schedal

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=eRlhKaxcKpA&eurl=http%

 3A//www.popmodernism.org/scrambledhackz/%3Fc%3D4&iurl=http%3 A//static16.youtube.com/vi/eRlhKaxcKpA/2.jpg

Application that links the sound from one medium to the spectrum 

analysis of another; recall any sample in time as a 3D vector in time.

Similar techniques were discussed at a cycling lecture given in 

Switzerland in 2005 by Puckett, so this may be of interest to folks here.

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=eRlhKaxcKpA&eurl=http% 3A//www.popmodernism.org/scrambledhackz/%3Fc%3D4&iurl=http%3 A//static16.youtube.com/vi/eRlhKaxcKpA/2.jpg

Application that links the sound from one medium to the spectrum 
analysis of another; recall any sample in time as a 3D vector in time.

Similar techniques were discussed at a cycling lecture given in 
Switzerland in 2005 by Puckett, so this may be of interest to folks here.
;)

very-interesting-video-concerning-fft-spectrum-player

The principle employed is very similar to what was used in the 

European project Flying Cities, in which I was involved in 2003: Only 

in this case the audio analysis and mapping was used to drive the 3D 

animation of the waxing and waning of virtual space cities.

Check out the Flying Cities website at www.flyingcities.net.

The principle employed is very similar to what was used in the  
European project Flying Cities, in which I was involved in 2003: Only  
in this case the audio analysis and mapping was used to drive the 3D  
animation of the waxing and waning of virtual space cities.

  Check out the Flying Cities website at www.flyingcities.net.

On the audio side, there's a more inticate analysis and synthesis of

http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~b.sturm/sand/VLDCMCaR/VLDCMCaR.html

On the audio side, there's a more inticate analysis and synthesis of
the sound from samples at
 http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~b.sturm/sand/VLDCMCaR/VLDCMCaR.html .

I visited the scrambledkackz site, that is pretty cool stuff.

I am curious to know how would one implement this is in Max.

Obviously the audio input would have to be loaded, analyzed,

and saved. Is there an external that allows you to save FFT

data to a file? What would be the best way to access this 

potentially large data set: load it in a coll, or some DB?

If it were in a DB, what could I use to access it it?

I visited the scrambledkackz site, that is pretty cool stuff.
I am curious to know how would one implement this is in Max.
Obviously the audio input would have to be loaded, analyzed,
and saved. Is there an external that allows you to save FFT
data to a file? What would be the best way to access this 
potentially large data set: load it in a coll, or some DB?
If it were in a DB, what could I use to access it it?

Icidentaly there is an external out there called bonk~ ( by Puckette)

that does a similar thing. It allows you to trigger a sound with 

the spectrum of another sound. But in this case one would need to 

be able to handle a massive data set. I think bonk~ only uses RAM

Icidentaly there is an external out there called bonk~ ( by Puckette)
that does a similar thing. It allows you to trigger a sound with 
the spectrum of another sound. But in this case one would need to 
be able to handle a massive data set. I think bonk~ only uses RAM
to store FFT data.

Jitter is very good for this sort of thing.

http://scoop.cycling74.com/story/2006/2/6/114353/4118

for an idea of how this might be done. Depending on how long your 

sample is, you may need a pretty large matrix. You can then save the 

matrix as a jitter binary file using the write message.

Jitter is very good for this sort of thing.
Check out Jitter Recipe 07:FFTCollector
http://scoop.cycling74.com/story/2006/2/6/114353/4118

for an idea of how this might be done.  Depending on how long your 
sample is, you may need a pretty large matrix.  You can then save the 
matrix as a jitter binary file using the write message.

The problem is, I do not have jitter. Another problem

is that I may be constrained by how much RAM I have.

What are some alternates methods to doing this Max/MSP?

I would need to redirect fft~ output to a file/db. What 

kind of data does fft~ output? What format is this in?

