Wilber

Ive recently discovered the SMS object that gives you acces to the accelerometers that are hardwired into the later genteration powerbook/macbook/pros.

I was wondering if anybody had heard of or had thought about making a similar object that gives you acces to the ambient light sensors built into the intel mac laptops?!?

im ver much interested in turning my laptop into an interactive musical interface outside of simply pressing buttons and using the mouse and i dont have the money to build or buy midi interfaces.

Ive recently discovered the SMS object that gives you acces to the accelerometers that are hardwired into the later genteration powerbook/macbook/pros.
I was wondering if anybody had heard of or had thought about making a similar object that gives you acces to the ambient light sensors built into the intel mac laptops?!? 

object-similar-to-sms-for-ambient-light

This was something I was trying to figure out last year and kept hitting brick walls....i.e. no API available from Apple. I'm also not much of a programmer. However, I just did another Google and came up with this:

http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter10/light/

Looks promising. Perhaps a smart programmer type will soon (or already has?) create an external and we'll all be waving our hands around our laptops like they were theremins. Seems much safer than shaking them around to use the motion sensor. ;)

Quote: Wilber wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 20:45

----------------------------------------------------

> I was wondering if anybody had heard of or had thought about making a similar object that gives you acces to the ambient light sensors built into the intel mac laptops?!? 

This was something I was trying to figure out last year and kept hitting brick walls....i.e. no API available from Apple.  I'm also not much of a programmer.  However, I just did another Google and came up with this:

Looks promising.  Perhaps a smart programmer type will soon (or already has?) create an external and we'll all be waving our hands around our laptops like they were theremins.  Seems much safer than shaking them around to use the motion sensor.  ;) 

Quote: Wilber wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 20:45
----------------------------------------------------
> I was wondering if anybody had heard of or had thought about making a similar object that gives you acces to the ambient light sensors built into the intel mac laptops?!? 
----------------------------------------------------


yeah i found the same article, but again my programming skills arent up to much! 

ive started working on a stand for my laptop that uses a ball joint to connect to the base so i can make more discreet leaning motions to make use of the accelerometers, didnt like picking it up and shaking it, id probably manage to make the HD actually turn itself off! :/

yeah i found the same article, but again my programming skills arent up to much! 
ive started working on a stand for my laptop that uses a ball joint to connect to the base so i can make more discreet leaning motions to make use of the accelerometers, didnt like picking it up and  shaking it, id probably manage to make the  HD actually turn itself off! :/

> yeah i found the same article, but again my

> ive started working on a stand for my laptop that

> uses a ball joint to connect to the base so i can

> make more discreet leaning motions to make use of

> the accelerometers, didnt like picking it up and 

> shaking it, id probably manage to make the HD

> keep me posted if you hear anything tho!

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>
> yeah i found the same article, but again my
> programming skills arent up to much! 
> ive started working on a stand for my laptop that
> uses a ball joint to connect to the base so i can
> make more discreet leaning motions to make use of
> the accelerometers, didnt like picking it up and 
> shaking it, id probably manage to make the  HD
> actually turn itself off! :/
>
> keep me posted if you hear anything tho!
>
> cheers
>
> Will
>

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Awesome, thanks! i was hoping to get some sleep tonight but that just went out of the window! :)

Dreams really do come true *chime sound*. Thanks for the link Luigi! For anyone who's curious, the light sensor does work with my 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook using Max/MSP4.6.2 but not in Max 4.5.7. I guess it's time I figure out why I get errors instantiating certain objects like "split" and switch to 4.6. Seems like I remember posts about that months ago when Cycling released the upgrade....to the archives!

Dreams really do come true *chime sound*.  Thanks for the link Luigi!  For anyone who's curious, the light sensor does work with my 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook using Max/MSP4.6.2 but not in Max 4.5.7.  I guess it's time I figure out why I get errors instantiating certain objects like "split" and switch to 4.6.  Seems like I remember posts about that months ago when Cycling released the upgrade....to the archives!


