Danny de Graan

I just discovered that Abelton loses its output when using multiple "Multichannel-Random 4 sends" M4L devices (±9 at the moment) .

My OS (osx10.6.8) still has sound out but I have to restart Ableton to get the sound back again.

Any idea's on how to resolve this? I have a performance tomorrow and like to use multiple speakers.

I just discovered that Abelton loses its output when using multiple "Multichannel-Random 4 sends" M4L devices (±9 at the moment) .
My OS (osx10.6.8) still has sound out but I have to restart Ableton to get the sound back again. 

Any idea's on how to resolve this? I have a performance tomorrow and like to use multiple speakers.


ableton-loses-sound-while-using-multichannel-random-4-sends-m4l

Not much to go on. What Live & Max versions do you use?

And how did you determine that Live doesn't make any sound any longer? Have you also tried adding a new track/instrument which sends directly to the Master to see if that changed something, have you also tried simply closing your liveset (so starting "fresh") to see if that helped?

Also what made you conclude that it would be related to this patch? Because at a quick glimpse I can see that apart from changing some parameters this patch sends all sound signals through directly.

iow; sure its not a mis-configured sends or return ?

And how did you determine that Live doesn't make any sound any longer?  Have you also tried adding a new track/instrument which sends directly to the Master to see if that changed something, have you also tried simply closing your liveset (so starting "fresh") to see if that helped?

Also what made you conclude that it would be related to this patch?  Because at a quick glimpse I can see that apart from changing some parameters this patch sends all sound signals through directly.

iow; sure its not a mis-configured sends or return ?


Well, if I delete all the random devices the problem is no longer there. It doesn't drop out of sound after a few minutes.

I also noticed when I added new tracks with the multichannel random device it stopped after a minute I inserted the device.

Sounds to the masted are also blocked. Personally I think it has something to do with the API and the assignments of the ID's. Maybe because there are so many it gets mixed up some how. I don't know.

The funny thing is that the test-tone in Ableton still works.

Well, if I delete all the random devices the problem is no longer there. It doesn't drop out of sound after a few minutes. 

I also noticed when I added new tracks with the multichannel random device it stopped after a minute I inserted  the device. 

The funny thing is that the test-tone in Ableton still works.


How many "Multichannel-Random 4 sends" are you using ?

How many "Multichannel-Random 4 sends"  are you using ?


However, since I removed them all I didn't had any problems anymore. At the moment I cannot investigate any further since I have to work on my composition (performance tomorrow).

But the device is definitely the problem on my machine.

However, since I removed them all I didn't had any problems anymore. At the moment I cannot investigate any further since I have to work on my composition (performance tomorrow). 

But the device is definitely the problem on my machine.


I used three + three pan sends driven by LFOs in a project recently without any problem. But I may have noticed a bug when I changed the number (or the destination, can't remember) of the aux sends on those. I had to reload a device to make it work on the sends I had added. Good luck for your performance then, specially if you then have to rely on dummy clips !

Also, someone spoke to me about something called 'octogris', made by a canadian university, that doesn't rely on M4L (AU format) and allows some of the things you can do with the multichannel devices. According to that person, it worked fine.

http://code.google.com/p/octogris/downloads/detail?name=OctogrisAllVersions11-06-03.zip&can=2&q=

I used three + three pan sends driven by LFOs in a project recently without any problem. But I may have noticed a bug when I changed the number (or the destination, can't remember) of the aux sends on those. I had to reload a device to make it work on the sends I had added. Good luck for your performance then, specially if you then have to rely on dummy clips !
Also, someone spoke to me about something called 'octogris', made by a canadian university, that doesn't rely on M4L (AU format) and allows some of the things you can do with the multichannel devices. According to that person, it worked fine.
http://code.google.com/p/octogris/downloads/detail?name=OctogrisAllVersions11-06-03.zip&can=2&q=


The performance went very well today...thanx. And thanks for the octogris AU tip. I will have a look at them tomorrow. I also like to know what the problem is with the M4L devices so will have a look at that problem as well. Didn't had the time with all the deadline stress ;-)

Some time ago now, I experienced a similar problem with sound cutting out after some time while using multi-channel 'panning' in Live for a live performance. While I suspected the M4L devices I was using for panning were somehow the culprits, it appeared that the (native Ableton) Limiters I had plugged in to the outputs of the return tracks would randomly just stop passing audio for no obvious reason and output was resumed when I bypassed the limiters. I reported it to Ableton, but they weren't able to reproduce the problem.

Re Octogris: I Don't think that will be much use (in Live), as Live only supports stereo - not multichannel- signal routing internally and Octogris typically requires more than 2 (audio) outputs. AFAIK all multi-channel routing is managed in Live by controlling levels on multiple sends routed to one or more return tracks. Glad to be wrong...

Some time ago now, I experienced a similar problem with sound cutting out after some time while using multi-channel 'panning' in Live for a live performance. While I suspected the M4L devices I was using for panning were somehow the culprits,  it appeared that the (native Ableton) Limiters I had plugged in to the outputs of the return tracks would randomly just stop passing audio for no obvious reason and output was resumed when I bypassed the limiters. I reported it to Ableton, but they weren't able to reproduce the problem.

Re Octogris: I Don't think that will be much use (in Live), as Live only supports stereo - not multichannel- signal routing internally and Octogris typically requires more than 2 (audio) outputs. AFAIK all multi-channel routing is managed in Live by controlling levels on multiple sends routed to one or more return tracks. Glad to be wrong...


Spectro, sad you are right ! The girl who talked to me about Octogris told me it relied on this system relying on sends and that it worked. Did you try it ?

Stephane: Octogris is a collection of multichannel 2D panner plug-ins that operate directly on signals (not via controlling send levels as in the workaround situation required in Live) the only *real* difference between the supplied plug-ins being the i/o configurations (1x4 1x8 etc 2x8 etc etc) and are meant to be used via a joystick (but I haven't tried). Maybe its just an issue of terminological confusion, but AFAICT Octogris will only work in Live with the first two of N channels (in or out) regardless of the particular i/o variant used. For proper use, it would be better in hosts that support multichannel audio I/O, such as MSP, Reaper (and other Daws) or AudioMulch etc...

If you are interested, It is free (AU. OS 10.6) and available at: 

http://code.google.com/p/octogris/downloads/list

 . If you do install it, make sure you copy the required framework into the Frameworks directly or it won't work.

Finally, apoolgies for derailing the original thread...

If you are interested, It is free (AU. OS 10.6) and available at: http://code.google.com/p/octogris/downloads/list . If you do install it, make sure you copy the required framework into the Frameworks directly or it won't work.

Finally, apoolgies for derailing the original thread...


http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/1120/xy-send-node

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/1120/xy-send-node
check that


thanks Spectro for the informations about optogris. 'Girl's talk' sometimes.

Ableton loses sound while using MultiChannel-Random 4 sends M4L