Drsbaitso

I posted back about this a while back and my example/explanation of the problem wasn't quite correct and failed to take notice. What I have found, and should be addressed, is that, in my own tests, approximately 300-400 vst plugins for windows out of about 800 I have do not work correctly with the vst~ object in max/msp.

What is happening is one of two things. In the first, less volitile situation, the Max scheduler is completely frozen. In the second scenario merely loading the program causes max to freeze, and, the task manager is required to close it down, if you can manage to open it.

So I made a small patch and included a few plugins, one which works, and one which doesn't. Please, try it out and tell me what you think.

http://bine.aporre.com/vst_scheduler_interface.zip

So, you load the first plugin, all is fine. Load the 2nd one, and the scheduler craps out. In regards to the 2nd plugin, like I said, I have tested about 800 plugins and about half of them suffer from this. A few of my plugin programming friends said that the problem was VSTGUI. I notice this kind of behavior in Cubase and such, but, the main difference between these 2 applications is that, in Cubase, it'll still keep the timing and midi events won't be frozen while the mouse button is down! Graphical updates will cease, but the timeline still goes forward and you can hear the musical information you've put in. Doing the same in max/msp completely freezes everything, so if you had some chords going into this Vst~ object from say, an external midi source, they wouldn't be heard until AFTER you released the mouse button, meaning, well, it's bad :/

I posted back about this a while back and my example/explanation of the problem wasn't quite correct and failed to take notice.  What I have found, and should be addressed, is that, in my own tests, approximately 300-400 vst plugins for windows out of about 800 I have do not work correctly with the vst~ object in max/msp.

What is happening is one of two things.  In the first, less volitile situation, the Max scheduler is completely frozen.  In the second scenario merely loading the program causes max to freeze, and, the task manager is required to close it down, if you can manage to open it.  

So I made a small patch and included a few plugins, one which works, and one which doesn't.  Please, try it out and tell me what you think.

--=--=------=--=------=--=----
Here is the patch:  http://bine.aporre.com/vst_scheduler_interface.zip
--=--=------=--=------=--=----

So, you load the first plugin, all is fine. Load the 2nd one, and the scheduler craps out.  In regards to the 2nd plugin, like I said, I have tested about 800 plugins and about half of them suffer from this.  A few of my plugin programming friends said that the problem was VSTGUI.  I notice this kind of behavior in Cubase and such, but, the main difference between these 2 applications is that, in Cubase, it'll still keep the timing and midi events won't be frozen while the mouse button is down! Graphical updates will cease, but the timeline still goes forward and you can hear the musical information you've put in.  Doing the same in max/msp completely freezes everything, so if you had some chords going into this Vst~ object from say, an external midi source, they wouldn't be heard until AFTER you released the mouse button, meaning, well, it's bad :/

xp-more-graphical-abnormalities-vstgui-causing-damage-to-scheduler

And, albeit possibly redundant, here is a list I have complied of plugins that DO interfere with the scheduler in this mannerism. Items prepended by a "_" mean *any* plugin by this developer causes this behavior. Items without are meant to represent individual plugin names. Albeit, I never meant to release this so...

Mjharmonicpingonly //Excessive Parameters

And, albeit possibly redundant, here is a list I have complied of plugins that DO interfere with the scheduler in this mannerism.  Items prepended by a "_" mean *any* plugin by this developer causes this behavior.  Items without are meant to represent individual plugin names.  Albeit, I never meant to release this so...

--=--=------=--=------=--=----
-=-DEVELOPERS-=-

_Algomusic
_Anarchy
_Antares
_Anwinda Soft
_Arcdev
_Audio Damage
_Bigtick
_Bioroid
_Bluetubes
_Bram [Smartelectronix]
_Bserrano
_Buzzroom
_Dashsynthesis
_Sonalksis
_Daves
_David Ross
_Devine Machine
_Dexters Plugins
_Dfx
_Digitalfishphones
_Djmarko
_Dmi [Smartelectronix]
_Dr Ambient
_E-Phonic
_Efm
_Elogoxa
_Evm
_Focusrite
_Fretted Audio
_G200K
_Gmedia
_Hg Fortune
_Insert Piz
_Interupter
_Ioplong
_Novuzeit
_Jasonsynth
_Karma_Fx
_Krakli
_Linplug
_Mnb
_Muon
_Mutagene
_Ndc
_Novakill
_Nubi3.Com
_Nugen
_Nullpointer
_Odo
_Oli_Larken
_Otiumfx
_Plogue
_Prosoniq //Other Than Northpole
_Psp
_Psychic_Modulation (Ph0Ne)
_Rcg Pentagon 1, Triangle 1+2
_Redshift Audio
_Refx
_Scuzzphut
_Silverspike
_Sknote
_Slimslowslider
_Soundhack
_Subtek
_Tiny God
_Tkplugins
_Tweakbench
_Maxx_klaster
_U-He
_Ugo
_Ukm
_Urs
_Virtual Creations
_Waldorf
_Wurr Audio
_Wwaym (Nwbass)
_Xavier
_Xsynth
_Z-Plugs

