patrickkidd

I am trying to observe changes in the x-y offset of the session ring (the colored box in Live's session view that shows the scope of your control surface's grid). I am able to change the offsets by calling [set_offsets $1 $2] on the control surface's SessionComponent (SpecialSessionComponent in Push), but can't find any properties or components on that object to observe the value, or even poll the value for that matter.

Has anyone had any experience observing the session ring offset on a control_surface's SessionComponent? I have been using the following patch to query the SessionComponent's attributes:

observing-session-ring-offsets-in-max

Some (yet inconclusive) digging through the _Framework and Push scripts. I found two functions on the SessionComponent:

which accurately return the offsets I'm looking for but aren't observable properties. So looking for something observable....I'm seeing that the SpecialSessionComponent has a

callback function which is called whenever the offset is changed. This function calls the

function on the SessionComponent object, which as advertised returns the x-index of the session ring. I also see the function

on the SpecialSessionComponent, which leads me to believe that there is some way to add listeners. But how does one do that? And what is the 'offset' @subject_slot? What is a "slot" in general? Some kind of listener? Then back in the ControlSurface object, I see the function

ControlSurface.set_highlighting_session_component

which is called on init by the Push script and sets the ControlSurface's highlight callback to the ControlSurfaces

self._c_instance.set_session_highlight(track_offset, scene_offset, width, height, include_return_tracks)

In all of this I don't see any indication that there is a component or property containing the values of SessionComponent.track_offset and SessionComponent.scene_offset that can be observed for changes. Further, ControlSurface._c_instance is no doubt an CPython object linked in with the Ableton executable that serves as an API entry-point, and it isn't created in python so I can only assume the object's attributes and methods are also as good as hidden from us unless I hack out some python scripts to do some object introspection. Ughh....

The other option is to observe button presses on Push's arrow keys and poll the track_offset and scene_offset functions. But hey, are there any Live script experts out there? I have yet to find one.

I'm having this same issue (although with a custom Launchpad Script i've made). I think it might be possible to add a listener to scene and track offset. I'm just going to use the listeners that are already on the bank buttons to call the offset functions, but if you're inclined you could try messing around with a remote script and doing something like:

session.track_offset.add_value_listener([stuff idk])

Yes you have to observe the button presses after session mode has been engaged, on our Allen and Heath K Series and TouchAble scripts we've made this property observable... You have to make controls for both of them...

Thanks for re-awakening this thread, since I never posted my findings again. It turns out that, at least for Push, the SpecialSessionComponent isn't created until the session mode button is pressed. So you have to listen and wait for the first press of this button, and then search and find the SpecialSessionComponent in order to observer the session x offset.

Here is the code I ended up with called [pk.observe_session_x_offset]:

I am using that old APC40 however and I doubt the process would be identical for this device. At least I couldn't get it to work even after modifying some commands/properties in the patches.

Be that as it may, is it reliable to observe button presses? I had to conjure up a similar method where I observe the navigator buttons via incoming midi notes as opposed to using the internal Live API to do so. Question is: What happens when they are pressed during zoomed view? Are they still counted or clipped when the final scene/track is reached? How can the number of tracks/scenes shifted be observed when one holds down the navigators to scroll along? Seems to me that one must certainly avoid doing this as for it cannot be that reliable… am I wrong here? (Would certainly hope to be wrong)

It is truly a shame that a track/scene index of the session grid cannot be accessed in any [official] way, handling complex Live Sets would highly profit from being able to view & access desired parts of the session without having to search for, or, arrange them in a predetermined fashion to keep an overview.

Any news on the topic and I'll be around for sure!

Thanks for all your research and feedback so far!

PS: if however it is desired — above all other comfort — to access certain clip grids directly to control them, a latency-ridden workaround would be to

1) observe the number of scenes and tracks respectively

2) imitate the up (#94) and left (#97) button presses as many times to navigate to the beginning, and ultimately

3) imitate the down (#95) and right (#96) button presses as many times as one wants to navigate to the desired grid of clips

these could be saved to a pattrstorage, midi learned and called upon where needed.

