schedal

I was wondering if there is a good patch repository on the net?

I know about the object and library site where I can find lots of really 

cool objects and components, but what about completed patches?

I'm looking for some simple effects that I can peek under the hood and 

I know about the object and library site where I can find lots of really 
cool objects and components, but what about completed patches?

I'm looking for some simple effects that I can peek under the hood and 
then modify to my needs.

patch-repositories

thats really disappointing, with thousands of people all using max-msp; 

why reinvent the wheel over and over again...?!?!

thats really disappointing, with thousands of people all using max-msp; 
why reinvent the wheel over and over again...?!?!
:/


While looking at other people's patches can be very helpful, too many 

examples can sometimes stifle creative thinking. I'm teaching a class 

in MaxMSP and spend a good deal of time trying to get my students to 

think of objects in an abstract sense, rather than just the examples 

they've seen. For example, consider a synthesizer that comes with 5000 

preset sounds. Most people simply won't bother making their own 

sounds. I think example patches are great touchstones, but I think 

it's much more important for people to develop their own style and 

processes. I generally prefer not to give people fully-realized 

patches because it limits their imagination. I would much rather give 

the germ of the idea, and let them run with it, so that they come up 

I do agree that there should be certain things that are standardized in 

Max. A really decent (no offense intended to anyone) reverb that came 

with Max, much like the omx objects, would be really great. That being 

said, there are often many, many ways to solve a problem in Max, and 

different ones will be appropriate in different contexts. (bearing in 

mind issues such as speed, scaleability, flexibility, elegance, etc.) 

Oftentimes, I've learned more by reinventing the wheel rather than 

using something off-the-shelf, and in building that wheel, I've stuck 

in some square parts where there should have been round ones, and 

gotten some really interesting sounds that set me off on a completely 

different path that I probably wouldn't have thought of outside of that 

context. For instance, try throwing kink~ into the read heads of a 

The one lesson I keep (re)learning in Max is that monolithic solutions 

(e.g. the perfect mixer, multitap delay, etc. that does everything) 

rarely exist because they can't anticipate all the possible ways they 

can be used, and that, for me at least, it's often more interesting to 

put flawed but interesting processes together. My patches are 

constantly changing and reflect my evolving thoughts about how to 

organize processes. While I'm happy to show them to people, I'm 

ultimately writing music and not software, so the documentation is what 

I need, rather than enterprise-level. (though there are many of us who 

are writing software) As an example, Pattr is a really great and 

amazing preset system, but there are still lots of feature requests for 

it because we all use it in slightly different ways. (what should be 

the scope of a preset system?) Similarly, I've seen patches that tried 

to be the universal systems for creating pieces, and, more often than 

not, they lack character. Of course, these are just my opinions.

I think that if we could have a dependency tracker in the build 

dialogue, that might provide a better way of encapsulating patches for 

While looking at other people's patches can be very helpful, too many 
examples can sometimes stifle creative thinking.  I'm teaching a class 
in MaxMSP and spend a good deal of time trying to get my students to 
think of objects in an abstract sense, rather than just the examples 
they've seen.  For example, consider a synthesizer that comes with 5000 
preset sounds.  Most people simply won't bother making their own 
sounds.  I think example patches are great touchstones, but I think 
it's much more important for people to develop their own style and 
processes.  I generally prefer not to give people fully-realized 
patches because it limits their imagination.  I would much rather give 
the germ of the idea, and let them run with it, so that they come up 
with something that is their own.

I do agree that there should be certain things that are standardized in 
Max.  A really decent (no offense intended to anyone) reverb that came 
with Max, much like the omx objects, would be really great.  That being 
said, there are often many, many ways to solve a problem in Max, and 
different ones will be appropriate in different contexts.  (bearing in 
mind issues such as speed, scaleability, flexibility, elegance, etc.)  
Oftentimes, I've learned more by reinventing the wheel rather than 
using something off-the-shelf, and in building that wheel, I've stuck 
in some square parts where there should have been round ones, and 
gotten some really interesting sounds that set me off on a completely 
different path that I probably wouldn't have thought of outside of that 
context.   For instance, try throwing kink~ into the read heads of a 
pitchshifter...

The one lesson I keep (re)learning in Max is that monolithic solutions 
(e.g. the perfect mixer, multitap delay, etc. that does everything) 
rarely exist because they can't anticipate all the possible ways they 
can be used, and that, for me at least, it's often more interesting to 
put flawed but interesting processes together.  My patches are 
constantly changing and reflect my evolving thoughts about how to 
organize processes.  While I'm happy to show them to people, I'm 
ultimately writing music and not software, so the documentation is what 
I need, rather than enterprise-level.  (though there are many of us who 
are writing software)  As an example, Pattr is a really great and 
amazing preset system, but there are still lots of feature requests for 
it because we all use it in slightly different ways.  (what should be 
the scope of a preset system?)  Similarly, I've seen patches that tried 
to be the universal systems for creating pieces, and, more often than 
not, they lack character.  Of course, these are just my opinions.

