selalou10@yahoo.com

I have been slamming my head up against the same little problem (in a big project) for at least 10 days. It is blowing my mind, and i am losing it.

I am at the breaking point for today, and to calm myself back down, i am going to grab a beer or two at the bar.

I am so desperate to solve this thing, I was just putting my jacket on to leave, thinking, "I am going to walk into every bar in my area and call out to all the patrons, asking if any know a thing or two about Max/msp."

This is obviously an insane idea. the odds are next to none that i'd find somebody. But I need face time with some really well-versed max/msp developers.

and thats when i remembered, I could reach out to you guys here, in cyberspace.

I need help. really badly... I will buy the beers, if you come meet up with me and check out this little bug and offer some ideas.

please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain from imploding!

I have been slamming my head up against the same little problem (in a big project) for at least 10 days.  It is blowing my mind, and i am losing it.

This is obviously an insane idea.  the odds are next to none that i'd find somebody.  But I need face time with some really well-versed max/msp developers.

nyc-ers-please-help-prevent-my-imminent-cranial-implosion

> please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain

Next flight from Paris is tomorrow morning and will take 6 hours, as 

seth schrieb:
> please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain
> from imploding!
>
> I'll be at the bar!  please email me!

Next flight from Paris is tomorrow morning and will take 6 hours, as 
soon you book it, I'll come over... ;-)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

Im in NYC, as are many Maxers. Whats the issue? Im not a big drinker 

though. Blow and Hookers? :) (Im joking Wally, settle down).

Whats the problem? 10 days is plenty. Send the patch along and 

On Jan 16, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>> please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain

> Next flight from Paris is tomorrow morning and will take 6 hours, as 

> soon you book it, I'll come over... ;-)

Im in NYC, as are many Maxers. Whats the issue? Im not a big drinker  
though. Blow and Hookers? :) (Im joking Wally, settle down).

Whats the problem? 10 days is plenty. Send the patch along and  
describe it.

> seth schrieb:
>> please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain
>> from imploding!
>> I'll be at the bar!  please email me!
>
> Next flight from Paris is tomorrow morning and will take 6 hours, as  
> soon you book it, I'll come over... ;-)
>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>


although the problem i'm encountering is small, the project it is in is huge. Its the kind of thing that needs to be settled on my computer, i believe. Sending the project over would involve sending you many, many patches, and would also require some trouble shooting to get it working properly on a new computer. to really tackle this lil guy, i think i need someone to look at it in person. please trust me on this.

Not into beer? thats totally cool. Hows about a hamburger? Vegetarian? hows about some sweet potato fries? Either way, its an opportunity to meet, greet, and aid a fellow max freak.

I love your enthusiasm! Hows about this: if you buy the ticket, I will give you free room and board for as long as you want to stay in NYC. thats a steal if you ask me.

Alternatively, I know a guy that works an international shipping store in La Rochelle. if you want to train it west to his store, I can get you to NYC, one way in a first class oversized cardboard box, for free, so long as you aren't allergic to the styrofoam popcorn. ;-)

although the problem i'm encountering is small, the project it is in is huge.  Its the kind of thing that needs to be settled on my computer, i believe.  Sending the project over would involve sending you many, many patches, and would also require some trouble shooting to get it working properly on a new computer.  to really tackle this lil guy, i think i need someone to look at it in person. please trust me on this.

Not into beer?  thats totally cool.  Hows about a hamburger?  Vegetarian?  hows about some sweet potato fries?  Either way, its an opportunity to meet, greet, and aid a fellow max freak.

I love your enthusiasm!  Hows about this:  if you buy the ticket, I will give you free room and board for as long as you want to stay in NYC. thats a steal if you ask me.

Alternatively, I know a guy that works an international shipping store in La Rochelle.  if you want to train it west to his store, I can get you to NYC, one way in a first class oversized cardboard box, for free, so long as you aren't allergic to the styrofoam popcorn.   ;-)

> so long as you aren't allergic to the styrofoam popcorn.

Too bad, I am. Happy you didn't implode yet.

Btw, you could zip your whole project and put it on rapidshare. Nobody 

Btw, any big project will see its time to do it again from scratch...

seth schrieb:
> so long as you aren't allergic to the styrofoam popcorn.

Btw, you could zip your whole project and put it on rapidshare. Nobody 
will steal this mess anyway... ;-)

You could probably stop by Harvestworks www.harvestworks.org on Broadway or go to Share www.share.dj on sunday on Avenue A and pic the brains of many max/msp peeps in person. 

Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:27:03 PM

Subject: [maxmsp] NYC-ers please help prevent my imminent cranial implosion!

I have been slamming my head up against the same little problem (in a

big project) for at least 10 days. It is blowing my mind, and i am

I am at the breaking point for today, and to calm myself back down, i

am going to grab a beer or two at the bar.

I am so desperate to solve this thing, I was just putting my jacket on

to leave, thinking, "I am going to walk into every bar in my area and

call out to all the patrons, asking if any know a thing or two about

This is obviously an insane idea. the odds are next to none that i'd

find somebody. But I need face time with some really well-versed

and thats when i remembered, I could reach out to you guys here, in

I need help. really badly... I will buy the beers, if you come meet up

with me and check out this little bug and offer some ideas.

please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Seth,
You could probably stop by Harvestworks www.harvestworks.org on Broadway or go to Share www.share.dj on sunday on Avenue A and pic the brains of many max/msp peeps in person. 
-chuck  

----- Original Message ----
From: seth 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:27:03 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] NYC-ers please help prevent my imminent cranial implosion!

I have been slamming my head up against the same little problem (in a
 big project) for at least 10 days.  It is blowing my mind, and i am
 losing it.

I am at the breaking point for today, and to calm myself back down, i
 am going to grab a beer or two at the bar.

I am so desperate to solve this thing, I was just putting my jacket on
 to leave, thinking, "I am going to walk into every bar in my area and
 call out to all the patrons, asking if any know a thing or two about
 Max/msp."

This is obviously an insane idea.  the odds are next to none that i'd
 find somebody.  But I need face time with some really well-versed
 max/msp developers.

and thats when i remembered, I could reach out to you guys here, in
 cyberspace.

I need help. really badly... I will buy the beers, if you come meet up
 with me and check out this little bug and offer some ideas.

please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain
 from imploding!

Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 

where have i been? SHARE sounds absolutely amazing!

where have i been?  SHARE sounds absolutely amazing!

> I have been slamming my head up against the same little problem (in a big

> project) for at least 10 days. It is blowing my mind, and i am losing it.

> I am at the breaking point for today, and to calm myself back down, i am going

> I am so desperate to solve this thing, I was just putting my jacket on to

> leave, thinking, "I am going to walk into every bar in my area and call out to

> all the patrons, asking if any know a thing or two about Max/msp."

> This is obviously an insane idea. the odds are next to none that i'd find

> somebody. But I need face time with some really well-versed max/msp

> and thats when i remembered, I could reach out to you guys here, in

> I need help. really badly... I will buy the beers, if you come meet up with me

> and check out this little bug and offer some ideas.

> please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain from

>
> Hi guys.  
>
> I have been slamming my head up against the same little problem (in a big
> project) for at least 10 days.  It is blowing my mind, and i am losing it.
>
> I am at the breaking point for today, and to calm myself back down, i am going
> to grab a beer or two at the bar.
>
> I am so desperate to solve this thing, I was just putting my jacket on to
> leave, thinking, "I am going to walk into every bar in my area and call out to
> all the patrons, asking if any know a thing or two about Max/msp."
>
> This is obviously an insane idea.  the odds are next to none that i'd find
> somebody.  But I need face time with some really well-versed max/msp
> developers.
>
> and thats when i remembered, I could reach out to you guys here, in
> cyberspace.
>
> I need help. really badly... I will buy the beers, if you come meet up with me
> and check out this little bug and offer some ideas.
>
> I'm in the east village...
>
> please let me know if you can meet up tonight, and save my poor brain from
> imploding!
>
> I'll be at the bar!  please email me!
>
> love you guys!
>
>
> selalou10@yahoo.com

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:09 AM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

----
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home 
SFIFEM 
Atrium Sound Space 
OVOS 
CMP 


whats life without a little drama? (and really though, the drama was to make y'all laugh more than it was to scare anyone into action).

No fright on this end. I actually like to help if I can but your long

message gave no hint as to what your problem was. Often these problems

involve something that others have experienced. I might not have been able

to help but a hint or two - a patch? - may have jogged someone's memory.

Most of us diagnose but few make house calls. That's the real value of this

> whats life without a little drama? (and really though, the drama was to make

> y'all laugh more than it was to scare anyone into action).

