i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a 

hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like 

"reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control 

IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs 

So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor as 

a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor as 

standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything has 

disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own 

experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?

f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music

> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a 
hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like 
"reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control 
IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs 
greater than 1000... First problem.

So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor as 
a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor as 
standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything has 
disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own 
experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?

f.e
-- 
f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|


osc-vst-reaktor

> i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a 

> hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like 

> "reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control 

> IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs 

> So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor 

> as a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor 

> as standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything 

> has disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own 

> experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?

Yes, I've run into this issue also. The issue with Reaktor not 

supporting OSC when being run as a plugin is not limited to when it is 

running inside vst~. As lame as it might seem, it is true, Reaktor 

doesn't support OSC when using it as a plugin in any host. I've posted 

a message on the NI forums about this but for the most part it seemed 

I can't remember exactly what the 1000 parameters message is about, but 

I don't think it has to do with Max. This is a message I've seen when 

running Reaktor as a stand alone many times. Typically I just hit ok 

when I get this message and as far as I've noticed the ensemble still 

On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:03 AM, f.e wrote:
> i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a 
> hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like 
> "reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control 
> IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs 
> greater than 1000... First problem.
>
> So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor 
> as a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor 
> as standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything 
> has disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own 
> experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?

Yes, I've run into this issue also.  The issue with Reaktor not 
supporting OSC when being run as a plugin is not limited to when it is 
running inside vst~.  As lame as it might seem, it is true, Reaktor 
doesn't support OSC when using it as a plugin in any host.  I've posted 
a message on the NI forums about this but for the most part it seemed 
like I was the only one that cared.

I can't remember exactly what the 1000 parameters message is about, but 
I don't think it has to do with Max.  This is a message I've seen when 
running Reaktor as a stand alone many times.  Typically I just hit ok 
when I get this message and as far as I've noticed the ensemble still 
seems to work fine.

Try this: In reaktor select your instrument, then open the instrument 

properties window, then click on the rightmost tab (upper right corner of 

the instrument properties window), then click on the drop-down menu in the 

lower right corner that says "IDs." Select the option that says "sort and 

compress IDs." Now look at the number under "Max ID in use", it may have 

decreased if there were unused ID #'s between the used ID #'s (sort and 

compress pushes all of the ID#'s together, so that there's no unused ID #'s 

Now double click on the box that says "Max ID," and enter the number that 

appears under "Max ID in use." Now, you can send data to parameter IDs less 

than the number under "Max ID in use," and you know that all of your IDs #'s 

are below the number under "Max ID in use," so therefore you know that you 

can send data to all of the parameter ID#'s that are in use in your project. 

If you add more parameters to your ensemble in Reaktor later, you'll have to 

Lastly, if you want to change which instrument's ID #s are assigned to which 

knob/button/slider/whatever, select "instrument up" or "instrument down" in 

the "IDs" dropdown menu. "Sort and Compress" automatically groups each 

instrument's ID #'s together, so you can't change that, but you can change 

which instrument is first, second, etc. in the numbering order.

I don't know about OSC, but it may say in the PDF manual that comes with 

Reaktor, and if not the Reaktor forum on the NI website is a good place to 

ask, people are very helpful on there. The answer might already be posted 

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_us/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] OSC, vst~ & Reaktor

>> i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a 

>> hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like 

>> "reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control 

>> IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs 

>> So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor as 

>> a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor as 

>> standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything has 

>> disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own 

>> experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?

> Yes, I've run into this issue also. The issue with Reaktor not supporting 

> OSC when being run as a plugin is not limited to when it is running inside 

> vst~. As lame as it might seem, it is true, Reaktor doesn't support OSC 

> when using it as a plugin in any host. I've posted a message on the NI 

> forums about this but for the most part it seemed like I was the only one 

> I can't remember exactly what the 1000 parameters message is about, but I 

> don't think it has to do with Max. This is a message I've seen when 

> running Reaktor as a stand alone many times. Typically I just hit ok when 

> I get this message and as far as I've noticed the ensemble still seems to 

Try this: In reaktor select your instrument, then open the instrument 
properties window, then click on the rightmost tab (upper right corner of 
the instrument properties window), then click on the drop-down menu in the 
lower right corner that says "IDs."  Select the option that says "sort and 
compress IDs."  Now look at the number under "Max ID in use", it may have 
decreased if there were unused ID #'s between the used ID #'s (sort and 
compress pushes all of the ID#'s together, so that there's no unused ID #'s 
in between the used ones).