If no RAM were to be used, I would need to manage data 

storage/retrieval either to a flat file or a DB. Is there

The problem is, I do not have jitter. Another problem
is that I may be constrained by how much RAM I have.
What are some alternates methods to doing this Max/MSP?
I would need to redirect fft~ output to a file/db. What 
kind of data does fft~ output? What format is this in?
If no RAM were to be used, I would need to manage data 
storage/retrieval either to a flat file or a DB. Is there
any support for that in Max?

I can see from fft~ help that it outputs and audio signal

called real output and imaginary output. What can I use

to convert this data into something I can save? I want to 

later be able to compare an incoming FFT~ data point with 

I can see from fft~ help that it outputs and audio signal
called real output and imaginary output. What can I use
to convert this data into something I can save? I want to 
later be able to compare an incoming FFT~ data point with 
a saved one. Any ideas?

> I can see from fft~ help that it outputs and audio signal

> called real output and imaginary output. What can I use

> to convert this data into something I can save? I want to 

> later be able to compare an incoming FFT~ data point with 

sfrecord~, record~, peek~ into a buffer~ and save...

apalomba@austin.rr.com wrote:
> I can see from fft~ help that it outputs and audio signal
> called real output and imaginary output. What can I use
> to convert this data into something I can save? I want to 
> later be able to compare an incoming FFT~ data point with 
> a saved one. Any ideas?

  [][]  [][][]  [][]  [][][]
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

         Stefan Tiedje
         Klanggestalter
     Electronic Composition
               &
         Improvisation

            /~~~~~
     \   /|() ()|
     ))))) )|  |  |( \
     ///     _/)/ )))))
             ___/   ///

-------------------------x----
--_____-----------|-----------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()----
-- _|_)----|-----()-----------
----------()------------x-----

14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt,
94320 Thiais, France
Phone at CCMIX +33-1-57 42 91 09


> What kind of data does fft~ output? What format is this in?

You can save it as a sound file, but I guess you want to make an 

interpretation of an analysis and store that, and thats up to you.

I'd like to have fiddle~/bonk~ versions for use inside a pfft~, does 

> If no RAM were to be used, I would need to manage data

> storage/retrieval either to a flat file or a DB. Is there any support

There is a mysql external should be listed on Maxobjects.

apalomba@austin.rr.com wrote:
> What kind of data does fft~ output? What format is this in?

You can save it as a sound file, but I guess you want to make an 
interpretation of an analysis and store that, and thats up to you.

I'd like to have fiddle~/bonk~ versions for use inside a pfft~, does 
somebody tried that already?

> If no RAM were to be used, I would need to manage data
> storage/retrieval either to a flat file or a DB. Is there any support
> for that in Max?

On Mar 28, 2006, at 2:03 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>> I can see from fft~ help that it outputs and audio signal

>> called real output and imaginary output. What can I use

>> to convert this data into something I can save? I want to later be 

>> able to compare an incoming FFT~ data point with a saved one. Any 

> sfrecord~, record~, peek~ into a buffer~ and save...

FWIW, in this case, be sure to write the saved FFT frame sound file 

as float32 data to adequately store the spectrum. The default 16 bit 

integer representation of soundfiles isn't enough to store without loss.

> apalomba@austin.rr.com wrote:
>> I can see from fft~ help that it outputs and audio signal
>> called real output and imaginary output. What can I use
>> to convert this data into something I can save? I want to later be  
>> able to compare an incoming FFT~ data point with a saved one. Any  
>> ideas?
>
> sfrecord~, record~, peek~ into a buffer~ and save...

FWIW, in this case, be sure to write the saved FFT frame sound file  
as float32 data to adequately store the spectrum.  The default 16 bit  
integer representation of soundfiles isn't enough to store without loss.

Do I have to go through sfrecord to do this? I was 

hoping to take the real output from fft~ and save it 

directly to disk. Using buffer~ would require me to

allocate a buffer that is the size of the output file. 

If the sound file I am processing is 5 minutes long 

that is a huge buffer (unless I write out chunks at 

a time). All I really need to do is write each FFT 

vaule out to disk. That way I do not have to remove 

a sound file header either. Is there a "fileout" object?

