Jamie McDonald

I've been playing around with the networking tutorials and networking max data etc. and it all works fine. I was wondering though if there is anyway of networking audio data without the use of the jit.net.send externals etc as i do not own jitter.

Is there a way of transmitting msp data using just max/msp. This would be very usful to me if anyone has any ideas.

Hi all.
I've been playing around with the networking tutorials and networking max data etc. and it all works fine. I was wondering though if there is anyway of networking audio data without the use of the jit.net.send externals etc as i do not own jitter. 

sending-audio-over-networks

Does anyone have a small example of sending audio over a network with

> olaf matthew's netsend~/netreceive~ ...

Does anyone have a small example of sending audio over a network with
jit.net.send and jit.net.recv?

>
> olaf matthew's netsend~/netreceive~ ...

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

there is one called audio-over-networkin the jitter in examples/ 

Am 17.02.2007 um 18:53 schrieb Gary Lee Nelson:

> Does anyone have a small example of sending audio over a network with

>> olaf matthew's netsend~/netreceive~ ...

there is one called audio-over-networkin the jitter in examples/ 
jitter-examples/audio

> Does anyone have a small example of sending audio over a network with
> jit.net.send and jit.net.recv?
>
>
> On 2/17/07 10:47 AM, "James"  wrote:
>
>>
>> olaf matthew's netsend~/netreceive~ ...
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>


refresh my memory, but isn't the sound quality usually pretty compromised when streaming like this, or, is it full quality?

Does this work for TCP? could I connect with a friend over the internet and jam?? man that would rock!

Does this work for TCP? could I connect with a friend over the internet and jam??  man that would rock!

I found netsend and netreceive but not netsend~ etc. Where are they

I found netsend and netreceive but not netsend~ etc.  Where are they
located?

I am also interested in this question. Specifically, I will be using a

computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.

My goal is a render farm that includes SuperCollider as well as MSP with all

of the audio collected on one machine for recording.

As soon as I can get jit.send/receive to work on my second machine (see

earlier post), I will be able to run some benchmarks.

> refresh my memory, but isn't the sound quality usually pretty compromised when

> streaming like this, or, is it full quality?

I am also interested in this question.  Specifically, I will be using a
computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.
My goal is a render farm that includes SuperCollider as well as MSP with all
of the audio collected on one machine for recording.

As soon as I can get jit.send/receive to work on my second machine (see
earlier post), I will be able to run some benchmarks.

>
> refresh my memory, but isn't the sound quality usually pretty compromised when
> streaming like this, or, is it full quality?

looks like olaf took netsend~ down... I'm guessing it's probably not stable. The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that's probably the case.

although I haven't tried it, i was looking at plasq's wormhole which does kind of the same thing. It's a vst though.

although I haven't tried it, i was looking at plasq's wormhole which does kind of the same thing.  It's a vst though.

I just did a benchmark using the audio-over-network example from Jitter

Example. I got the patch going on two machines and got quit unacceptable

glitches with just one audio stream. The latency rose to 7-9 ms. I tested

on an airport network that reaches the outside world via road runner. I

don't know enough about network traffic to know if my signals are going to

the moon and back to pass between two machines that are a foot apart.

I wasn't able to a setting on my network control panel that would get them

chatting that way. I'll keep trying on that one.

I see a firewire option in my network control panel. I wonder if anyone has

tried that. For my current projects, I don't need to jam with friends

On 2/17/07 2:13 PM, "Gary Lee Nelson" wrote:

> I am also interested in this question. Specifically, I will be using a

> computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.

> My goal is a render farm that includes SuperCollider as well as MSP with all

> of the audio collected on one machine for recording.

> As soon as I can get jit.send/receive to work on my second machine (see

> earlier post), I will be able to run some benchmarks.

>> refresh my memory, but isn't the sound quality usually pretty compromised

>> streaming like this, or, is it full quality?

I just did a benchmark using the audio-over-network example from Jitter
Example.  I got the patch going on two machines and got quit unacceptable
glitches with just one audio stream.  The latency rose to 7-9 ms.  I tested
on an airport network that reaches the outside world via road runner.  I
don't know enough about network traffic to know if my signals are going to
the moon and back to pass between two machines that are a foot apart.

I wasn't able to a setting on my network control panel that would get them
chatting that way.  I'll keep trying on that one.

I see a firewire option in my network control panel.  I wonder if anyone has
tried that.  For my current projects, I don't need to jam with friends
around the world but it would be lovely.

On 2/17/07 2:13 PM, "Gary Lee Nelson"  wrote:

> I am also interested in this question.  Specifically, I will be using a
> computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.
> My goal is a render farm that includes SuperCollider as well as MSP with all
> of the audio collected on one machine for recording.
>
> As soon as I can get jit.send/receive to work on my second machine (see
> earlier post), I will be able to run some benchmarks.
>
>
> On 2/17/07 1:51 PM, "James"  wrote:
>
>>
>> refresh my memory, but isn't the sound quality usually pretty compromised
>> when
>> streaming like this, or, is it full quality?
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>

Quote: Gary Lee Nelson wrote on Sat, 17 February 2007 13:01

----------------------------------------------------

> > I am also interested in this question. Specifically, I will be using a

> > computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.

shoutcast~ and oggcast~ do it in compression, but can be unstable and latency is a problem.

btw i think to keep the network inside, use your local ip's.