Now double click on the box that says "Max ID," and enter the number that 
appears under "Max ID in use."  Now, you can send data to parameter IDs less 
than the number under "Max ID in use," and you know that all of your IDs #'s 
are below the number under "Max ID in use," so therefore you know that you 
can send data to all of the parameter ID#'s that are in use in your project. 
If you add more parameters to your ensemble in Reaktor later, you'll have to 
do this process again.

Lastly, if you want to change which instrument's ID #s are assigned to which 
knob/button/slider/whatever, select "instrument up" or "instrument down" in 
the "IDs" dropdown menu.  "Sort and Compress" automatically groups each 
instrument's ID #'s together, so you can't change that, but you can change 
which instrument is first, second, etc. in the numbering order.

I don't know about OSC, but it may say in the PDF manual that comes with 
Reaktor, and if not the Reaktor forum on the NI website is a good place to 
ask, people are very helpful on there.  The answer might already be posted 
somewhere on there...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Watson" 
To: ; 
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] OSC, vst~ & Reaktor

>
> On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:03 AM, f.e wrote:
>> i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a 
>> hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like 
>> "reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control 
>> IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs 
>> greater than 1000... First problem.
>>
>> So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor as 
>> a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor as 
>> standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything has 
>> disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own 
>> experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?
>
> Hello,
>
> Yes, I've run into this issue also.  The issue with Reaktor not supporting 
> OSC when being run as a plugin is not limited to when it is running inside 
> vst~.  As lame as it might seem, it is true, Reaktor doesn't support OSC 
> when using it as a plugin in any host.  I've posted a message on the NI 
> forums about this but for the most part it seemed like I was the only one 
> that cared.
>
> I can't remember exactly what the 1000 parameters message is about, but I 
> don't think it has to do with Max.  This is a message I've seen when 
> running Reaktor as a stand alone many times.  Typically I just hit ok when 
> I get this message and as far as I've noticed the ensemble still seems to 
> work fine.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>


I know this may sound silly, but if you're going to control Reaktor via OSC, why do you need to use it in plugin form?

>If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using 

>the fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit 

>we have on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.

>>I know this may sound silly, but if you're going to control Reaktor 

>>via OSC, why do you need to use it in plugin form?

you might have your reasons (is it called "win" ??) but teh quastion 

makes sense to me, even if i would say it a little differently:

"why don't you use your Reaktor as a plug-in in max?" _ it works 

pretty well, you don't need OSC (or rewire or..) to control it from 

>If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using 
>the fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit 
>we have on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.
>
>
>>I know this may sound silly, but if you're going to control Reaktor 
>>via OSC, why do you need to use it in plugin form?

you might have your reasons (is it called "win" ??) but teh quastion 
makes sense to me, even if i would say it a little differently:

"why don't you use your Reaktor as a plug-in in max?" _ it works 
pretty well, you don't need OSC (or rewire or..) to control it from 
max....

kasper
-- 
  Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

>if you read the beginning of the thread, you'll see that Reaktor 

>assign control's IDs on the fly, sometimes over 1000, which make 

>them *unreachable* from Max when used in a vst~...

>Thanks to Eric, reducing the number of IDs does work.

>But the OSC support problem is still here and i'll move to the NI 

I am not a great expert at Reaktor, but, if you want use it as a vst 

plug-in in max, i still belive you don't need to use OSC, and you 

don't have to care about the ID's it assigns:

simply open your Reaktor ensemble - the one you made and want to 

_clik on the parameter you want to control (it's ctrl-clik on a MAC, 

probably some sort of right-click on win...)

