Max/MSP + CryEngine ?

Jan 22, 2012 at 1:07pm

Max/MSP + CryEngine ?

Hello everybody,

I started a thread a while ago, regarding my project ( http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=36921 ) but due to the nature of its current development, I have been changing directions, and mostly, keeping my options open for other engines.

So my question is, does anybody have any experience whatsoever operating CryEngine with Max/MSP? I’ve been trying to do some research on interoperation, but it seems its not that of a popular choice. My initial goal was to work with Unity, through the free standalone [muy] and there were plenty of resources to work with.

Maybe in the process some other option might come up, but for the time being, it’s good to collect some resources anyway, for future reference.

Thanks everybody,
Yiannis

#61387
Jan 22, 2012 at 11:50pm

Anyone?

#221384
Jan 23, 2012 at 1:23am

Max Msp has its own 3d renderer, consequently I’m not expecting a lot of interest in interconnections

#221385
Jan 23, 2012 at 1:46am

Of course, sure, but it’s for responsive audio for video games.

#221386
Jan 23, 2012 at 5:29am

I know some basics about videogame audio. AFAIK

A) CryEngine has its own audio subsystem

B) Many videogame audio apis are in widespread use – see under FMOD. The only serious video game person to my knowledge using Max MSP is a woman who works on the Sims – I saw the interview on this site actually.

Not that what you want is undoable, just mainly unnecessary.

#221387
Jan 23, 2012 at 12:43pm

I am aware of all these things, but I want to make a generative interactive performance, something I can’t do with other middlewares, like FMOD etc. A lot of people do use Max/MSP for generative compositions of responsive audio, the guy that did Limbo, Akira Yamaoka for Silent Hill etc.

Looking at commercial middleware was my first option, but I need something much more specific, hence the development on Max/MSP.

Thanks for your response, nonetheless!

#221388
Jan 23, 2012 at 5:34pm

I have looked at your examples of games and you are correct. Do you own max? If so I think it would be worthwhile for you to ask c74 support and report back to the forum.

Thanks very much in advance

Joe

#221389
Jan 24, 2012 at 1:12pm

I do own Max, yes. Actually, that’s a really good idea, I will do so and respond to this thread accordingly. Thanks so much!

#221390
Jan 26, 2012 at 4:17pm

I will bump this one last time, since it’s an important question. I emailed the C74 people but they haven’t answered back, and I still haven’t found anything from researching the internet.

#221391
Jan 26, 2012 at 4:54pm

Hello,

i’m not very experienced in development ; but why not puredata / libpd ?

It is BSD and API is C.

http://noisepages.com/groups/pd-everywhere/forum/topic/assets-and-drawback-of-libpd-as-a-sound-engine/

My 2 cents.

#221392
Jan 26, 2012 at 5:36pm

It is very true.

PD was my Plan B (in case I encountered irreversable difficulties with Max), being open-source and all, but unfortunately, I am really far in development… Originally, I was to implement it with Unity and UDK, and there was no problem in the process, but as I mentioned, plans in the development have inevitably changed.

But thank you so much Vanille! Interesting source!

#221393
Jan 26, 2012 at 6:19pm

Hello,

CryEngine, Unity, UDK … seems to be oriented more about graphic 3D rendering than “original and cute” musics (according to their website) ;-)

#221394
Jan 26, 2012 at 7:40pm

Hahaha, I think I know what you mean! Basically, I am working on a responsive audio (music) patch that will interact with a CryEngine game!

#221395
Jan 26, 2012 at 10:23pm

surely you can call them? Does the documentation not say if they offer phone support?

#221396
Jan 27, 2012 at 1:23am

I could try that, though it doesn’t really sound all that practical, troubleshooting over the phone…

#221397
Jan 27, 2012 at 1:32am

Any official info would be useful, IMO…

#221398
Jan 27, 2012 at 1:34am

Just ask them to look at the forum thread and reply, worst they can do is say no…

#221399
Jan 27, 2012 at 3:56am

hi deusnovus and jamesson, i’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to learn from cycling employees.

if anyone has any insight to using cryengine with max, they will reply to this thread.

most interaction with external softwares involves sending messages using OSC or udp or tcp connections.
if cryengine supports one of these forms of communication, there will be no problem communicating and interacting with max.

