1) Atmos audio via HDMI from MaxMSP to Surround processors 2) Timecode video sync
Hi,
I am working on a demanding HDR image quality comparison project here in Helsinki Finland, in essence comparing various video standards side by side, requiring as close to frame accurate syncing of two 4K HEVC/H265 videos side by side as possible.. shown on two LG C2 OLED tvs. The videos are encoded with Dolby Atmos (11.1.4/7.1.4), HEVC/H265 centrally.
1) VIDEO SYNC within MAXMSP with timecode:
I have the sync of two 4K videos already happening, super close to frame accurate.. using route pass time/route time.. comparisons, very happy about it, and I have a basic GUI also together already. Some occasional strangeness with scrolling in the videos with a slider... when pausing and restarting, glitches with keeping sync.
Anyways, since the videos do have timecode in them, it would really be the most ideal syncing method, as well as the ability to show the timecode via a simple GUI during runtime..
So: I have been searching far and wide in WWW/Forums etc.. but most examples appear to relate to external hardware timecode sync/MTC etc, but not really sync of two videos with timecode, needing to be synced within a MaxMSPJitter patch.
I have been checking for smpte~ matters etc, found this link, https://cycling74.com/tools/smpte.. which has the following link... here: https://cycling74.com/files/2012/12/smpte.zip but apparently it is no more active. Archive dot org has nothing archived either. Any advice/viewpoints re: this would be majorly appreciated... !
Not to make matters duller: Audio:
2) DOLBY ATMOS:
I need to get the Dolby Atmos audio (11.1.4/7.1.4) in the videos to play back via HDMI 2.1 cable, in a screening space which has a JBL SDP-55 surround processor (this one: https://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/electronics/SDP-55-.html)
I have seen various threads here in MaxMSP forums re: HDMI surround audio output issues also, but several were not really resolved.. nada/zip... yet, I have seen people have had success with basic stereo, 5.1, upto apparently 8ch HDMI audio channels appearing as audio output options. Regardess, Dolby Atmos is very likely a whole another "animal"/matter.
I have been checking also, just in case, whether something like Jack (win), Loopback Audio (Mac) or.. Black Box Toslink-to HDMI audio embedder box might help. No matter what, centrally.. very interested in finding out whether this is even possible in MaxMSP, or blocked/not supported/not technically possible. I do not yet have the access to the ultimate gear, will take a few weeks, sorting out the options already now.
I sense that both matters above might be very useful for media artists/designers working on interactive/immersive/cinematic installations and experiences, would be lovely to figure them out, or "figure out how to figure them out".. :)
Thank you for any advice/hints re: above matters,
Best regards,
Marko, 1952 Olympic Village, Helsinki
www.parasense.fi
Hello Marko,
Check out Spat - https://forum.ircam.fr/projects/detail/spat/
Specifically spat5.ltc.decode~
Works beautifully within Max, I've used it on stadium shows without a hitch
B
Hi Billy,
Thank you for your reply...
I am aware of Spat, spent some quality time in IRCAM Academie Déte back in the day in Paris. Been playing with it along a few other immersive audio tools, Ambisonics etc. Flux Audio Spat Revolution is also something I have been interested in.. but, very expensive.
2) Yet.. Unfortunately, with the project in question, more than fully stuck with having to sort out whether Dolby Atmos could somehow be output from the videos played in sync in MaxMSPJitter, via HDMI, due to nature of the space/gear being utilized/tested, very specific requirements.
3) I will likely have to try to see what shows up in the audio outputs in Max with the HDMI cable in, once I get full access to all the gear in question. People have reported 8 surround channels showing up in HDMI audio output option, but again, Atmos.. is its own animal.
4) Ville Pulkki here in Helsinki at Aalto University is quite a zenmaster in the field of surround, behind VBap, Directional Audio Codecs which Fraunhofer bought from him etc.. Ville received a SMPTE Samuel L Warner Memorial Award for his surround work/research along with... George Lucas. I might possibly ask Ville, as he has a very wide experience with surround sound, but.. not convinced even he knows the answer, gets into such nitty gritty, dependencies, and Dolby Atmos is def. a proprietary standard.. Apple Macbooks do support it upto a point, question is simply how to play it back out, into a surround sound processor.. luckily, nothing to do with having to author/live pan etc..
In any case, thank you again for your recommendation, much appreciated.. !
Best regards,
Marko.
sounds like a good idea (and i envy you for such an enviroment) :)
however, if everything is falling apart, you might find a solution by decoding the object based audiostream from hmpeg or whatever it is and for example transform everything into a channel format, which then can be played easily and safe with max while also saving you f rom the use of a certain decoder live.
Hi Roman,
Major thanks.. !
Hmm.. Interesting.. been indeed thinking about various "trojan horse" & similar clever methods/schemes, have to dig into it and see what is possible.. If something like this is, happy to share here what I find. Fully understanding that my case has very specific angles...
The video files definitely have Dolby Atmos surround tracks in them, and it is possible that new such tracks have to be used, so, whatever the solution is, will have to work out well for new Atmos embedded files from getgo.. No matter what, I will see what is indeed possible.
Ps. love the term.... "certain decoder".. :)
Best regards,
Marko
Hei Marko,
Canadian, but a Sound in New Media alumni here.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but since jit.movie bypasses Max audio altogether, would it not pass the encoded Atmos out the HDMI cable? I don't have an Atmos decoder/avr to test with myself. It doesn't sound like you're looking to do anything with the audio in Max.
Simon
Hi Simon,
Thank you for your reply!
1) Aalto University Sound in New Media?:), if so, been guiding Masters thesis there, on.. VR 3D audio, music therapy, audio augmented reality, novel instrument design etc..
2) How MaxMSP lets video to flow out via Win10pro to JBL SDP55, is the real test about to happen in a few weeks.. as I finally get access to the JBL and PC gear.. But... the PC is an HPZ8 workstation with an NVidia RTX6000 card, which in itself.. has only displayport outputs. Those have to be converted to HDMI.. That is a restriction not under my control unf. In the list of RTX6000 specs, Atmos is not marked or mentioned under Dolby formats, earlier ones were.. so, will be a hybrid nice challenge.
I just found out that Dante is out.. if there was some way to use it even: JBL SDP-55 only has a Dante output, not input.
Anyways, will test entire setup asap.
Best, Marko.
Hi Marko,
Yes, at Aalto. I saw you mentioned Aalto above and looked at your website. It looks like there are still some familiar names around: Rasmus Vuori, Matti Niinimäki, Koray...
Good luck with Atmos output and the rest of the project!
Simon
Thank you!
Best, Marko.