_select the "midi learn" fonction (in reaktor)

_send a midi controller message from max (in the form of [midievent 

xxx yy $1] - xxx being a Control Change number (between 176 -191) yy 

being a controller number (0-127) and $1 being your controller value 

if I am right that's a total possibility of 2032 different controls

if that's not enough, you can probably use the aftertouch (2032 more) 

(208-223) or/and pitchbend (224-239) .......

this way you don't give a s*** about what reaktor assigns

ah, for it to work you have to have the audio ON

>hello kasp,
>
>if you read the beginning of the thread, you'll see that Reaktor 
>assign control's IDs on the fly, sometimes over 1000, which make 
>them *unreachable* from Max when used in a vst~...
>
>Thanks to Eric, reducing the number of IDs does work.
>
>But the OSC support problem is still here and i'll move to the NI 
>forum about this

I am not a great expert at Reaktor, but, if you want use it as a vst 
plug-in in max, i still belive you don't need to use OSC, and you 
don't have to care about the ID's it assigns:

simply open your Reaktor ensemble - the one you made and want to 
control from inside max

_clik on the parameter you want to control (it's ctrl-clik on a MAC, 
probably some sort of right-click on win...)
_select the "midi learn" fonction (in reaktor)
_send a midi controller message from max (in the form of [midievent 
xxx yy $1] - xxx being a Control Change number (between 176 -191) yy 
being a controller number (0-127) and $1 being  your controller value 
- in "midi" that's 0-127

if that's not enough, you can probably use the aftertouch (2032 more) 
(208-223) or/and pitchbend (224-239) .......

not sure why you exspect reaktor VST to accept OSC ... but

VST3 and appropiate VST3 host programs will allow to implement

taking into account what the usual speed of NI updates is,

not sure why you exspect reaktor VST to accept OSC ... but
VST3 and appropiate VST3 host programs will allow to implement
this easily.

taking into account what the usual speed of NI updates is,
they should come up with this "soon"

>if that's not enough, you can probably use the aftertouch (2032 

>more) (208-223) or/and pitchbend (224-239) .......

sorry, poly aftertouch is 160-175, see p.78, in "getting started"

>
>
>if that's not enough, you can probably use the aftertouch (2032 
>more) (208-223) or/and pitchbend (224-239) .......
>

sorry, poly aftertouch is 160-175,  see p.78, in "getting  started"

> If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using the 

> fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit we have 

> on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.

you need to switch to Mac to get a working computer btw... ;-)))

f.e wrote:
> If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using the 
> fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit we have 
> on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.

I am for the drink,
you need to switch to Mac to get a working computer btw... ;-)))

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Quote: f.e wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 08:57

----------------------------------------------------

There have been several threads on this forum about that subject.

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&rid=3579&S=2c0e36c8293311ad00336b122e4d3c9b&th=22199&goto=82372#msg_82433

Afaik there are only two serious alternatives for rewire on mac: 1) soundflower with soundflowerbed or 2) soundflower with an aggregate device. 

I currently have a problem with both approaches on OS 10.4.8:

1) soundflower with sondflowerbed: with soundflowerbed turned on the latency gets bigger over time, about 100 ms per hour. (yes, that means that I have to reset soundflowerbed's buffer every 5 minutes during every live perfomance! cycling, somebody, please!!??)

2) soundflower with aggregate device: after some time the sound gets corrupted, sounds like a there is bitcrusher in the chain. Still not certain about any relation with specific events or actions.

If you're going to try these approaches, please let me know what your findings are.

Quote: f.e wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 08:57
----------------------------------------------------
> If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using the 
> fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit we have 
> on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.
>
> cheers
>
> f.e

There have been several threads on this forum about that subject. 

check this:
https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&rid=3579&S=2c0e36c8293311ad00336b122e4d3c9b&th=22199&goto=82372#msg_82433 

Afaik there are only two serious alternatives for rewire on mac: 1) soundflower with soundflowerbed or 2) soundflower with an aggregate device. 
I currently have a problem with both approaches on OS 10.4.8:
1) soundflower with sondflowerbed: with soundflowerbed turned on the latency gets bigger over time, about 100 ms per hour. (yes, that means that I have to reset soundflowerbed's buffer every 5 minutes during every live perfomance! cycling, somebody, please!!??)
2) soundflower with aggregate device: after some time the sound gets corrupted, sounds like a there is bitcrusher in the chain. Still not certain about any relation with specific events or actions.

Quote: f.e wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 10:03

> Mattijs, i already know these solutions; But they're on Mac.

Ah, I thought you knew virtual audio cable on pc and wanted something similar on mac. Sorry.

Although I work on pc a lot I didn't look for virtual audio drivers in the recent past. Afraid I can't help you there. I'm curious too though..