No fright on this end.  I actually like to help if I can but your long
message gave no hint as to what your problem was.  Often these problems
involve something that others have experienced. I might not have been able
to help but a hint or two - a patch? - may have jogged someone's memory.
Most of us diagnose but few make house calls.  That's the real value of this
little brain trust we have going here.

>
> Hahah!
>
> nice one.
>
> whats life without a little drama? (and really though, the drama was to make
> y'all laugh more than it was to scare anyone into action).
>
> Gary, hope i didn't scare you too bad.
>
> -Drama Queen out;
>
> ;)


I guess i was looking for the exception....but i understand what you are saying.

Oh well, I did get the advice i needed in the end.

To find a local MAX cat, go to SHARE on sunday nights.

Oh well, I did get the advice i needed in the end. 

To find a local MAX cat, go to SHARE on sunday nights.
That'll do for me!

It would still be helpful to know your problem and how it was solved. Every

so often someone encounters a problem that should be shared with and known

by the community. That's how our combined knowledge grows.

> I guess i was looking for the exception....but i understand what you are

> Oh well, I did get the advice i needed in the end.

> To find a local MAX cat, go to SHARE on sunday nights.

It would still be helpful to know your problem and how it was solved.  Every
so often someone encounters a problem that should be shared with and known
by the community. That's how our combined knowledge grows.

>
> I guess i was looking for the exception....but i understand what you are
> saying.
>
> Oh well, I did get the advice i needed in the end.
>
> To find a local MAX cat, go to SHARE on sunday nights.
> That'll do for me!
>
> Thanks everyone.

This whole discussion reminds me of my own past troubles debugging large 

patches. Does anyone know of a good reference that will help people 

without a programming background learn how to debug? The more I do it, 

the better I become, but sometimes I run in circles around a few objects 

only to find out days later that the problem was actually in a different 

bit of stuff that I thought had been working (usually it seemed to be 

doing what I wanted, but doing it differently than I expected).

I guess what I'm looking for is a solid procedure to make my hunting 

more efficient. I need to be able to determine at what point of the 

debugging process I've exhausted the dumb programmer problems (e.g. int 

instead of float) and encountered a problem that's caused by a 

misunderstanding of how particular objects work. And then at what point 

to I determine that problem might actually be a bug in Max.

Any thoughts/suggestions? (I don't actually have a problem patch at the 

moment, more jsut looking to be prepared for the future...)

> It would still be helpful to know your problem and how it was solved. Every

> so often someone encounters a problem that should be shared with and known

> by the community. That's how our combined knowledge grows.

>> I guess i was looking for the exception....but i understand what you are

>> Oh well, I did get the advice i needed in the end.

>> To find a local MAX cat, go to SHARE on sunday nights.

This whole discussion reminds me of my own past troubles debugging large 
patches. Does anyone know of a good reference that will help people 
without a programming background learn how to debug? The more I do it, 
the better I become, but sometimes I run in circles around a few objects 
only to find out days later that the problem was actually in a different 
bit of stuff that I thought had been working (usually it seemed to be 
doing what I wanted, but doing it differently than I expected).

I guess what I'm looking for is a solid procedure to make my hunting 
more efficient. I need to be able to determine at what point of the 
debugging process I've exhausted the dumb programmer problems (e.g. int 
instead of float) and encountered a problem that's caused by a 
misunderstanding of how particular objects work. And then at what point 
to I determine that problem might actually be a bug in Max.

Any thoughts/suggestions? (I don't actually have a problem patch at the 
moment, more jsut looking to be prepared for the future...)

Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
> It would still be helpful to know your problem and how it was solved.  Every
> so often someone encounters a problem that should be shared with and known
> by the community. That's how our combined knowledge grows.
>
>
> On 1/17/08 12:31 PM, "seth"  wrote:
>
>
>> I guess i was looking for the exception....but i understand what you are
>> saying.
>>
>> Oh well, I did get the advice i needed in the end.
>>
>> To find a local MAX cat, go to SHARE on sunday nights.
>> That'll do for me!
>>
>> Thanks everyone.
>>
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>
>
>


I have thrown away many of my early patches because I simply could not

Don't make big patches. If it doesn't fit on your screen in a way that

makes everything clear then you need to divide into smaller units.

Modularize your patches. Create smallish objects that perform clearly fined

tasks and test them in a small controlled environment. Design them with the

idea that you or someone else will want to use them outside the context of

your current project. Comment them extensively.

If you find yourself cutting and pasting to make copies of functional parts,

consider things like subpatches, bpatcher, poly~.