#221400
Jan 27, 2012 at 4:03am

Robert

We would like an API. Barring that, some kind of tutorial for using max/msp to make environmental audio and procedural music for games would be great.

Thanks

Joe

#221401
Jan 27, 2012 at 4:16am

API: http://cycling74.com/sdk/MaxSDK-5.1.7/MaxAPI-5.1.7.html

regarding your second query, perhaps you will have more look starting a new topic with a subject line and post specifying this.
the OP here seems to be asking something different…

#221402
Jan 27, 2012 at 4:44am

I fear I may have misexpressed myself when I said “api” What we would like to do is play patchers in other applications, including games. The pd link is exactly what we’re hoping for.

Thanks again

Joe

#221403
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:06am

Hello Robert and jamesson,

Thank you for your replies. Exactly what jamesson said, I was hoping I was clear enough on what I was asking. Basically, how a Max patch can interoperate with CryEngine, for environmental and procedural audio, as simple as that. (just like what that PD link does)

Thanks,
Yiannis

#221404
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:42am

As I said, I would recommend calling c74. At the very least, a question should be asked “what do people mean when they say they use max msp in games?” I could easily imagine that for instance they simply created assets that they loaded into fmod.

#221405
Jan 27, 2012 at 7:17am

Hello,

AFAIK you can do a maxMSP standalone and communicate by OSC ; but embedded (as libpd) the patch/code in your app seems not possible.

I don’t know if the SDK is properly licenced now, but the 5.1.7 ones had no licence term at all, and IMHO that can be a BIG problem if you want to work in videogames world.

http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=31208

I’m a noob but my choice has been to switch to Puredata as soon as possible as i don’t want to lose my time and hack code for nothing, even if i prefer maxMSP environment much more ;-)

PS : I think c74 plans is more about VJing/M4L than free DSP engine ; i regret, others not…

#221406
Jan 27, 2012 at 7:49am

Look, it is a simple question. Some people made some serious games with Max MSP. How did they do it? In what maner was Max MSP included into the workflow?

#221407
Jan 27, 2012 at 3:40pm

Hello,

Very informative feedback, thanks so much for sharing Vanille, but the question remains the same, just like jamesson said. When the time comes, in the far-future, I will look my licencing options, which I am aware that they’re not many. I wasn’t really looking into making any money, just a nice commercial project.

But for the moment, the question is still the same. How do you do that?

#221408
Jan 27, 2012 at 4:28pm

Hello

About Sims :

“Robi also mentioned that there are many sounds that need to be in the Sims. In order to work efficiently, Robi and The Sims team use Max/MSP to build an application to record and edit sound in a more effective way.”

http://www.etc.cmu.edu/siliconvalley/blog/2011/12/07/robi-kauker-audio-dietector-at-the-sims/

“Basically from what I understand is that their entire VO recording process is pretty much automated using Max/MSP.”

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/5944/puredata-and-mobile-phone-games-sound

#221409
Jan 27, 2012 at 4:58pm

Amazing source! I assume that was the person jamesson was talking about, pretty nice!

And trust me Vanille, truth be told, given this and that, I would have switched to PD in a heartbeat if I could, but I am so far into development that I can’t back down!

Plus, if we manage to overcome this obstacle and figure out a way to implement Max to CryEngine or to whichever platform, it’ll be easier for future generations to come. ;)

#221410
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:11pm

Look, it seems like there is no api. What ppl are doing is essentially “let’s build a daw to our own specs”. Now, question is, is fmod and co. sufficiently advanced to obviate the need for using max the way you want? If so, then you should go learn that. Surely you want to be consistent with industry sota?

I was hopeful too, at first, but it’s clear now that max is for daw users rather than engine developers. It’s not that it wouldn’t be nice to do what you want, it’s just that it looks like it’s not in the program.

#221411
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:29pm

What I’ve created is a personalized middleware, build up to my needs, just like the Sims people did, or whoever wanted to have something very specific and user-friendly to the eye of the Max user. In its current form, it does something that FMOD cannot, so no, using a common middleware wouldn’t be an option I’m afraid.