Another question I have is, what is the actual output 

of FFT~? If my window size is 512, I should get 512 

floating point values representing the spectral content.

Yes? I could then process this file more off line. Perhaps

order the FFT windows to make it easier to search.

Do I have to go through sfrecord to do this? I was 
hoping to take the real output from fft~ and save it 
directly to disk. Using buffer~ would require me to
allocate a buffer that is the size of the output file. 
If the sound file I am processing is 5 minutes long 
that is a huge buffer (unless I write out chunks at 
a time). All I really need to do is write each FFT 
vaule out to disk. That way I do not have to remove 
a sound file header either. Is there a "fileout" object?

Another question I have is, what is the actual output 
of FFT~? If my window size is 512, I should get 512 
floating point values representing the spectral content.
Yes? I could then process this file more off line. Perhaps
order the FFT windows to make it easier to search.

> Do I have to go through sfrecord to do this? I was 

> hoping to take the real output from fft~ and save it 

Thats what sfrecord~ is doing. But you need to know exactly what you're 

> allocate a buffer that is the size of the output file. 

> If the sound file I am processing is 5 minutes long 

> that is a huge buffer (unless I write out chunks at 

Nowadays its not huge, its big maybe, but you could easily manage more 

than that if you give your computer enough ram.

> All I really need to do is write each FFT 

> vaule out to disk. That way I do not have to remove 

> a sound file header either. Is there a "fileout" object?

If you read in a soundfile, you don't need to worry about headers.

> Another question I have is, what is the actual output 

> of FFT~? If my window size is 512, I should get 512 

> floating point values representing the spectral content.

> Yes? I could then process this file more off line. Perhaps

> order the FFT windows to make it easier to search.

You should look into pfft~ which does all the windowing stuff for you 

and gets rid of the duplicated bins (which do not carry additional 

And consider using Java with mxj~ within pfft~.

Its tough to get into that stuff, but its worth it...

apalomba@austin.rr.com wrote:
> Do I have to go through sfrecord to do this? I was 
> hoping to take the real output from fft~ and save it 
> directly to disk. 

Thats what sfrecord~ is doing. But you need to know exactly what you're 
doing to not scramble the bins...

> Using buffer~ would require me to
> allocate a buffer that is the size of the output file. 
> If the sound file I am processing is 5 minutes long 
> that is a huge buffer (unless I write out chunks at 
> a time).

Nowadays its not huge, its big maybe, but you could easily manage more 
than that if you give your computer enough ram.

> All I really need to do is write each FFT 
> vaule out to disk. That way I do not have to remove 
> a sound file header either. Is there a "fileout" object?

> Another question I have is, what is the actual output 
> of FFT~? If my window size is 512, I should get 512 
> floating point values representing the spectral content.
> Yes? I could then process this file more off line. Perhaps
> order the FFT windows to make it easier to search.

You should look into pfft~ which does all the windowing stuff for you 
and gets rid of the duplicated bins (which do not carry additional 
information, but need space)
And consider using Java with mxj~ within pfft~.
Its tough to get into that stuff, but its worth it...

Thanks for your feedback Stefan. I know Sfrecord~ saves things

to disk, I guess I am not used to thinking that sfrecord~ could 

handle FFT data. I will give pfft~ a look as well.

Ultimately though, for this to work, I will need to be able to 

1. Process source soundfile and save FFT data.

2. Load source FFT data, run FFT on incoming signal

3. Search source FFTs for closest matching source FFT

I could load the FFT file in to buffer~ and use index~ to

access it. Searching would be linear which might be a problem.

It would be cool to post process the FFT sound file 

so that the FFT windows were ordered, that way one could do a binary 

Thanks for your feedback Stefan. I know Sfrecord~ saves things
to disk, I guess I am not used to thinking that sfrecord~ could 
handle FFT data. I will give pfft~ a look as well.

Ultimately though, for this to work, I will need to be able to 
do the following...

1. Process source soundfile and save FFT data.
2. Load source FFT data, run FFT on incoming signal
3. Search source FFTs for closest matching source FFT

I could load the FFT file in to buffer~ and use index~ to
access it. Searching would be linear which might be a problem.
It would be cool to post process the FFT sound file 
so that the FFT windows were ordered, that way one could do a binary 
search.