Clean up routing of patch cords and avoid crossover when possible. Use

panels or color coding to identify parts of a patch that function as

individual logical units. Use the align function in the Object menu. Don't

tell yourself that you can clean it up later.

On 1/17/08 2:39 PM, "David Morneau" wrote:

> This whole discussion reminds me of my own past troubles debugging large

> patches. Does anyone know of a good reference that will help people

> without a programming background learn how to debug? The more I do it,

> the better I become, but sometimes I run in circles around a few objects

> only to find out days later that the problem was actually in a different

> bit of stuff that I thought had been working (usually it seemed to be

> doing what I wanted, but doing it differently than I expected).

> I guess what I'm looking for is a solid procedure to make my hunting

> more efficient. I need to be able to determine at what point of the

> debugging process I've exhausted the dumb programmer problems (e.g. int

> instead of float) and encountered a problem that's caused by a

> misunderstanding of how particular objects work. And then at what point

> to I determine that problem might actually be a bug in Max.

> Any thoughts/suggestions? (I don't actually have a problem patch at the

> moment, more jsut looking to be prepared for the future...)

I have thrown away many of my early patches because I simply could not
figure out what they do.

Don't make big patches.  If it doesn't fit on your screen in a way that
makes everything clear then you need to divide into smaller units.

Modularize your patches.  Create smallish objects that perform clearly fined
tasks and test them in a small controlled environment.  Design them with the
idea that you or someone else will want to use them outside the context of
your current project. Comment them extensively.

If you find yourself cutting and pasting to make copies of functional parts,
consider things like subpatches, bpatcher, poly~.

Clean up routing of patch cords and avoid crossover when possible.  Use
panels or color coding to identify parts of a patch that function as
individual logical units. Use the align function in the Object menu. Don't
tell yourself that you can clean it up later.

On 1/17/08 2:39 PM, "David Morneau"  wrote:

> This whole discussion reminds me of my own past troubles debugging large
> patches. Does anyone know of a good reference that will help people
> without a programming background learn how to debug? The more I do it,
> the better I become, but sometimes I run in circles around a few objects
> only to find out days later that the problem was actually in a different
> bit of stuff that I thought had been working (usually it seemed to be
> doing what I wanted, but doing it differently than I expected).
>
> I guess what I'm looking for is a solid procedure to make my hunting
> more efficient. I need to be able to determine at what point of the
> debugging process I've exhausted the dumb programmer problems (e.g. int
> instead of float) and encountered a problem that's caused by a
> misunderstanding of how particular objects work. And then at what point
> to I determine that problem might actually be a bug in Max.
>
> Any thoughts/suggestions? (I don't actually have a problem patch at the
> moment, more jsut looking to be prepared for the future...)
>
> Thanks
> David
>
>
>


few rules of mine regarding debuging and QA in general

2. get users - you are doing it right, get someone to do it wrong

0. clean - before posting to the list, clean your patch. get it to the

tiniest size which still show the symptom. 90% of the time when preparing to

submit a debugging plea i find it while downsizing.

1. understand the flow - of max and your program. see- How to manage large

https://cycling74.com/story/2007/2/5/142639/8843

On Jan 17, 2008 9:58 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

> I have thrown away many of my early patches because I simply could not

> Don't make big patches. If it doesn't fit on your screen in a way that

> makes everything clear then you need to divide into smaller units.

> Modularize your patches. Create smallish objects that perform clearly

> tasks and test them in a small controlled environment. Design them with

> idea that you or someone else will want to use them outside the context of

> your current project. Comment them extensively.

> If you find yourself cutting and pasting to make copies of functional

> consider things like subpatches, bpatcher, poly~.

> Clean up routing of patch cords and avoid crossover when possible. Use

> panels or color coding to identify parts of a patch that function as

> individual logical units. Use the align function in the Object menu. Don't

> tell yourself that you can clean it up later.

> On 1/17/08 2:39 PM, "David Morneau" wrote:

> > This whole discussion reminds me of my own past troubles debugging large

> > patches. Does anyone know of a good reference that will help people

> > without a programming background learn how to debug? The more I do it,

> > the better I become, but sometimes I run in circles around a few objects

> > only to find out days later that the problem was actually in a different

> > bit of stuff that I thought had been working (usually it seemed to be

> > doing what I wanted, but doing it differently than I expected).

> > I guess what I'm looking for is a solid procedure to make my hunting