Quote: Gary Lee Nelson wrote on Sat, 17 February 2007 13:01
----------------------------------------------------

> > I am also interested in this question.  Specifically, I will be using a
> > computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.
>
----------------------------------------------------

btw i think to keep the network inside, use your local ip's.


> looks like olaf took netsend~ down... I'm guessing it's probably not stable. The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that's probably the case.

But I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy! Rather unstable, so to 

say. Maybe in a few month (years?) there will be a better version, but 

It's really tricky to optimise these kind of externals to work in all 

situations. WLAN networks require other optimisations than wired 

networks, UPD is different from TCP and so on.

One thing to keep in mind is clock skew. Since two computers never run 

perfectly at the same samplerate (even if you set both to 44.1kHz, one 

is probably 44.099999 kHz and the other one 44.1001 kHz) buffers will 

run empty or overflow after a fairly short amount of time. In the 

current version the externals don't do any magic to overcome this, 

future version could, but that's a whole big research project that would 

James wrote:
> looks like olaf took netsend~ down... I'm guessing it's probably not stable. The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that's probably the case.

They are here: http://www.nullmedium.de/dev/netsend~/

But I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy! Rather unstable, so to 
say. Maybe in a few month (years?) there will be a better version, but 
for now that's working even worse...
It's really tricky to optimise these kind of externals to work in all 
situations. WLAN networks require other optimisations than wired 
networks, UPD is different from TCP and so on.

One thing to keep in mind is clock skew. Since two computers never run 
perfectly at the same samplerate (even if you set both to 44.1kHz, one 
is probably 44.099999 kHz and the other one 44.1001 kHz) buffers will 
run empty or overflow after a fairly short amount of time. In the 
current version the externals don't do any magic to overcome this, 
future version could, but that's a whole big research project that would 
need time...

Thanks for the update. This is very useful information. I am going to put

this part of my project on hold for a while.

I hope I speak for the list in saying that we appreciate the work you are

doing and all of the wonderful tools you've given us in the past.

On 2/17/07 4:25 PM, "Olaf Matthes" wrote:

>> looks like olaf took netsend~ down... I'm guessing it's probably not stable.

>> The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that's probably the case.

> But I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy! Rather unstable, so to

> say. Maybe in a few month (years?) there will be a better version, but

> It's really tricky to optimise these kind of externals to work in all

> situations. WLAN networks require other optimisations than wired

> networks, UPD is different from TCP and so on.

> One thing to keep in mind is clock skew. Since two computers never run

> perfectly at the same samplerate (even if you set both to 44.1kHz, one

> is probably 44.099999 kHz and the other one 44.1001 kHz) buffers will

> run empty or overflow after a fairly short amount of time. In the

> current version the externals don't do any magic to overcome this,

> future version could, but that's a whole big research project that would

Thanks for the update.  This is very useful information.  I am going to put
this part of my project on hold for a while.

I hope I speak for the list in saying that we appreciate the work you are
doing and all of the wonderful tools you've given us in the past.

On 2/17/07 4:25 PM, "Olaf Matthes"  wrote:

> James wrote:
>> looks like olaf took netsend~ down... I'm guessing it's probably not stable.
>> The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that's probably the case.
>
> They are here: http://www.nullmedium.de/dev/netsend~/
>
> But I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy! Rather unstable, so to
> say. Maybe in a few month (years?) there will be a better version, but
> for now that's working even worse...
> It's really tricky to optimise these kind of externals to work in all
> situations. WLAN networks require other optimisations than wired
> networks, UPD is different from TCP and so on.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is clock skew. Since two computers never run
> perfectly at the same samplerate (even if you set both to 44.1kHz, one
> is probably 44.099999 kHz and the other one 44.1001 kHz) buffers will
> run empty or overflow after a fairly short amount of time. In the
> current version the externals don't do any magic to overcome this,
> future version could, but that's a whole big research project that would
> need time...
>
> Olaf


> Does this work for TCP? could I connect with a friend over the

> internet and jam?? man that would rock!

For jamming over the internet I used successfully Ninjam. But because 

you have to compress the audio in this case, it will eat a lot of CPU. I 

ended up using my PC for Ninjam and jammed with Max on the Powerbook...

Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> Does this work for TCP? could I connect with a friend over the
> internet and jam??  man that would rock!

For jamming over the internet I used successfully Ninjam. But because 
you have to compress the audio in this case, it will eat a lot of CPU. I 
ended up using my PC for Ninjam and jammed with Max on the Powerbook...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a play around. My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the jit.net.send sitter objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm sure that this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes in at May, Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal Tournement 3 and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).

Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully recieved though so keep 'em coming.

I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not

entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.

> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a play around.

> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the jit.net.send sitter

> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm sure that

> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes in at May,

> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal Tournement 3

> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).

> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully recieved though

I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv.  Not
entirely satisfactory.  Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.

>
> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a play around.
> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the jit.net.send sitter
> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm sure that
> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes in at May,
> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal Tournement 3
> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>
> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully recieved though
> so keep 'em coming.
> --
> MaccA

used a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from 

it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind 

compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.

Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes... 

Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe 

On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not

> entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest 

>> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a 

>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the 

>> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm 

>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment 

>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal 

>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).

>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully 

FWIW - for the anyware event ( http://share.dj/events/anyware/ ) we  
used a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from  
various locations.

it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind  
compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.

My PD patch and explanation : http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/ 
projects/anyware.html

Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes...  
with Max

Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe  
even interesting.

> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv.  Not
> entirely satisfactory.  Lots of dropped samples with the simplest  
> patch.
>
>
> On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, "Macca"  wrote:
>
>>
>> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a  
>> play around.
>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the  
>> jit.net.send sitter
>> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm  
>> sure that
>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment  
>> comes in at May,
>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal  
>> Tournement 3
>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>>
>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully  
>> recieved though
>> so keep 'em coming.
>> --
>> MaccA
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>

nSLAM and the xjimmies have been fully ported to max. you can get them here:

the nSLAM extras do include standalone example apps of an audio 

> a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from various 

> it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind 

> compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.

http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/projects/anyware.html

> Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes... 

> Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe even 

> On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

>> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not

>> entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.

>>> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a 

>>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the 

>>> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm 

>>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes 

>>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal 

>>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).

>>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully 

the nSLAM extras do include standalone example apps of an audio 
caster/player over the network.

vade wrote:
> FWIW - for the anyware event ( http://share.dj/events/anyware/ ) we used 
> a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from various 
> locations.
>
> it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind 
> compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.
>
> My PD patch and explanation 
> : http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/projects/anyware.html
>
> Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes... 
> with Max
>
> Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe even 
> interesting.
>
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>
>> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv.  Not
>> entirely satisfactory.  Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.
>>
>>
>> On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, "Macca"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a 
>>> play around.
>>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the 
>>> jit.net.send sitter
>>> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm 
>>> sure that
>>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes 
>>> in at May,
>>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal 
>>> Tournement 3
>>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>>>
>>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully 
>>> recieved though
>>> so keep 'em coming.
>>> --
>>> MaccA
>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com 
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Gary Lee Nelson
>> Oberlin College
>> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>>
>>
>> maxmsp@cycling74.com 
>
> *v a d e //*
>
> *www.vade.info*
> *abstrakt.vade.info*
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.

On 2/20/07 2:01 AM, "Jean-Michel Dumas" wrote:

> nSLAM and the xjimmies have been fully ported to max. you can get them here:

> the nSLAM extras do include standalone example apps of an audio

>> a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from various

>> it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind

>> compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.

>> Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes...

>> Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe even

>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

>>> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not

>>> entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.

>>>> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a

>>>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the

>>>> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm

>>>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes

On 2/20/07 2:01 AM, "Jean-Michel Dumas"  wrote:

> nSLAM and the xjimmies have been fully ported to max. you can get them here:
>
> http://tot.sat.qc.ca/eng/nslam.html
>
> the nSLAM extras do include standalone example apps of an audio
> caster/player over the network.
>
> cheers
>
> jm
>
> vade wrote:
>> FWIW - for the anyware event ( http://share.dj/events/anyware/ ) we used
>> a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from various
>> locations.
>>
>> it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind
>> compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.
>>
>> My PD patch and explanation
>> : http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/projects/anyware.html
>>
>> Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes...
>> with Max
>>
>> Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe even
>> interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>>
>>> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv.  Not
>>> entirely satisfactory.  Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, "Macca"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I shall try out Olaf's externals (cheers for the link) and have a
>>>> play around.
>>>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the
>>>> jit.net.send sitter
>>>> objects as in the 'networking max' tutorials on the home page. I'm
>>>> sure that
>>>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes
>>>> in at May,
>>>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list...Right under Unreal
>>>> Tournement 3
>>>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>>>>
>>>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully
>>>> recieved though
>>>> so keep 'em coming.
>>>> --
>>>> MaccA
>>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Gary Lee Nelson
>>> Oberlin College
>>> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>>>
>>>
>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com 
>>
>> *v a d e //*
>>
>> *www.vade.info*
>> *abstrakt.vade.info*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>

>The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.

>The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.
>

kasper
-- 
  Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in

nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.

On 2/20/07 6:38 AM, "Kasper T Toeplitz" wrote:

>> The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.

Perhaps we are looking at different things.  The objects I find in
nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.
They are indeed OSX but PD.

On 2/20/07 6:38 AM, "Kasper T Toeplitz"  wrote:

>> The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.
>>
>
> just downloaded them - osX, and works
>
> best
>
> kasper

>Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in

>nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.

Sending Audio Over Networks