> yeah i found the same article, but again my programming skills arent

> up to much! ive started working on a stand for my laptop that uses a

> ball joint to connect to the base so i can make more discreet leaning

> motions to make use of the accelerometers, didnt like picking it up

> and shaking it, id probably manage to make the HD actually turn

This is a brilliant idea, you should turn it into a business and sell 

those ball joints, this would finally turn the laptop artist into a real 

WillChadwick wrote:
> yeah i found the same article, but again my programming skills arent
> up to much! ive started working on a stand for my laptop that uses a
> ball joint to connect to the base so i can make more discreet leaning
> motions to make use of the accelerometers, didnt like picking it up
> and  shaking it, id probably manage to make the  HD actually turn
> itself off! :/

This is a brilliant idea, you should turn it into a business and sell 
those ball joints, this would finally turn the laptop artist into a real 
musician...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


i disagree with the sweating brow theory, but i do think it

makes a good show, just not always good music. This is

coming from a guy (me) who has actually flung around his

laptop during performance and had to replace the HD (i

> yeah i found the same article, but again my programming 

> up to much! ive started working on a stand for my laptop 

> ball joint to connect to the base so i can make more 

> motions to make use of the accelerometers, didnt like 

> and shaking it, id probably manage to make the HD 

This is a brilliant idea, you should turn it into a 

those ball joints, this would finally turn the laptop 

Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

So movement makes one a real musician?  
i disagree with the sweating brow theory, but i do think it
makes a good show, just not always good music.   This is
coming from a guy (me) who has actually flung around his
laptop during performance and had to replace the HD (i
don't have the newest apple yet).   
-chuck 

WillChadwick wrote:
> yeah i found the same article, but again my programming 
skills arent
> up to much! ive started working on a stand for my laptop 
that uses a
> ball joint to connect to the base so i can make more 
discreet leaning
> motions to make use of the accelerometers, didnt like 
picking it up
> and  shaking it, id probably manage to make the  HD 
actually turn
> itself off! :/

This is a brilliant idea, you should turn it into a 
business and sell 
those ball joints, this would finally turn the laptop 
artist into a real 
musician...

Bored stiff? Loosen up... 
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front


>i disagree with the sweating brow theory, but i do think it

>makes a good show, just not always good music. This is

>coming from a guy (me) who has actually flung around his

>laptop during performance and had to replace the HD (i

i tottally agree, for me it just gives me some more options for a more gestural organic control interface withought the expense of a custom interface.

Of course though, you can have all the hi-tech or gadgety interfaces in the world and the music can still be rubbish! but i do definately think that more 'theatrical' performance tools allow the audience to better understand the dialogue between performer and laptop/interface and therfore the performance. for me there is a communicational element of some sort missing from purely keyboard based laptop performance.

>So movement makes one a real musician? 
>i disagree with the sweating brow theory, but i do think it
>makes a good show, just not always good music. This is
>coming from a guy (me) who has actually flung around his
>laptop during performance and had to replace the HD (i
>don't have the newest apple yet). 
>-chuck 

i tottally agree, for me it just gives me some more options for a more gestural organic control interface withought the expense of a custom interface.
Of course though, you can have all the hi-tech or gadgety interfaces in the world and the music can still be rubbish! but i do definately think that more 'theatrical' performance tools allow the audience to better understand the dialogue between performer and laptop/interface and therfore the performance. for me there is a communicational element of some sort missing from purely keyboard based laptop performance.

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/writing/papes/Why_I_Hate_Concerts.html

(I'm just in a randomly-posting mood these days!)

    http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/writing/papes/Why_I_Hate_Concerts.html

i did use 'theatrical' in its loosest terms, im certainly not talking about turning a laptop set into the blueman group, however i disagree with what Laurent says:

>If you're attending an organ concert in a church 

>context, you don't even SEE the musician 

>playing. Is it a problem ? And when you see the 

>musician, e.g. a violin player, you don't see a 

>theatrical performance, but two arms struggling 

>together to produce what is written on the 

>score. IMO, it's just the same with computer 

>music. I've played a lot of pieces written for 

>MaxMSP, performed of course on a computer (with 

>the trackpad as sole interface in most cases) 

>and, believe me, "reading" different areas of 

>the screen and the score at the same time while 

>moving a finger on the trackpad and clicking a 

>lot didn't leave me a lot of time to do a little 

im not saying an entriely new ellement should be added to the performnce,like the piece needs another level to be interesting, however i do believe that how you choose to execute that performance has a huge impact on how the audience relate to the music.