Yet, if new scenes and/or tracks are being added to the set in the meantime, consecutive scenes/tracks would have to likewise be shifted (+1 to pattr objects), and that's where it gets less reliable again. Furthermore, The control surface would take its time to navigate back and then forth again, and time may be valuable… so it isn't really a top class solution.

Thanks for sharing your work,
I am using that old APC40 however and I doubt the process would be identical for this device. At least I couldn't get it to work even after modifying some commands/properties in the patches.
Be that as it may, is it reliable to observe button presses? I had to conjure up a similar method where I observe the navigator buttons via incoming midi notes as opposed to using the internal Live API to do so. Question is: What happens when they are pressed during zoomed view? Are they still counted or clipped when the final scene/track is reached? How can the number of tracks/scenes shifted be observed when one holds down the navigators to scroll along? Seems to me that one must certainly avoid doing this as for it cannot be that reliable… am I wrong here? (Would certainly hope to be wrong)
It is truly a shame that a track/scene index of the session grid cannot be accessed in any [official] way, handling complex Live Sets would highly profit from being able to view & access desired parts of the session without having to search for, or, arrange them in a predetermined fashion to keep an overview.

Any news on the topic and I'll be around for sure!
Thanks for all your research and feedback so far!

PS: if however it is desired — above all other comfort — to access certain clip grids directly to control them, a latency-ridden workaround would be to
1) observe the number of scenes and tracks respectively
2) imitate the up (#94) and left (#97) button presses as many times to navigate to the beginning, and ultimately
3) imitate the down (#95) and right (#96) button presses as many times as one wants to navigate to the desired grid of clips

Yet, if new scenes and/or tracks are being added to the set in the meantime, consecutive scenes/tracks would have to likewise be shifted (+1 to pattr objects), and that's where it gets less reliable again. Furthermore, The control surface would take its time to navigate back and then forth again, and time may be valuable… so it isn't really a top class solution.


Shogun, I had trouble reading and retaining all the information in your post and remembering each question. Unfortunately, I am not an APC user.

I have found that M4L apis have lots of details and subtle behavioral nuances and the documentation is poor and the active form users are few. However, I have also found that most problems boil down to someone just needing to put the time in to play around with the feature, refine their understanding, and publish it somewhere. Hopefully some day will will have a site with a really great semi-comprehensive collection of docs, and tutorials, and Q&A forums, but it will have to come from the community!

Such a site is one of my small plans should I find myself with extra time in the future...

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the ones you should look for... As the Offsets can only be got rather than observed you can simply set up five observers, one for each of the bank buttons and the fifth for the shift button...

If each is set to a Sel 0 object then the bang will be sent when the button is released... This then gives you grid coordinates...

The APC40 implementation is unlikely to be repeated, COntrols rather than components are the way forwards...

You should see the new LaunchPAd PRO implementation it's awesome!!

you were quite right about the Launchpad Pro integration: it is indeed awesome, especially because the Session Grid Offset is most easily controlled remotely and reliably. Positions of the Session Ring can be saved to device presets and called upon via MIDI control or from within clips so this issue is finally solved. I assume if one links up all control surfaces in Ableton then the other Session Rings would too be moved to desired positions, but I only use one so I haven't tested this. The Launchpad Pro implementation lets you get the current scene/track offsets (observation not necessary) and apply new positions bmo function: set_offsets $1 $2.

path: control_surfaces [x]* components 4 —> live.object

function: call scene_offset —> live.object —> gives the current Scene offset (int)

function: call track_offset —> live.object —> gives the current Track offset (int)

function: call set_offsets X Y —> live.object —> applies the X/Y positions to the Session Ring

* [x] is the index of the Launchpad Pro Remote Script in the list of Remote Scripts (preferences), when at the top (red Session Ring), this is 0.

components 4 is the SpecialSessionRingComponent.

