Agree
> But I am always afraid to forget what I 've learn during these long hours searching.
> Because the next time you will need this trick could be in a year !
> Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special folder, but there are now so many now ...
>
> re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in max.
> So a quick search in this forum and www.maxobjects.com is always a good start.
----------------------------------------------------

I did this by accident, but I think I may start doing it on purpose from now on:  I was toying around with [drunk] and trying to get it to react a certain way, and accidentally saved the help file.  I didn't end up using that particular implementation, but I did like it - and now whenever I think of 'How'd I do that thing with [drunk]?' all I have to do is open the help file, and there's my thing.

It's probably a little messy (a lot messy?) but nobody says you can't add to the built-in reference materials for your own nefarious purposes.


your idea is great, many times I said to myself " this help should feature this info from Reference".

I don't think it could arm Max behavior if we customize this.

Maybe it could be erased by an update, if the updater overwrite the Helps.

Quote: MuShoo wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 23:38

> Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 11:26

> > But I am always afraid to forget what I 've learn during these long hours searching.

> > Because the next time you will need this trick could be in a year !

> > Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special folder, but there are now so many now ...

> > re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in max.

> > So a quick search in this forum and www.maxobjects.com is always a good start.

> I did this by accident, but I think I may start doing it on purpose from now on: I was toying around with [drunk] and trying to get it to react a certain way, and accidentally saved the help file. I didn't end up using that particular implementation, but I did like it - and now whenever I think of 'How'd I do that thing with [drunk]?' all I have to do is open the help file, and there's my thing.

> It's probably a little messy (a lot messy?) but nobody says you can't add to the built-in reference materials for your own nefarious purposes.

Quote: MuShoo wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 23:38
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 27 July 2008 11:26
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > I Agree
> > But I am always afraid to forget what I 've learn during these long hours searching.
> > Because the next time you will need this trick could be in a year !
> > Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special folder, but there are now so many now ...
> >
> > re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in max.
> > So a quick search in this forum and www.maxobjects.com is always a good start.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I did this by accident, but I think I may start doing it on purpose from now on:  I was toying around with [drunk] and trying to get it to react a certain way, and accidentally saved the help file.  I didn't end up using that particular implementation, but I did like it - and now whenever I think of 'How'd I do that thing with [drunk]?' all I have to do is open the help file, and there's my thing.
>
> It's probably a little messy (a lot messy?) but nobody says you can't add to the built-in reference materials for your own nefarious purposes.
----------------------------------------------------


> Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special

> folder, but there are now so many now ...

That is, why I created my Max Overview. Basically to keep track with my 

> re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in 

Don't fear it, I love it. If you want to get an idea how often I

reinvent the wheel, look at my Stools collection. I have maybe 4

different ways to deal with rotary Midi controllers. I keep them all for

personal compatibility reasons, but to find out what the best way is, it

needs some time. Its your personal evolution. (It seems I prefer the 

less complete, but also less complicated solutions...)

Its like learning to walk, there is no way to learn it without falling...

Olivier Sebillotte schrieb:
> Of course I save such patches with an attractive name in a special
> folder, but there are now so many now ...

That is, why I created my Max Overview. Basically to keep track with my 
own creations...

> re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in 
> max.

Don't fear it, I love it. If you want to get an idea how often I
reinvent the wheel, look at my Stools collection. I have maybe 4
different ways to deal with rotary Midi controllers. I keep them all for
personal compatibility reasons, but to find out what the best way is, it
needs some time. Its your personal evolution. (It seems I prefer the 
less complete, but also less complicated solutions...)
Its like learning to walk, there is no way to learn it without falling...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


On 28 Jul 2008, at 12:15, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>> re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in 

Same here. It's odd: even though I'm really big on code reuse and 

common libraries in conventional software development, I hardly ever 

do either in MaxMSP, despite having a close-to-twenty-year development 

footprint. For every new project I start from scratch, maybe doing a 

"copying collection" and renaming of something useful from an old 

project, and I basically use no third-party externals. (I think in the 

last two or three years I have used exactly one: freeverb~.)

I think it's partly an issue of reliability and testing (refactoring 

is dangerous in an unstructured realtime environment), partly to do 

with difficulties in specifying simple, robust APIs for components, 

partly burned fingers from externals which died under a change of 

architecture and/or OS, and partly an artist's slightly neurotic not- 

>> re-inventing the wheel is always my biggest fear when I program in  
>> max.
>
> Don't fear it, I love it.

Same here. It's odd: even though I'm really big on code reuse and  
common libraries in conventional software development, I hardly ever  
do either in MaxMSP, despite having a close-to-twenty-year development  
footprint. For every new project I start from scratch, maybe doing a  
"copying collection" and renaming of something useful from an old  
project, and I basically use no third-party externals. (I think in the  
last two or three years I have used exactly one: freeverb~.)

I think it's partly an issue of reliability and testing (refactoring  
is dangerous in an unstructured realtime environment), partly to do  
with difficulties in specifying simple, robust APIs for components,  
partly burned fingers from externals which died under a change of  
architecture and/or OS, and partly an artist's slightly neurotic not- 
invented-here syndrome.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net


Actually, my sentence wasn't totaly true.

I had this fear when I started max one year ago.

Now I get more and more confident in my work, especialy since I wrote my first real patch :

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=146990&rid=0&srch=sophocles#msg_146990

I used Max5's objects only to ensure stability, Mac/Pc compatibility and long run evolution.

If I had to rebuild it now, I would change some sections for sure, but the facts remains, this patch runs fine and can be updated.

Talking about update, I updated from max 4 to 5 at the very beginning of this project, it was a real pleasure to get all the helps and references so easily.

Life is definitly easisier for Max beginers with version 5.

Thanks again people at cycling for this great job, Max deserved this !

I should'nt be scared.
Actually, my sentence wasn't totaly true.
I had this fear when I started max one year ago.
Now I get more and more confident in my work, especialy since I wrote my first real patch :
https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=146990&rid=0&srch=sophocles#msg_146990

Thanks again people at cycling for this great job, Max deserved this !


Momentary button with down/up state?