XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing damage to scheduler?


    Sep 15 2006 | 3:35 pm
    I posted back about this a while back and my example/explanation of the problem wasn't quite correct and failed to take notice. What I have found, and should be addressed, is that, in my own tests, approximately 300-400 vst plugins for windows out of about 800 I have do not work correctly with the vst~ object in max/msp.
    What is happening is one of two things. In the first, less volitile situation, the Max scheduler is completely frozen. In the second scenario merely loading the program causes max to freeze, and, the task manager is required to close it down, if you can manage to open it.
    So I made a small patch and included a few plugins, one which works, and one which doesn't. Please, try it out and tell me what you think.
    --=--=------=--=------=--=----
    Here is the patch: http://bine.aporre.com/vst_scheduler_interface.zip
    --=--=------=--=------=--=----
    So, you load the first plugin, all is fine. Load the 2nd one, and the scheduler craps out. In regards to the 2nd plugin, like I said, I have tested about 800 plugins and about half of them suffer from this. A few of my plugin programming friends said that the problem was VSTGUI. I notice this kind of behavior in Cubase and such, but, the main difference between these 2 applications is that, in Cubase, it'll still keep the timing and midi events won't be frozen while the mouse button is down! Graphical updates will cease, but the timeline still goes forward and you can hear the musical information you've put in. Doing the same in max/msp completely freezes everything, so if you had some chords going into this Vst~ object from say, an external midi source, they wouldn't be heard until AFTER you released the mouse button, meaning, well, it's bad :/
    Thanks for your time,
    James

    • Sep 15 2006 | 3:37 pm
      And, albeit possibly redundant, here is a list I have complied of plugins that DO interfere with the scheduler in this mannerism. Items prepended by a "_" mean *any* plugin by this developer causes this behavior. Items without are meant to represent individual plugin names. Albeit, I never meant to release this so...
      --=--=------=--=------=--=----
      -=-DEVELOPERS-=-
      _Algomusic
      _Anarchy
      _Antares
      _Anwinda Soft
      _Arcdev
      _Audio Damage
      _Bigtick
      _Bioroid
      _Bluetubes
      _Bram [Smartelectronix]
      _Bserrano
      _Buzzroom
      _Dashsynthesis
      _Sonalksis
      _Daves
      _David Ross
      _Devine Machine
      _Dexters Plugins
      _Dfx
      _Digitalfishphones
      _Djmarko
      _Dmi [Smartelectronix]
      _Dr Ambient
      _E-Phonic
      _Efm
      _Elogoxa
      _Evm
      _Focusrite
      _Fretted Audio
      _G200K
      _Gmedia
      _Hg Fortune
      _Insert Piz
      _Interupter
      _Ioplong
      _Novuzeit
      _Jasonsynth
      _Karma_Fx
      _Krakli
      _Linplug
      _Mnb
      _Muon
      _Mutagene
      _Ndc
      _Novakill
      _Nubi3.Com
      _Nugen
      _Nullpointer
      _Odo
      _Oli_Larken
      _Otiumfx
      _Plogue
      _Prosoniq //Other Than Northpole
      _Psp
      _Psychic_Modulation (Ph0Ne)
      _Rcg Pentagon 1, Triangle 1+2
      _Redshift Audio
      _Refx
      _Scuzzphut
      _Silverspike
      _Sknote
      _Slimslowslider
      _Soundhack
      _Subtek
      _Tiny God
      _Tkplugins
      _Tweakbench
      _Maxx_klaster
      _U-He
      _Ugo
      _Ukm
      _Urs
      _Virtual Creations
      _Waldorf
      _Wurr Audio
      _Wwaym (Nwbass)
      _Xavier
      _Xsynth
      _Z-Plugs
      --=--=------=--=------=--=----
      -=-INDIVIDUAL-=-
      A0 Creamplifier
      Abakos
      Additive Synth
      Admiral Quality Scamp
      Aneotic Room Sim
      Arcdev Cyclotron
      Av Chromium
      Azr3
      Ballsequencer //(100% Cpu In Max)
      Basslane
      Baxxpander
      Bitcrusher
      Byd_Equinox
      Cableguys Curve
      Camelphat Free
