Eheheheh . . . I think Ableton dashed more than a few hopes with the fiasco that is Live 9 + Push.

If the L9 Beta is anything to go by then Push is a fucking disaster.

Are you using grab_control/release_control calls?

Check out Julien Bayle's fb page - he seems to be doing alot with it, but seems to be highly sysex orientated...

hey. I emailed ableton some months ago about push with some questions about it, namely, will we max people be able to use it, will there be a possibility to write to the LCD display, will there be a programmers reference guide as there is for the launchpad? Surprisingly, they answered in detail. I know it sounds studip but they really told me everything i wanted to know, but told me not to tell it anybody :) I though, hey fair enough, and didn't post it to this forum. But i guess now it doesn't matter anymore.

Basically they told me, yes, we max people will have full control about it and there will come a programmer's guide some time after the realese, it will take some time. PS: hope this is alright, dear ableton. cheers

very good and important info!

I was scared about this new version of Ableton live 9 with Max 6 plus Push controller. I feel a bit better thanks to your news :-)

I am thinking to buy Ableton 9 with Max 6. for Push, I guess I am going to wait... I have a bitstream and I am looking for a launchpad... that really helped me a lot in the past.

These objects are quite different from the Push controller philosophy and goal but I prefer to wait a bit more rather that jumping of the PUSH controller immediately... I find the controller a bit too big and I am surprized by the commercial way Ableton is proposing the Push controller (we have only one week to get 25% off.. sic...).

anyhow, I really like the M4L and it seems that MAX6 rocks ;-)

sorry about the late reply here.

Nick; honestly had no clue about those calls - can you direct me to the info? @leehu: sysex? That's... odd, in that MaxForLive still doesn't support it, from what I can tell. @woyteg: That's what I was hoping for - thanks. Care to divulge who you talked to at Ableton? That way I can get my info straight from the source. @Johnny Christ: Have you tried Live9? It's amazing, there are so many workflow improvements, and just out of the box, the way PUSH interacts with Live is really stunning, I must say. ... it's just, as a Max'er I always want more than the default ;) Glad to hear it's coming.

Yes, I have.

It's buggy, but marketing have set the date for release so here we go again.

The improvements aren't much to write home about IMO. Lack of multi-window / monitor support, broken PDC and still doesn't support the MIDI spec properly.

Workaround-flow more like.

Push looks okay but I already have controllers I consider superior . . . certainly more flexible, so it's a non-event AFAIC. I had high hopes for L9 . . . I got a half-assed filebrowser "redesign" (it's little more than the old filebrowser in disguise and unbelieveably sluggish / unwieldy) and a few slight tweaks to the UI here and there and a third-party compressor.

Break out the champagne.

I have the same feeling/opinion as Johnny Christ... this Live 9 could have been called "Ableton Live 8.5"... for Push, I am thinking of keeping my bitstream and add a launchpad :-) more flexibility like this, I guess...

to each his own, then. I need velocity-sensitivity, Launchpad has none of that, and sub-par bicolors.

Also, for L9 is just about the biggest update I've come across since L5. The way automation works now is really what I've wanted from Live all along. Yummy :)

I understand your point Wetterberg and I agree that it seems that this version (and the new functions) were something we were "all" waiting for ;-) I think I will go for the vresion 9 suite and wait later for "push".

Ahhh, I already have velocity-sensitive pad input you see so again Push brings nothing to the table.

If by automation working the way you always wanted I presume you mean you can now record automation into clips? On this matter I have to say I was absolutely gobsmacked by the fact that you previously couldn't! Arguably L9 is just backfilling features that should have been available from the start . . . as in Live 1.

I won't waste my time arguing the point about the broken (effectively non-existent) PDC w.r.t. automation. Again, I know how to work around it - the point is I shouldn't have to.

Live's great for what it is - but it still has a toy MIDI editor, a toy arrange page and a toy UI generally. The business plan going forward for Ableton seems to be pack-in / bundles / peripherals / army of shills in the form of the Ableton Certified Fanbois etc.

If I seem more than a little down on Ableton - there's a reason for that. I'm one of the many M4L customers who got screwed over on upgrade pricing to L9* . . . rest assured I'm investigating any and every means to discontinue my dealings with Ableton Inc.

*Purchased M4L one week before the L9 launch announcement wherein M4L became pack-in for Suite - zero grace-period extended and zero discount offered . . . in fact customer-service were obtuse, condescending and rude.

The fake discount they did extend felt like coercion.

The real kicker in all of this was I was in the middle of planning for the purchase of extra seats on my license / more licenses. Needless to say this won't be happening now. Not a big deal really, I'm small beer in terms of raw numbers to those people. And I don't give many interviews.

Well I won't argue with the fact that you're upset about the scheme - many have been bit in the ass by that, and it sucks big time.

And yes, the pay-to-be-certified-to-sell-and-advertise-our-product feels really weird... I get that having good report with a company makes sense, but if there's too tight of a connection like this then bias gets in the way a great deal.

- especially with PUSH, I'd have to say - it looks like many of the certified trainers got a PUSH in the mail for "grassroots commentary". So as consumers we all have to factor in this "synergy" when we approach the reviews and whatnot online.

Oh really?

I didn't realise they'd stooped to bribing people for positive commentary but it doesn't surprise me in the least . . . and it's nice to have a reasonable conversation about these issues with someone on the internet who ISN'T a fully paid (up) member of the cult.

I wasn't being clear enough, I think - no, they're not paying people to advertise for them at all - it's the certification program itself that ties people too closely to the corporation, in my opinion.

Oh, you were clear enough.

It's my interpretation that receiving Push units for grassroots commentary crosses the line into inducement / corruption - but that would depend on the details of where those units end up, disclosure etc.