Quote: f.e wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 10:03
----------------------------------------------------
> Mattijs, i already know these solutions; But they're on Mac.
>
> f.e
>

Jack is now working on Windows thanks to Stephane Letz - not quite 

plug and play, but it's working. Look here:

>Mattijs, i already know these solutions; But they're on Mac.

>>>If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using 

>>>the fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit 

>>>we have on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.

>>There have been several threads on this forum about that subject.

>>Afaik there are only two serious alternatives for rewire on mac: 1) 

>>soundflower with soundflowerbed or 2) soundflower with an aggregate 

>>device. I currently have a problem with both approaches on OS 

>>1) soundflower with sondflowerbed: with soundflowerbed turned on 

>>the latency gets bigger over time, about 100 ms per hour. (yes, 

>>that means that I have to reset soundflowerbed's buffer every 5 

>>minutes during every live perfomance! cycling, somebody, please!!??)

>>2) soundflower with aggregate device: after some time the sound 

>>gets corrupted, sounds like a there is bitcrusher in the chain. 

>>Still not certain about any relation with specific events or 

>>If you're going to try these approaches, please let me know what 

202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 

Jack is now working on Windows thanks to Stephane Letz - not quite 
plug and play, but it's working.  Look here:

At 10:03 AM +0100 2/8/07, f.e wrote:
>Mattijs, i already know these solutions; But they're on Mac.
>
>f.e
>>>If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using 
>>>the fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit 
>>>we have on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>
>>>f.e
>>>
>>
>>There have been several threads on this forum about that subject.
>>check this:
>>https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&rid=3579&S=2c0e36c8293311ad00336b122e4d3c9b&th=22199&goto=82372#msg_82433
>>Afaik there are only two serious alternatives for rewire on mac: 1) 
>>soundflower with soundflowerbed or 2) soundflower with an aggregate 
>>device. I currently have a problem with both approaches on OS 
>>10.4.8:
>>1) soundflower with sondflowerbed: with soundflowerbed turned on 
>>the latency gets bigger over time, about 100 ms per hour. (yes, 
>>that means that I have to reset soundflowerbed's buffer every 5 
>>minutes during every live perfomance! cycling, somebody, please!!??)
>>2) soundflower with aggregate device: after some time the sound 
>>gets corrupted, sounds like a there is bitcrusher in the chain. 
>>Still not certain about any relation with specific events or 
>>actions.
>>
>>If you're going to try these approaches, please let me know what 
>>your findings are.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Mattijs

-- 
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com


> There have been several threads on this forum about that subject. 

Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
> There have been several threads on this forum about that subject. 
>
> check this:

f.e., does your audio interface offer internal loopback? that's how i 

do (flawless but somewhat limited) trans-app streaming...

f.e., does your audio interface offer internal loopback?  that's how i 
do (flawless but somewhat limited) trans-app streaming...

Can we please not have any Mac elitism? I can't stand people imposing their will onto other people. I could come up with reasons why macs are crap but what's the point? I'm mature enough to know it's all about preference and we're here to talk about Max, not Macs.

This is like the 3rd of 4th time you, Stefan, have taken a post and turned it into a "buy a Mac" ad. Cut it out, please.

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 08:30

> you need to switch to Mac to get a working computer btw... ;-)))

Can we please not have any Mac elitism?  I can't stand people imposing their will onto other people.  I could come up with reasons why macs are crap but what's the point? I'm mature enough to know it's all about preference and we're here to talk about Max, not Macs.  

This is like the 3rd of 4th time you, Stefan, have taken a post and turned it into a "buy a Mac" ad.  Cut it out, please. 

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 08:30
----------------------------------------------------
>
> I am for the drink,
> you need to switch to Mac to get a working computer btw... ;-)))
>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


I probably should have sent above in a private message. Oh well. Forgive me Jesus.

Quote: dlurk wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 21:43

> f.e., does your audio interface offer internal loopback? that's how i 

> do (flawless but somewhat limited) trans-app streaming...

Quote: dlurk wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 21:43
----------------------------------------------------
>
> f.e., does your audio interface offer internal loopback?  that's how i 
> do (flawless but somewhat limited) trans-app streaming...
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------

don't miss the post I did about RME cards, they may be the solution you're looking for.

> Quote: dlurk wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 21:43