IMO, theres a vast difference between a violinist and a laptop. as an audience we are making assosiations between the physical gestures of the violinist and the sounds being produced. Our experience of that performance would be far less if you say closed your eyes. or if you turned a piano around so that you couldnt see the pianists hands. you may aswell listen to a CD on a good sound system, unless spatialisation plays a significant role, in which case that too provides a "dramatic" element to the perfoermance.

In the same sense the difference between using a trackpad (small and out of sight) and using say a tablet(larger and in sight), where the audience can make come kind of visual connection between your actions and sound you are playing, are huge in terms of how that performance is perceived.

although i know as a performer this is not true, as an audience memeber however for me its the difference between watching someone execute a set of commands dictated by a score and watching someone playing an instrument (be it laptop or other musical interface).

These are at least my thoughts on this, and i appreciate all the feedback im getting on this issue. i am slightly biased after seeing a lot of "dead" concert hall performances. There is then the whole other issue of venue...

>If you're attending an organ concert in a church 
>context, you don't even SEE the musician 
>playing. Is it a problem ? And when you see the 
>musician, e.g. a violin player, you don't see a 
>theatrical performance, but two arms struggling 
>together to produce what is written on the 
>score. IMO, it's just the same with computer 
>music. I've played a lot of pieces written for 
>MaxMSP, performed of course on a computer (with 
>the trackpad as sole interface in most cases) 
>and, believe me, "reading" different areas of 
>the screen and the score at the same time while 
>moving a finger on the trackpad and clicking a 
>lot didn't leave me a lot of time to do a little 
>dance.

im not saying an entriely new ellement should be added to the performnce,like the piece needs another level to be interesting, however i do believe that how you choose to execute that performance has a huge impact on how the audience relate to the music.
IMO, theres a vast difference between a violinist and a laptop. as an audience we are making assosiations between the physical gestures of the violinist and the sounds being produced. Our experience of that performance would be far less if you say closed your eyes. or if you turned a piano around so that you couldnt see the pianists hands. you may aswell listen to a CD on a good sound system, unless spatialisation plays a significant role, in which case that too provides a "dramatic" element to the perfoermance.
In the same sense the difference between using a trackpad (small and out of sight) and using say a tablet(larger and in sight), where the audience can make come kind of visual connection between your actions and sound you are playing, are huge in terms of how that performance is perceived.
although i know as a performer this is not true, as an audience memeber however for me its the difference between watching someone execute a set of commands dictated by a score and watching someone playing an instrument (be it laptop or other musical interface).

The problem with performances is basically people go to SEE

instead of LISTEN. No matter how much your music may be

mind blowing, it will be taken lightly by many who go for

the SEE factor. i like to equate this back to the early

human cultures. Music has always been a form of

communication. Going to see a show is ritual, similar to

early gatherings (not much has changed). The performer is

the shaman who must draw in the audience and control the

room (will not get into size of venues or "vibe" ). Some

require movement to feel compelled to become one with the

music, others (perhaps more "in tune" with the music) will

Those who like to go to gigs can utilize the ritual for

social aspects, nothing wrong with that, music =

communication. If that is what brings you together, so be

it. IF you are the type of person whom would rather listen

to a cd, you should. For me, live music is ALWAYS better.

No matter how fucked up it is (sound or performance). 