Thanks for your advice, but again I do not have jitter.

When I save enough money to buy it I will give your 

idea a try. Until then I will have to do this with 

I want to be able to compare one FFT frame with another

and find the closest match. That means that I may 

have to come up with some clever way to compare frames.

Maybe find some kind of equation that will take a frame 

and compute a value that I could then compare.

Thanks for your advice, but again I do not have jitter.
When I save enough money to buy it I will give your 
idea a try. Until then I will have to do this with 
max/msp alone. 

I want to be able to compare one FFT frame with another
and find the closest match. That means that I may 
have to come up with some clever way to compare frames.
Maybe find some kind of equation that will take a frame 
and compute a value that I could then compare.

http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/temps-reel/ftm/index.html

Just use FTM for that :
http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/temps-reel/ftm/index.html


I have seen FTM before but have not had much time to delve in

to it. Could you give me some pointers on what parts of FTM

I have seen FTM before but have not had much time to delve in
to it. Could you give me some pointers on what parts of FTM
I should look at?

did somebody went deeper in that project?

i seen the video too, read about the concept, had a look on jitter example.. so i understand the concept, but don't really sucess in patching the idea..

if somebody have help to give, info or patches ..it will be great

Hello,
did somebody went deeper in that project?
i seen the video too, read about the concept, had a look on jitter example.. so i understand the concept, but don't really sucess in patching the idea..
if somebody have help to give, info or patches ..it will be great

http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~b.sturm/research.html

It is still on me list of things to evaluate, 

Date: Thursday, September 6, 2007 9:52 am

Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Spectral Recontextualization (was very 

> did somebody went deeper in that project?

> i seen the video too, read about the concept, had a look on jitter 

> example.. so i understand the concept, but don't really sucess in 

> if somebody have help to give, info or patches ..it will be great

Check out MATConcat...
http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~b.sturm/research.html

It is still on me list of things to evaluate, 
but it looks promising. 

----- Original Message -----
From: freeka 
Date: Thursday, September 6, 2007 9:52 am
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Spectral Recontextualization (was very 
interesting video...)

>
> Hello,
> did somebody went deeper in that project?
> i seen the video too, read about the concept, had a look on jitter 
> example.. so i understand the concept, but don't really sucess in 
> patching the idea..
> if somebody have help to give, info or patches ..it will be great
>
> thanks
>
> freeka
>


Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:07

----------------------------------------------------

> directly to disk. Using buffer~ would require me to

> a time). All I really need to do is write each FFT 

all you have to do? :) for 5 minutes stereo, thats 52,920,000

numbers - you will need thousands of coll objects to store that data.

for mono "fft data" its a nice way to simply write a stereo file from within pfft, each signal in a channel. and if you have enough RAM in your hardware, buffer~ should be the easiest way.

dont forget that you have have to find a way of recording triggered by a signal, because you have to start recording when a new window begins. (which is why i suggested pfft above.)

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:07
----------------------------------------------------
> Do I have to go through sfrecord to do this? I was 
> hoping to take the real output from fft~ and save it 
> directly to disk. Using buffer~ would require me to
> allocate a buffer that is the size of the output file. 
> If the sound file I am processing is 5 minutes long 
> that is a huge buffer (unless I write out chunks at 
> a time). All I really need to do is write each FFT 
> vaule out to disk.

all you have to do? :) for 5 minutes stereo, thats 52,920,000
numbers - you will need thousands of coll objects to store that data.

dont forget that you have have to find a way of recording triggered by a signal, because you have to start recording when a new window begins. (which is why i suggested pfft above.)


Quote: freeka wrote on Fri, 07 September 2007 01:51

> any example patches using or not jitter??

Quote: freeka wrote on Fri, 07 September 2007 01:51
----------------------------------------------------
> thanks!!
>
> any example patches using or not jitter??
>
>
> f
----------------------------------------------------


very interesting video concerning FFT spectrum player