PS: I have built a M4L device to enable MIDI Remote Control for this function, so if anyone needs it, just gimme a sign and I'll post it.

yes S4RACEN,
you were quite right about the Launchpad Pro integration: it is indeed awesome, especially because the Session Grid Offset is most easily controlled remotely and reliably. Positions of the Session Ring can be saved to device presets and called upon via MIDI control or from within clips so this issue is finally solved. I assume if one links up all control surfaces in Ableton then the other Session Rings would too be moved to desired positions, but I only use one so I haven't tested this. The Launchpad Pro implementation lets you get the current scene/track offsets (observation not necessary) and apply new positions bmo function: set_offsets $1 $2.

path: control_surfaces [x]* components 4 —> live.object
function: call scene_offset —> live.object —> gives the current Scene offset (int)
function: call track_offset —> live.object —> gives the current Track offset (int)
function: call set_offsets X Y —> live.object —> applies the X/Y positions to the Session Ring

* [x] is the index of the Launchpad Pro Remote Script in the list of Remote Scripts (preferences), when at the top (red Session Ring), this is 0.
components 4 is the SpecialSessionRingComponent.

This is truly awesome.
Thanks for the hint.

PS: I have built a M4L device to enable MIDI Remote Control for this function, so if anyone needs it, just gimme a sign and I'll post it.


Our LaunchSync Device does all of this and allows you to link together different control surfaces in a variety of ways so they follow each other...

http://isotonikstudios.com/isotonik/launchsync-series/

those devices seem very useful — do they work with ANY control surface (APC40, Livid CNTRL:R etc…) or merely with Novation scripts?

I only own the Launchpad Pro and my M4L patch does the whole job already so the Isotonik devices would only be of help if they support older control surfaces like the APC40 or other remote scripts… do they???

@S4RACEN
those devices seem very useful — do they work with ANY control surface (APC40, Livid CNTRL:R etc…) or merely with Novation scripts?
I only own the Launchpad Pro and my M4L patch does the whole job already so the Isotonik devices would only be of help if they support older control surfaces like the APC40 or other remote scripts… do they???


Heres the list of control surfaces we've tested against, as you can see it's not an exhaustive one of all the controllers out there but it does a pretty good job for all those that have a red box...

Allen and Heath K2 (Using the Isotonik2 Script available at www.isotonikstudios.com)

Novation LaunchKey MINI - by default you can only move this controller in banks of 8, the

device allows it to be moved track by track

Novation LaunchKey 49 - by default you can only move this controller in banks of 8, the

device allows it to be moved track by track)

For the Livid controllers the answer is that it should do but i can't claim a definite without testing myself, theres an LE version for Free at the bottom of the page that will sync two devices together for you to test...

AKAI Push
AKAI APC40
AKAI APC40 MKII
Allen and Heath K2 (Using the Isotonik2 Script available at www.isotonikstudios.com)
Novation LaunchPad
Novation LaunchPad S
Novation LaunchPad PRO
Novation LaunchControl !
Novation LaunchControl XL
Novation LaunchKey MINI - by default you can only move this controller in banks of 8, the
device allows it to be moved track by track
Novation LaunchKey 49 - by default you can only move this controller in banks of 8, the
device allows it to be moved track by track)
LIVID Instruments Base
LIVID Instruments Base II
Touchable 3

hm… tried the LE Version but the APC40 did not follow the Master when chosen as Slave and enabled.

hm… tried the LE Version but the APC40 did not follow the Master when chosen as Slave and enabled.
how to troubleshoot?

You don't say what the Master controller is? It will work with the listed above....

To troubleshoot you'll need to dig into the code... Specifically the Master patchers to the far right of the device...

To troubleshoot you'll need to dig into the code... Specifically the Master patchers to the far right of the device...
Cheers
D


the Master Controller is the Launchpad Pro (listed).

I have been unable to open the device as for Max would crash whenever trying to do so, hence no luck so far…

it might have something to do with APC40 oddities, though I'd reckon it shouldn't…

if there's any more to know, kindly inform me please…

thanks for the reply,
the Master Controller is the Launchpad Pro (listed).
I have been unable to open the device as for Max would crash whenever trying to do so, hence no luck so far…

it might have something to do with APC40 oddities, though I'd reckon it shouldn't…
if there's any more to know, kindly inform me please…

How do i observe the arrows on a Launchpad Pro ?

Hi !
How do i observe the arrows on a Launchpad Pro ?
Thanks !


"call get_control Arrow_Right_Button" and so on.

I think i got it :
"call get_control Arrow_Right_Button" and so on.


Observing session ring offsets in Max?