XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing damage to scheduler?

    Sep 15 2006 | 3:35 pm
    I posted back about this a while back and my example/explanation of the problem wasn't quite correct and failed to take notice. What I have found, and should be addressed, is that, in my own tests, approximately 300-400 vst plugins for windows out of about 800 I have do not work correctly with the vst~ object in max/msp.
    What is happening is one of two things. In the first, less volitile situation, the Max scheduler is completely frozen. In the second scenario merely loading the program causes max to freeze, and, the task manager is required to close it down, if you can manage to open it.
    So I made a small patch and included a few plugins, one which works, and one which doesn't. Please, try it out and tell me what you think.
    --=--=------=--=------=--=---- Here is the patch: http://bine.aporre.com/vst_scheduler_interface.zip --=--=------=--=------=--=----
    So, you load the first plugin, all is fine. Load the 2nd one, and the scheduler craps out. In regards to the 2nd plugin, like I said, I have tested about 800 plugins and about half of them suffer from this. A few of my plugin programming friends said that the problem was VSTGUI. I notice this kind of behavior in Cubase and such, but, the main difference between these 2 applications is that, in Cubase, it'll still keep the timing and midi events won't be frozen while the mouse button is down! Graphical updates will cease, but the timeline still goes forward and you can hear the musical information you've put in. Doing the same in max/msp completely freezes everything, so if you had some chords going into this Vst~ object from say, an external midi source, they wouldn't be heard until AFTER you released the mouse button, meaning, well, it's bad :/
    Thanks for your time,

    • Sep 15 2006 | 3:37 pm
      And, albeit possibly redundant, here is a list I have complied of plugins that DO interfere with the scheduler in this mannerism. Items prepended by a "_" mean *any* plugin by this developer causes this behavior. Items without are meant to represent individual plugin names. Albeit, I never meant to release this so...
      --=--=------=--=------=--=---- -=-DEVELOPERS-=-
      _Algomusic _Anarchy _Antares _Anwinda Soft _Arcdev _Audio Damage _Bigtick _Bioroid _Bluetubes _Bram [Smartelectronix] _Bserrano _Buzzroom _Dashsynthesis _Sonalksis _Daves _David Ross _Devine Machine _Dexters Plugins _Dfx _Digitalfishphones _Djmarko _Dmi [Smartelectronix] _Dr Ambient _E-Phonic _Efm _Elogoxa _Evm _Focusrite _Fretted Audio _G200K _Gmedia _Hg Fortune _Insert Piz _Interupter _Ioplong _Novuzeit _Jasonsynth _Karma_Fx _Krakli _Linplug _Mnb _Muon _Mutagene _Ndc _Novakill _Nubi3.Com _Nugen _Nullpointer _Odo _Oli_Larken _Otiumfx _Plogue _Prosoniq //Other Than Northpole _Psp _Psychic_Modulation (Ph0Ne) _Rcg Pentagon 1, Triangle 1+2 _Redshift Audio _Refx _Scuzzphut _Silverspike _Sknote _Slimslowslider _Soundhack _Subtek _Tiny God _Tkplugins _Tweakbench _Maxx_klaster _U-He _Ugo _Ukm _Urs _Virtual Creations _Waldorf _Wurr Audio _Wwaym (Nwbass) _Xavier _Xsynth _Z-Plugs
      --=--=------=--=------=--=---- -=-INDIVIDUAL-=-
      A0 Creamplifier Abakos Additive Synth Admiral Quality Scamp Aneotic Room Sim Arcdev Cyclotron Av Chromium Azr3 Ballsequencer //(100% Cpu In Max) Basslane Baxxpander Bitcrusher Byd_Equinox Cableguys Curve Camelphat Free Chip32 Chodspace Chopitch Convolver Crystal Dblue Glitch Discodsp Discovery Dq7 Fb1 Filterizer Filtertuete Fortune Cookie Ftmstring Ganymed Greenwah Grenade Gtg K1 Hematohm Impulse Juno106 Jup-6 Karlette Kp-6 Kt Granulator Lost Technology Lpgeq2 Mgtriggergate Microgram Mixbox Mjharmonicpingonly //Excessive Parameters Mono More Feedback Machine Morphite Mr Green Nlsynth Nyquisteq5 Osiris6 P-600 Paax Pariseq Pg-23 Pulsewidthmodifier Q_Del0Izer Qwarpfilter Quikquak Rayspace Reverbomatic Ringmod_Vst_Pc Rogue Rotopuker Rubytube Saturator Scanned Synth Soha Sonata Solo Dq1_Stereo Spec Monkey Synapse Plucked Synapse Scorption Synth1 Trasher Tube Booster Vectic Vivaldi Voctopus Vopm Voyager (Cpu Error) Vstjuno6 //Sourceforge Vstsynthfont Warever Wnmiasma Xchorus //Doesn't Respond To Cc Messages Xcita Xtal Xverb Ymvst Zodiac6
      --=--=------=--=------=--=---- -=-recent additions-=-
      ps-1 performance synth sohosonata chopitch chopan heizenbox
    • Sep 15 2006 | 4:35 pm
      Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down)
    • Sep 15 2006 | 4:45 pm
      That is very strange. I had no idea that some plugins acted this way. My guess is that some plugins do not have a separate thread for their UIs.
      ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Pask Date: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:38 am Subject: [maxmsp] Re: XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing damage to scheduler?
      > > > > Excellent. > > Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler > entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the > params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down) > > -A >
    • Sep 15 2006 | 4:48 pm
      I can't however, confirm the problem with Hematohm, with Overdrive on or off.
    • Sep 15 2006 | 5:11 pm
      Hrm, well, I may have made some mistakes. I can guarentee that the majority of that list has problems =/ in the same way that the first one has. If you want, and since most are freeware, I can compile you some links so you don't have to go searching for them. Or, if you're content with just the first example, then I'll opt out. Either way, it'd be good to find out what's up. Aanti of smart electronix says its because people use VSTGUI to develop their interfaces, or something along those lines.
    • Sep 15 2006 | 7:56 pm
      heres a few links for you Andrew....
      I deleted the plugins on that list so I would have to reconfirm each link. These 3 seem to do the so called schedule stopping behavior. I think some of those plugins on that list are on there just because I don't like them. Sorry, I'll confirm some over again later today...
    • Sep 16 2006 | 2:19 am
      it sounds strange that VSTGUI should cause this.
      what about midi? maybe it happens when a plug-in attempts to send out midi (which vst~ doesnt want)
      hematohm for example sens NRPN (2 CC at once when you move a dial)
    • Sep 18 2006 | 7:44 pm
      Ok, thanks for the reporting. This has been fixed for the next release of Windows MaxMSP, which will be arriving shortly.
    • Sep 19 2006 | 6:39 am
      Andrew, you're a god!! Thanks for responding and fixing this.
      Any chance of posting this on the incremental update?