I think that if we could have a dependency tracker in the build 
dialogue, that might provide a better way of encapsulating patches for 
online distribution.

The whole objective in teaching is to pass on ones mistakes and 

successes onto another; teaching is also about efficiency: how can I 

pass on more information to new generations faster and more efficiently 

If I make all my students constantly build things from scratch, its good 

for the theory, but its bad for any kind of real world application of 

your skills. Not only that, but if I always build things on my own; i 

will continually make the same mistakes, over and over.

Its like teaching an artist to paint with a few lessons, and then 

telling them they can't look at any other artists paintings anymore, 

because they might start copying them and therefore make the same bad 

I am not looking for example because i don't know how to use max, i'm 

looking for examples so I can build a complex architecture system using 

modular components, in a reasonable amount of time. Since I need many 

standard component components, it would seem logical that these already 

exist for me to copy, integrate and modify to fit my architectural 

requirements - but somehow in max/msp land; these do not exist 

Are people paranoid about their work? People seriously need to become 

less possessive about their "creations", or we all suffer. Art doesn't 

While I am no fan of Reason, the software does come with a community 

website with many-many patches to download and examine... th benefit of 

this platform is huge, why would max/msp users be except from such benefits?

The whole objective in teaching is to pass on ones mistakes and 
successes onto another; teaching is also about efficiency: how can I 
pass on more information to new generations faster and more efficiently 
than I had to learn?

If I make all my students constantly build things from scratch, its good 
for the theory, but its bad for any kind of real world application of 
your skills. Not only that, but if I always build things on my own; i 
will continually make the same mistakes, over and over.

Its like teaching an artist to paint with a few lessons, and then 
telling them they can't look at any other artists paintings anymore, 
because they might start copying them and therefore make the same bad 
paintings their peers are making...?????

I am not looking for example because i don't know how to use max, i'm 
looking for examples so I can build a complex architecture system using 
modular components, in a reasonable amount of time. Since I need many 
standard component components, it would seem logical that these already 
exist for me to copy, integrate and modify to fit my architectural 
requirements - but somehow in max/msp land; these do not exist 
publicly... [i am starting to discover].

Are people paranoid about their work? People seriously need to become 
less possessive about their "creations", or we all suffer. Art doesn't 
thrive in a cupboard.

While I am no fan of Reason, the software does come with a community 
website with many-many patches to download and examine... th benefit of 
this platform is huge, why would max/msp users be except from such benefits?


Well, since i'm a max user, it's a subject we have deal with a thousands 

> The whole objective in teaching is to pass on ones mistakes and 

> successes onto another; teaching is also about efficiency: how can I 

> pass on more information to new generations faster and more 

> If I make all my students constantly build things from scratch, its 

> good for the theory, but its bad for any kind of real world 

> application of your skills. Not only that, but if I always build 

> things on my own; i will continually make the same mistakes, over and 

No, because mistakes don't allow anything to work in max. So you always 

have to struggle yourself to get it right, and, meanwhile, your 

knowledge increases drasticaly. In my case, i'm on one of the simpliest 

things to do with max (a polyphonic sample player) since a long time, 

while i've already achieved much more complex engines ! Yes, a few 

example patches would help, but i would have to rewrite them all on my 

> Its like teaching an artist to paint with a few lessons, and then 

> telling them they can't look at any other artists paintings anymore, 

> because they might start copying them and therefore make the same bad 

> paintings their peers are making...?????

Painting is a result. Max is a way to paint.

> I am not looking for example because i don't know how to use max, i'm 

> looking for examples so I can build a complex architecture system 

> using modular components, in a reasonable amount of time. Since I need 

> many standard component components, it would seem logical that these 

> already exist for me to copy, integrate and modify to fit my 

Buy Native Instrument's Reaktor instead, really !

> but somehow in max/msp land; these do not exist publicly... [i am 

> Are people paranoid about their work? People seriously need to become 

> less possessive about their "creations", or we all suffer. Art doesn't 

When i think about all the time given by all the list members for this 

kind of gratification, lord, i swear i could throw you a glass of bear 

(not wine, it's hard to clean off shirts with) just to wake up your mind.

Everybody here share a lot of things without asking money for. Think 

this list is the place where i learned max, without the need of any kind 

of "classical" teaching. Just browse this week's messages, you'll find a 

lot of things : patcher's ideas, externals, abstract solutions... Go to 

maxobjects.com, thanks Mathieu and Ninh for the FREE work, check all 

these objects, abstractions and classes here, for god's sake !!!!!!!!!! 

Made with the free time of teachers, students, artists and much more. 