You can feel the music when you are there, experiencing it

in real time; on a cd/lp/mp3 you just do not have the same

Perhaps we need start a new thread called: "Future

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

The problem with performances is basically people go to SEE
instead of LISTEN.   No matter how much your music may be
mind blowing, it will be taken lightly by many who go for
the SEE factor.   i like to equate this back to the early
human cultures.   Music has always been a form of
communication.  Going to see a show is ritual, similar to
early gatherings (not much has changed).   The performer is
the shaman who must draw in the audience and control the
room (will not get into size of venues or "vibe" ).    Some
require movement to feel compelled to become one with the
music, others (perhaps more "in tune" with the music) will
just use their ears.

Those who like to go to gigs can utilize the ritual for
social aspects, nothing wrong with that, music =
communication. If that is what brings you together, so be
it.  IF you are the type of person whom would rather listen
to a cd, you should.   For me, live music is ALWAYS better.
  No matter how fucked up it is (sound or performance).   
You can feel the music when you are there, experiencing it
in real time;  on a cd/lp/mp3 you just do not have the same
vibration.    

Perhaps we need start a new thread called: "Future
Primitive"

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> i did use 'theatrical' in its loosest terms, im certainly not talking about turning a laptop set into the blueman group, however i disagree with what Laurent says:

>> If you're attending an organ concert in a church 

>> context, you don't even SEE the musician 

Laurent; Is it a problem? No. Would the audience be better served if 

they could see the sweat on the brow of the organist, him pulling stops 

and feet flying around in a wild fugue? Absolutely! In fact, the organ 

is quite the performance instrument, once you've seen a proper organist 

It is clear to me that, all things being equal, if the performance 

speaks to me visually, and in a way that lets me relate the performers 

movements to the sound, then there is added enjoyment in it for me. And 

if I (God Forbid!) can see the performer ENJOYING him-/herself, then I 

am all the more likely to do so myself, and I also feel it emotes more, 

Laurent, have you never had the feeling that adding a midi controller or 

similar to a performance adds not only expression, but enjoyment and fun 

to the process? I personally know a few people who would rather be 

caught dead than look like they were enjoying themselves while 

"performing", naturally. It's academia, after all...

WillChadwick skrev:
> i did use 'theatrical' in its loosest terms, im certainly not talking about turning a laptop set into the blueman group, however i disagree with what Laurent says:
>
>> If you're attending an organ concert in a church 
>> context, you don't even SEE the musician 
>> playing. Is it a problem ? 
[...]
Some good points there, Will.
Laurent; Is it a problem? No. Would the audience be better served if 
they could see the sweat on the brow of the organist, him pulling stops 
and feet flying around in a wild fugue? Absolutely! In fact, the organ 
is quite the performance instrument, once you've seen a proper organist 
work it, as I'm sure you know.

It is clear to me that, all things being equal, if the performance 
speaks to me visually, and in a way that lets me relate the performers 
movements to the sound, then there is added enjoyment in it for me. And 
if I (God Forbid!) can see the performer ENJOYING him-/herself, then I 
am all the more likely to do so myself, and I also feel it emotes more, 
as a result.

Laurent, have you never had the feeling that adding a midi controller or 
similar to a performance adds not only expression, but enjoyment and fun 
to the process? I personally know a few people who would rather be 
caught dead than look like they were enjoying themselves while 
"performing", naturally. It's academia, after all...

> I disagree with you, Will. If you're attending an organ concert in a 

> church context, you don't even SEE the musician playing. Is it a 

Yes, it is, but its only harder to understand whats going on musically,

its not impossible and with an organ its still relatively easy, because

> And when you see the musician, e.g. a violin player, you don't see a 

> theatrical performance, but two arms struggling together to produce 

You see much more than that, you get an idea about the process of making

music, especially if you don't play that instrument, you will see the

expression and the effort which is necessary to make it happen. This

isn't the music itself, but it helps a lot to get into it as a listener.

> IMO, it's just the same with computer music. I've played a lot of 

> pieces written for MaxMSP, performed of course on a computer (with 

> the trackpad as sole interface in most cases) and, believe me, 

> "reading" different areas of the screen and the score at the same 

> time while moving a finger on the trackpad and clicking a lot didn't

> leave me a lot of time to do a little dance.