      Chip32
      Chodspace
      Chopitch
      Convolver
      Crystal
      Dblue Glitch
      Discodsp Discovery
      Dq7
      Fb1
      Filterizer
      Filtertuete
      Fortune Cookie
      Ftmstring
      Ganymed
      Greenwah
      Grenade
      Gtg K1
      Hematohm
      Impulse
      Juno106
      Jup-6
      Karlette
      Kp-6
      Kt Granulator
      Lost Technology
      Lpgeq2
      Mgtriggergate
      Microgram
      Mixbox
      Mjharmonicpingonly //Excessive Parameters
      Mono
      More Feedback Machine
      Morphite
      Mr Green
      Nlsynth
      Nyquisteq5
      Osiris6
      P-600
      Paax
      Pariseq
      Pg-23
      Pulsewidthmodifier
      Q_Del0Izer
      Qwarpfilter
      Quikquak Rayspace
      Reverbomatic
      Ringmod_Vst_Pc
      Rogue
      Rotopuker
      Rubytube
      Saturator
      Scanned Synth
      Soha Sonata
      Solo
      Dq1_Stereo
      Spec Monkey
      Synapse Plucked
      Synapse Scorption
      Synth1
      Trasher
      Tube Booster
      Vectic
      Vivaldi
      Voctopus
      Vopm
      Voyager (Cpu Error)
      Vstjuno6 //Sourceforge
      Vstsynthfont
      Warever
      Wnmiasma
      Xchorus //Doesn't Respond To Cc Messages
      Xcita
      Xtal
      Xverb
      Ymvst
      Zodiac6
      --=--=------=--=------=--=----
      -=-recent additions-=-
      ps-1 performance synth
      sohosonata
      chopitch
      chopan
      heizenbox
    • Sep 15 2006 | 4:35 pm
      Excellent.
      Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down)
      -A
    • Sep 15 2006 | 4:45 pm
      That is very strange. I had no idea that some plugins
      acted this way. My guess is that some plugins do not
      have a separate thread for their UIs.
      Anthony
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Andrew Pask
      Date: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:38 am
      Subject: [maxmsp] Re: XP: More Graphical Abnormalities: VSTGUI causing
      damage to scheduler?
      >
      >
      >
      > Excellent.
      >
      > Thanks for the patch and plugs James. I do not lose the scheduler
      > entirely but I am seeing the scheduler stop when I am changing the
      > params in the 2nd vst ( mouse held down)
      >
      > -A
      >
    • Sep 15 2006 | 4:48 pm
      I can't however, confirm the problem with Hematohm, with Overdrive on or off.
      -A
    • Sep 15 2006 | 5:11 pm
      Hrm, well, I may have made some mistakes. I can guarentee that the majority of that list has problems =/ in the same way that the first one has. If you want, and since most are freeware, I can compile you some links so you don't have to go searching for them. Or, if you're content with just the first example, then I'll opt out. Either way, it'd be good to find out what's up. Aanti of smart electronix says its because people use VSTGUI to develop their interfaces, or something along those lines.
    • Sep 15 2006 | 7:56 pm
      heres a few links for you Andrew....
      http://www.cableguys.de/downloads/CableGuys-Curve-0.4b.zip
      http://bigblueamoeba.com/mirror/greenoak/files/Crystal.zip
      I deleted the plugins on that list so I would have to reconfirm each link. These 3 seem to do the so called schedule stopping behavior. I think some of those plugins on that list are on there just because I don't like them. Sorry, I'll confirm some over again later today...
    • Sep 16 2006 | 2:19 am
      it sounds strange that VSTGUI should cause this.
      what about midi? maybe it happens when a plug-in attempts
      to send out midi (which vst~ doesnt want)
      hematohm for example sens NRPN (2 CC at once when you move a dial)
    • Sep 18 2006 | 7:44 pm
      Ok, thanks for the reporting. This has been fixed for the next release of Windows MaxMSP, which will be arriving shortly.
      -A
    • Sep 19 2006 | 6:39 am
      Andrew, you're a god!! Thanks for responding and fixing this.
      Any chance of posting this on the incremental update?
      James