Well, since i'm a max user, it's a subject we have deal with a thousands 
times

pulse wrote:
> Thanks Peter for your input.
>
> The whole objective in teaching is to pass on ones mistakes and 
> successes onto another; teaching is also about efficiency: how can I 
> pass on more information to new generations faster and more 
> efficiently than I had to learn?
>
> If I make all my students constantly build things from scratch, its 
> good for the theory, but its bad for any kind of real world 
> application of your skills. Not only that, but if I always build 
> things on my own; i will continually make the same mistakes, over and 
> over.
No, because mistakes don't allow anything to work in max. So you always 
have to struggle yourself to get it right, and, meanwhile, your 
knowledge increases drasticaly. In my case, i'm on one of the simpliest 
things to do with max (a polyphonic sample player) since a long time, 
while i've already achieved much more complex engines ! Yes, a few 
example patches would help, but i would have to rewrite them all on my 
own anyway...
>
> Its like teaching an artist to paint with a few lessons, and then 
> telling them they can't look at any other artists paintings anymore, 
> because they might start copying them and therefore make the same bad 
> paintings their peers are making...?????
Painting is a result. Max is a way to paint.
>
> I am not looking for example because i don't know how to use max, i'm 
> looking for examples so I can build a complex architecture system 
> using modular components, in a reasonable amount of time. Since I need 
> many standard component components, it would seem logical that these 
> already exist for me to copy, integrate and modify to fit my 
> architectural requirements - 
Buy Native Instrument's Reaktor instead, really !
> but somehow in max/msp land; these do not exist publicly... [i am 
> starting to discover].
>
> Are people paranoid about their work? People seriously need to become 
> less possessive about their "creations", or we all suffer. Art doesn't 
> thrive in a cupboard.
When i think about all the time given by all the list members for this 
kind of gratification, lord, i swear i could throw you a glass of bear 
(not wine, it's hard to clean off shirts with) just to wake up your mind.
Everybody here share a lot of things without asking money for. Think 
this list is the place where i learned max, without the need of any kind 
of "classical" teaching. Just browse this week's messages, you'll find a 
lot of things : patcher's ideas, externals, abstract solutions... Go to 
maxobjects.com, thanks Mathieu and Ninh for the FREE work, check all 
these objects, abstractions and classes here, for god's sake !!!!!!!!!! 
Made with the free time of teachers, students, artists and much more. 
Stop me i'm gonna kill someone...
>
> While I am no fan of Reason, the software does come with a community 
> website with many-many patches to download and examine... th benefit 
> of this platform is huge, why would max/msp users be except from such 
> benefits?
One more time : go buy Reaktor and you'll be granted to access the 
community library anytime you want.
>


> While I am no fan of Reason, the software does come with a community 

> website with many-many patches to download and examine... th benefit of 

> this platform is huge, why would max/msp users be except from such 

arg! i mean to say "reaktor", no "reason"; sorry 'bout the typo.

> While I am no fan of Reason, the software does come with a community 
> website with many-many patches to download and examine... th benefit of 
> this platform is huge, why would max/msp users be except from such 
> benefits?

arg! i mean to say "reaktor", no "reason"; sorry 'bout the typo.


> One more time : go buy Reaktor and you'll be granted to access the 

please don't misunderstand, i speak from frustration, not anger. i

really love max, not reaktor. i realize there is a lot of resources out

there to building your own patches and excellent externals, this is not

an issue - its something i praise. It's just surprising that patches are

not readily available in any significant form - and I can't see why this

is such a horrible thing to ask, I can't see why "more information" is

> One more time : go buy Reaktor and you'll be granted to access the 
> community library anytime you want.

please don't misunderstand, i speak from frustration, not anger. i
really love max, not reaktor. i realize there is a lot of resources out
there to building your own patches and excellent externals, this is not
an issue - its something i praise. It's just surprising that patches are
not readily available in any significant form - and I can't see why this
is such a horrible thing to ask, I can't see why "more information" is
worse than "less..."

I'm not sure it is that surprising in fact. On the contrary of 

Reaktor library, for example, I think that a lot of patches are built 

for one's particular project. And I'm quite sure some of those patch 

wouldn't have any sense outside of the projects (if they can work at 

all in some cases). There are still some part of patches that can be 

useful in any context, but that's what that is shared on the list. I 

understand it can be frustrating for one's curiosity but I'm sure 

things are better this way, to learn. At least they are for me.

PS: wow. My English is awful on this post. :)

I'm not sure it is that surprising in fact. On the contrary of  
Reaktor library, for example, I think that a lot of patches are built  
for one's particular project. And I'm quite sure some of those patch  
wouldn't have any sense outside of the projects (if they can work at  
all in some cases). There are still some part of patches that can be  
useful in any context, but that's what that is shared on the list. I  
understand it can be frustrating for one's curiosity but I'm sure  
things are better this way, to learn. At least they are for me.