Nonetheless, I am really grateful you guys took the time to look into it, I appreciate it! I’ll keep researching on this, eventually I’ll find the way.

#221412
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:33pm

In fact, Max would be ideal for resource acquisition for videogames, which require huge numbers of files made in an organized fashion. You could programatically configure file naming and organization, which would allow the engine coders to write code without worryiong about file locations.

#221413
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:37pm

That is absolutely not a problem for me! (I’m a nut for organization.)

#221414
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:39pm

I think you should post your work and we can see for ourselves if we can replicate it in fmod or whatever. A great learning experience for all!

#221415
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:42pm

As soon as I complete it, definetely! It’s a really nice work, and I will still try to find a way to get it to work with CryEngine. If there’s not a way, I’ll make one! *foolish optimism*

#221416
Jan 27, 2012 at 5:45pm

Think about something like Mass Effect (hours upon hours of dialogue). I don’t care if you’re Herman Hollerith, you’ll never keep all that straight by yourself. Much easier to have scripted file naming in Max.

#221417
Jan 27, 2012 at 6:26pm

Oh, maybe I wasn’t really clear on the nature of my project

I will be showcasing my tool on a 10-minute game level, no cutscenes, no nothing. But it’ll show what it can potentially do in a real-life scenario, just like the people that have used Max in the industry, like the people mentioned above.

Could be in an artform hame, life sim, FPS, whatever you want.

#221418
Jan 27, 2012 at 6:40pm

Plus, I’d like to assume that it’s the composer’s duty to know how to crrate his own tool but it’s the programmer’s duty to know how to implement it.

Maybe we’re getting kind of off-track and rhetorical with this, but point is that I am trying to accomplish both duties, with a ridiculously little programming experience… *sigh*

#221419
Jan 27, 2012 at 6:40pm

No, I know what you were planning. I’m just describing the way ppl in the industry use it.

#221420
Jan 27, 2012 at 6:52pm

I think a big problem is that you aren’t familiar with standard workflows. This is why I was at first confused by the examples you cited. I would take a look at gamasutra and/or major game company job listings (other than, say, harmonix). Eferybody needs you to know something like fmod. Few ppl specify max/msp.

#221421
Jan 27, 2012 at 8:12pm

I know, I have already used it in the past. I just wanted to do something out of the ordinary, with/for a reason of course.

#221422
Jan 27, 2012 at 8:28pm

If you’re going for a final product (instead of a tech demo) I would convert to pd asap.

#221423
Jan 27, 2012 at 8:30pm

It’ll be just a tech demo, but if I ever decide to release it, I might just do that.

#221424
Jan 29, 2012 at 1:31am

After some research,I feel like your best option is csound. I will take a more in-depth look at it later.

#221425
Jan 29, 2012 at 2:18am

To do what with Csound? I have played too much with Csound, it wouldn’t seem relevant to my project. By the way, I did found a way to connect Max/MSP + CryEngine. Research paid off, I will be updating the forum soon.

#221426
Jan 29, 2012 at 5:13am

Csound can load vstis and dynamically manipulate them.

#221427
Jan 29, 2012 at 5:17am

Pretty awesome if you found a solution tho.

#221428
Feb 10, 2012 at 10:01pm

Please, do not forget to put the solution you found here! It would be really helpful.

Thank you.

#221429
Feb 10, 2012 at 11:55pm

Sure thing!

#221430
May 7, 2012 at 3:58pm

i have used unity with maxmsp a couple of times with this method http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/4853-Max-MSP-communication (the one described by bjerre) other than that there is the mu solution and then there is a midi plugin for unity .. cant find the link but i used that with maxmsp a lot for a while.

#221431
May 7, 2012 at 4:23pm

That’s exactly what I used for Unity3D, instead here: http://audioprogrammingblog.tumblr.com/post/21232594245/creative-preparations-and-considerations-in-max-msp-3

But turns out, any software that can work as an API will allow a communication like that, so now it would be a matter of figuring out how to create the sender within CryEngine.

As I might have said in a similar thread: http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=37913 …I ended up using Unity3D for my work, instead of CryEngine (due to game limitations, really.) but from my research, I see that all softwares work the same.

#221432

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