Its only the same if there is something else than a trackpad or mouse.

These are the worst controlers for music imaginable, the problem is: you

I always use at least some faderboxes to control my stuff...

The native interface of the computer is the keyboard, not the trackpad. 

I'd consider a music which needs the trackpad/mouse to be performed 

badly designed... (though I don't reject it myself... ;-)

> The choice is musical gestures vs theatrical gestures.

The choice is visual feedback vs musical feadback... btw. there is no 

contradiction between musical and theatrical gestures, it could have 

both at the same time and that helps to make a performance transport the 

laurent dailleau wrote:
> I disagree with you, Will. If you're attending an organ concert in a 
> church context, you don't even SEE the musician playing. Is it a 
> problem ?

Yes, it is, but its only harder to understand whats going on musically,
its not impossible and with an organ its still relatively easy, because
the soundworld is wellknown and limited.

> And when you see the musician, e.g. a violin player, you don't see a 
> theatrical  performance, but two arms struggling together to produce 
> what is written on the score.

You see much more than that, you get an idea about the process of making
music, especially if you don't play that instrument, you will see the
expression and the effort which is necessary to make it happen. This
isn't the music itself, but it helps a lot to get into it as a listener.

> IMO, it's just the same with computer music. I've played a lot of 
> pieces written for MaxMSP, performed of course on a computer (with 
> the trackpad as sole interface in most cases) and, believe me, 
> "reading"  different areas of the screen and the score at the same 
> time while moving a finger on the trackpad and clicking a lot didn't
> leave me a lot of time to do a little dance.

Its only the same if there is something else than a trackpad or mouse.
These are the worst controlers for music imaginable, the problem is: you
can't close your eyes and just play...
I always use at least some faderboxes to control my stuff...
The native interface of the computer is the keyboard, not the trackpad. 
I'd consider a music which needs the trackpad/mouse to be performed 
badly designed... (though I don't reject it myself... ;-)

The choice is visual feedback vs musical feadback... btw. there is no 
contradiction between musical and theatrical gestures, it could have 
both at the same time and that helps to make a performance transport the 
music.

> I simply hate when a musician on stage "makes a show"

But you make very nice shows, nice lights and ambience, very little 

movements but the process is very transparent. Maybe most "shows" just 

Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
> I simply hate when a musician on stage "makes a show"

But you make very nice shows, nice lights and ambience, very little 
movements but the process is very transparent. Maybe most "shows" just 
don't meet your taste...

On Feb 6, 2007, at 1:48 PM, WillChadwick wrote:

> im certainly not talking about turning a laptop set into the 

It would sell out in New York, Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Berlin, 

London, Amsterdam, and Alpha Centauri, allowing one to purchase their 

I eagerly await the elimination of theater entirely so that we can 

*finally* listen, instead of staring at the violinist's psychedelic 

eyebrow movement. Man, is that ever disturbing.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nothingness/

> im certainly not talking about turning a laptop set into the  
> blueman group

It would sell out in New York, Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Berlin,  
London, Amsterdam, and Alpha Centauri, allowing one to purchase their  
own rocket for space colonization.

I eagerly await the elimination of theater entirely so that we can  
*finally* listen, instead of staring at the violinist's psychedelic  
eyebrow movement. Man, is that ever disturbing.

>The problem with performances is basically people go to SEE

I doubt this is really a problem. Either way you experience "something"

>The problem with performances is basically people go to SEE
>instead of LISTEN.   

I doubt this is really a problem. Either way you experience "something"
and thats what its all about.. no?

I don't think it's fair to equate current laptop performers to more

"standard" instrumentalists. Do not get me wrong, this isn't an

argument of legitimacy since sound is sound etc etc so on and so

forth, but part of the reason you don't see too many laptopists

closing their eyes and just playing is frankly because they're not

You'll rarely see a 5th grade violin player close his/her eyes and

deliver a magnificent performance aside from a few very very rare

object similar to [sms] for ambient light?