PS: wow. My English is awful on this post. :)


On Mar 17, 2006, at 8:37 AM, pulse wrote:

> not readily available in any significant form

I think you want one thing but are saying something else. There are 

*tons* of patches, objects, abstractions, art, etc out there. It is 

simply de-centralized. There is not one web site to log onto and 

It's out there, you just have to do more digging. And never hesitate 

to drop some one a note on the list. 9 times out of 10 they will 

send you the patch or code. Heck, even cycling74 will send you 

certain bits of source if ask nicely and have a valid reason.

Max is interactive in a variety of ways. It's not just about the UI.

On Mar 17, 2006, at 8:37 AM, pulse wrote:
> It's just surprising that patches are
> not readily available in any significant form

I think you want one thing but are saying something else.  There are  
*tons* of patches, objects, abstractions, art, etc out there.  It is  
simply de-centralized.  There is not one web site to log onto and  
download from.

It's out there, you just have to do more digging.  And never hesitate  
to drop some one a note on the list.  9 times out of 10 they will  
send you the patch or code.  Heck, even cycling74 will send you  
certain bits of source if ask nicely and have a valid reason.

Max is interactive in a variety of ways.  It's not just about the UI.
Hey, put that on the next poster.  :)

-----
Nathan Wolek
nw@nathanwolek.com
http://www.nathanwolek.com


Cort Lippe has several of his pieces posted online at his website (I 

don't have the url handy), such as Music For Flute & Computer, and 

Clarinet and Computer. Those are definitely worth looking at, and have 

some pretty intricate behaviors. Not a lot of comments the deeper you 

Cort Lippe has several of his pieces posted online at his website (I 
don't have the url handy), such as Music For Flute & Computer, and 
Clarinet and Computer.  Those are definitely worth looking at, and have 
some pretty intricate behaviors.  Not a lot of comments the deeper you 
go, so be ready to dive into the code.

If you are interested in sharing patches, and in structring them for re-use, it might be good to check out Jamoma:

If you are interested in sharing patches, and in structring them for re-use, it might be good to check out Jamoma:
   http://jamoma.org/

Yes ! check out Jamona ! it has a very beautifull structure.... very open, easy to use, reuse, mod or whatever you need..... and it's perfect for what you described, making a large system of many components.....

While I agree in principle with Peter McCulloch, I find examples most useful

in my teaching of Max/MSP/Jitter and in my own creative projects. I temper

the potential dependency on these examples by showing in class ways that

they can be modified. It is there that I address issues of generality. I

have not found that examples stifle creativity.

My personal difficulty with the wealth of Max examples and patch sets is

that it becomes difficult to remember or find which ones I thought would be

useful. Reflecting on my own learning of music technology, I owe almost

everything to the generosity of those people who were wise enough to share.

While I agree in principle with Peter McCulloch, I find examples most useful
in my teaching of Max/MSP/Jitter and in my own creative projects.  I temper
the potential dependency on these examples by showing in class ways that
they can be modified.  It is there that I address issues of generality.  I
have not found that examples stifle creativity.

My personal difficulty with the wealth of Max examples and patch sets is
that it becomes difficult to remember or find which ones I thought would be
useful. Reflecting on my own learning of music technology, I owe almost
everything to the generosity of those people who were wise enough to share.

Cheers,
Gary Lee Nelson
TIMARA Department
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson


Btw, we've working on making the new c74 web site better for this 

sort of thing, and hope for it to improve. Please check out the 

resource guide (specifically the section "Max/MSP/Jitter Patches/ 

https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/ResourceGuide/

And if any people have items they would like listed in the resource 

guide, please email them to resourceguide@cycling74.com

Lastly, this mailing list itself is a great archive of patches. 

Simply search on the subject you're looking for and there is often a 

patch solution presented by one or more users.

Btw, we've working on making the new c74 web site better for this  
sort of thing, and hope for it to improve. Please check out the  
resource guide (specifically the section "Max/MSP/Jitter Patches/ 
Applications"):

And if any people have items they would like listed in the resource  
guide, please email them to resourceguide@cycling74.com

Lastly, this mailing list itself is a great archive of patches.  
Simply search on the subject you're looking for and there is often a  
patch solution presented by one or more users.

There is a category in www.maxobjects.com called "patches".

We could add a filter in the search engine to search only for patches.

For the moment, only a few patches have been added by users, but MaxObjects

could be a cool Max patches database too. It's up to you (users) to add your

There is a category in www.maxobjects.com called "patches".
We could add a filter in the search engine to search only for patches.
For the moment, only a few patches have been added by users, but MaxObjects
could be a cool Max patches database too. It's up to you (users) to add your
patches you want to share...

patch repositories?