j-Ambroise Vesac

Is there a way to do 3D sound (14 speakers in a sphere) in Max/Msp.

openal-for-3d-sound-in-maxmsp

In regard to questions like this, it's often best

to have a look at maxobjects.com, typing in key

words you might be searching for - in addition to

doing the same search of the archives of the Max

It would appear that the answer is "no", or that

anyone who's done it has decided to remain mum

about the matter. The relative paucity of umptyspeaker

3d arrays in the real world might also contribute to

In regard to questions like this, it's often best
to have a look at maxobjects.com, typing in key
words you might be searching for - in addition to
doing the same search of the archives of the Max
list.

It would appear that the answer is "no", or that
anyone who's done it has decided to remain mum
about the matter. The relative paucity of umptyspeaker
3d arrays in the real world might also contribute to
a certain lack of critical mass. :-)


Wavefield synthesis, very interesting hint, thanks a lot.

I want to suggest different accoustic space/field and transform/merged them. I thought of using rtconv~.

Spat or ambiosonic object don't seems to have an Elevation factor.

Inside of this changing field, I want to control sound movements in a 3D array with a 3D representation/trigger system.

I want to suggest different accoustic space/field and  transform/merged them. I thought of using rtconv~.

Inside of this changing field, I want to control sound movements in a 3D array with a 3D representation/trigger system.


Ambisonics allow you to control a sound source on the surface of a

sphere, so there are typically 2 angles (like in 3D spherical

coordinates), azimuth and elevation. They don't really lend

themselves to placing sources inside our outside the speaker array

though. Wavefield synthesis in 3D is not feasible in realtime at this

point. It can be done in 2D but requires a good understanding of the

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 10:52 PM, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:

> Wavefield synthesis, very interesting hint, thanks a lot.

> I want to suggest different accoustic space/field and transform/merged them. I thought of using rtconv~.

> Spat or ambiosonic object don't seems to have an Elevation factor.

> Inside of this changing field, I want to control sound movements in a 3D array with a 3D representation/trigger system.

Ambisonics allow you to control a sound source on the surface of a
sphere, so there are typically 2 angles (like in 3D spherical
coordinates), azimuth and elevation.  They don't really lend
themselves to placing sources inside our outside the speaker array
though.  Wavefield synthesis in 3D is not feasible in realtime at this
point.  It can be done in 2D but requires a good understanding of the
technique to get everything right.

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 10:52 PM, j-Ambroise Vesac  wrote:
>
> Wavefield synthesis, very interesting hint, thanks a lot.
>
> I want to suggest different accoustic space/field and  transform/merged them. I thought of using rtconv~.
>
> Spat or ambiosonic object don't seems to have an Elevation factor.
>
> Inside of this changing field, I want to control sound movements in a 3D array with a 3D representation/trigger system.
>
>


That's help me to have a better understanding on both techniques. I thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a periphonic space.

I do believe, however, that you can do 3d with vbap, if that would 

On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:13, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:

> That's help me to have a better understanding on both techniques. I 

> thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a 

I do believe, however, that you can do 3d with vbap, if that would  
work for you.

>
> That's help me to have a better understanding on both techniques. I  
> thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a  
> periphonic space.


> Ambisonics allow you to control a sound source on the surface of a

> sphere, so there are typically 2 angles (like in 3D spherical

> coordinates), azimuth and elevation. They don't really lend

> themselves to placing sources inside our outside the speaker array

Not to blow my own horn, but I address this in a paper I presented at SMC this year:

http://www.smc08.org/images/proceedings/session2_number3_paper32.pdf

It's only a proposal and a work in progress, but if anyone cares to give some feedback I'd be glad to discuss it.

> Ambisonics allow you to control a sound source on the surface of a
> sphere, so there are typically 2 angles (like in 3D spherical
> coordinates), azimuth and elevation.  They don't really lend
> themselves to placing sources inside our outside the speaker array
> though. 

Quick summary: vbap and ambisonic share the property of not encoding 

distance (by default), but in both cases distance cues can be 

simulated using appropriate filter/delay combos. Ambisonics has had 

some proposed extensions to more accurately reconstruct distance 

effects, but I don't believe these have been implemented in any of 

the various Max/MSP externals yet. Reverberation is likewise absent 

from vbap and ambisonics by default, but can be added in a more or 

less ad-hoc manner. In general, vbap is going to give you a slightly 

less 'spatial' and more 'pointillistic' ambience, while ambisonics 

(if properly configured) will grant an expanded 'sweet' listening 

area (especially with the higher order ambisonics). vbap is 

algorithmically simpler, but when using max externals that won't make 

much difference. both vbap and ambisonics depend upon having a 

regularly distributed array of speakers (as equidistant from the 

center point and to each neighbor as possible). both vbap & 

As Wesley stated, WFS will be superior in terms of spatial imaging 

and distance effects, but unless you have hundreds of well-matched 

speakers almost side by side, it's not going to happen; real-time 

moving objects may be extremely CPU intensive and the 3D situation is 

On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:35 AM, mattyo wrote:

> I do believe, however, that you can do 3d with vbap, if that would 

> On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:13, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:

>> That's help me to have a better understanding on both techniques. 

>> I thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a 

Quick summary: vbap and ambisonic share the property of not encoding  
distance (by default), but in both cases distance cues can be  
simulated using appropriate filter/delay combos. Ambisonics has had  
some proposed extensions to more accurately reconstruct distance  
effects, but I don't believe these have been implemented in any of  
the various Max/MSP externals yet. Reverberation is likewise absent  
from vbap and ambisonics by default, but can be added in a more or  
less ad-hoc manner.  In general, vbap is going to give you a slightly  
less 'spatial' and more 'pointillistic' ambience, while ambisonics  
(if properly configured) will grant an expanded 'sweet' listening  
area (especially with the higher order ambisonics). vbap is  
algorithmically simpler, but when using max externals that won't make  
much difference. both vbap and ambisonics depend upon having a  
regularly distributed array of speakers (as equidistant from the  
center point and to each neighbor as possible). both vbap &  
ambisonics can be 2d or 3d.

As Wesley stated, WFS will be superior in terms of spatial imaging  
and distance effects, but unless you have hundreds of well-matched  
speakers almost side by side, it's not going to happen; real-time  
moving objects may be extremely CPU intensive and the 3D situation is  
very complex indeed.

> I do believe, however, that you can do 3d with vbap, if that would  
> work for you.
>
> M
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:13, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:
>
>>
>> That's help me to have a better understanding on both techniques.  
>> I thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a  
>> periphonic space.
>

Quote: j-Ambroise Vesac wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 14:10

---------------------------------------------------- 

> Is there a way to do 3D sound (14 speakers in a sphere) in Max/Msp.

----------------------------------------------------

BTW. There is some source code for an Open AL external for pd on Windows that I found some time ago.

It would need developing ... (not least since it supports only 5 sources and is pd not Max/MSP)

Quote: j-Ambroise Vesac wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 14:10
---------------------------------------------------- 
> Is there a way to do 3D sound (14 speakers in a sphere) in Max/Msp.
>
> Using OpenAL ?
----------------------------------------------------

BTW. There is some source code for an Open AL external for pd  on Windows that I found some time ago. 

It would need developing ... (not least since it supports only 5 sources and is pd not Max/MSP)


OpenAL for 3D sound in max/msp