--=--=------=--=------=--=----
-=-INDIVIDUAL-=-

A0 Creamplifier
Abakos
Additive Synth
Admiral Quality Scamp
Aneotic Room Sim
Arcdev Cyclotron
Av Chromium
Azr3
Ballsequencer //(100% Cpu In Max)
Basslane
Baxxpander
Bitcrusher
Byd_Equinox
Cableguys Curve
Camelphat Free
Chip32
Chodspace
Chopitch
Convolver
Crystal
Dblue Glitch
Discodsp Discovery
Dq7
Fb1
Filterizer
Filtertuete
Fortune Cookie
Ftmstring
Ganymed
Greenwah
Grenade
Gtg K1
Hematohm
Impulse
Juno106
Jup-6
Karlette
Kp-6
Kt Granulator
Lost Technology
Lpgeq2
Mgtriggergate
Microgram
Mixbox
Mjharmonicpingonly //Excessive Parameters
Mono
More Feedback Machine
Morphite
Mr Green
Nlsynth
Nyquisteq5
Osiris6
P-600
Paax
Pariseq
Pg-23
Pulsewidthmodifier
Q_Del0Izer
Qwarpfilter
Quikquak Rayspace
Reverbomatic
Ringmod_Vst_Pc
Rogue
Rotopuker
Rubytube
Saturator
Scanned Synth
Soha Sonata
Solo
Dq1_Stereo
Spec Monkey
Synapse Plucked
Synapse Scorption
Synth1
Trasher
Tube Booster
Vectic
Vivaldi
Voctopus
Vopm
Voyager (Cpu Error)
Vstjuno6 //Sourceforge
Vstsynthfont
Warever
Wnmiasma
Xchorus //Doesn't Respond To Cc Messages
Xcita
Xtal
Xverb
Ymvst
Zodiac6

--=--=------=--=------=--=----
-=-recent additions-=-

ps-1 performance synth
sohosonata
chopitch
chopan
heizenbox


Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down)

That is very strange. I had no idea that some plugins 

acted this way. My guess is that some plugins do not 

Date: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:38 am

Subject: [maxmsp] Re: XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing

> Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler 

> entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the 

> params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down)

That is very strange. I had no idea that some plugins 
acted this way. My guess is that some plugins do not 
have a separate thread for their UIs.

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Pask 
Date: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:38 am
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing
	damage to scheduler?

>
>
>
> Excellent.
>
> Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler 
> entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the 
> params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down)
>
> -A
>


I can't however, confirm the problem with Hematohm, with Overdrive on or off.

Hrm, well, I may have made some mistakes. I can guarentee that the majority of that list has problems =/ in the same way that the first one has. If you want, and since most are freeware, I can compile you some links so you don't have to go searching for them. Or, if you're content with just the first example, then I'll opt out. Either way, it'd be good to find out what's up. Aanti of smart electronix says its because people use VSTGUI to develop their interfaces, or something along those lines.

Hrm, well, I may have made some mistakes.  I can guarentee that the majority of that list has problems =/ in the same way that the first one has.  If you want, and since most are freeware, I can compile you some links so you don't have to go searching for them.  Or, if you're content with just the first example, then I'll opt out.  Either way, it'd be good to find out what's up. Aanti of smart electronix says its because people use VSTGUI to develop their interfaces, or something along those lines.


http://www.cableguys.de/downloads/CableGuys-Curve-0.4b.zip

http://bigblueamoeba.com/mirror/greenoak/files/Crystal.zip

http://www.digitalfishphones.com/binaries/the_fish_fillets_v1_1.zip

I deleted the plugins on that list so I would have to reconfirm each link. These 3 seem to do the so called schedule stopping behavior. I think some of those plugins on that list are on there just because I don't like them. Sorry, I'll confirm some over again later today...

http://www.cableguys.de/downloads/CableGuys-Curve-0.4b.zip
http://bigblueamoeba.com/mirror/greenoak/files/Crystal.zip
http://www.digitalfishphones.com/binaries/the_fish_fillets_v1_1.zip

I deleted the plugins on that list so I would have to reconfirm each link.  These 3 seem to do the so called schedule stopping behavior.  I think some of those plugins on that list are on there just because I don't like them. Sorry, I'll confirm some over again later today...


it sounds strange that VSTGUI should cause this.

what about midi? maybe it happens when a plug-in attempts

to send out midi (which vst~ doesnt want)

hematohm for example sens NRPN (2 CC at once when you move a dial)

what about midi? maybe it happens when a plug-in attempts
to send out midi (which vst~ doesnt want)

hematohm for example sens NRPN (2 CC at once when you move a dial)


Ok, thanks for the reporting. This has been fixed for the next release of Windows MaxMSP, which will be arriving shortly.

Andrew, you're a god!! Thanks for responding and fixing this.

Any chance of posting this on the incremental update?

XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing damage to scheduler?