ahem...ahem... >cough< voice stealing & poly


    Mar 16 2006 | 7:24 am
    hello,
    10 messages only on the subject in the max archives, my god... And 5 or
    6 by me over the last 3 years.
    Well, this is, guess what, about the poly~ object (which i really
    absolutely love, yes yes) and its "steal mode" function. After founding
    this clear answer by Mr Z. himself :
    /
    /
    /"The poly~ voice-stealing algorithm compares the time at which each
    instance's thispoly~ object was marked as busy and uses the oldest
    instance. If your poly~ subpatcher doesn't mark an instance as busy by
    sending a 1 to thispoly~ then all bets are off because poly~ has no
    idea whether any particular instance is really busy or when such a
    transition to busy-ness (as opposed to "business") happened. In other
    words, busy-ness is a symbolic concept that is up to an instance
    subpatcher to define. If you have a patch that demonstrates that
    voice-stealing isn't working, please feel free to share it.
    /
    /David Z.",/
    i finally put the finger on what i wasn't understanding at all :
    When using steal, thispoly~ doesn't work well with signals to detect
    busy-ness but it works good with 0 and 1. Good. I now use 0 and 1. Good boy.
    I'm still longing, yet, to use poly~ to play a sound with a pre-defined
    duration and only to play it right, no pitch, no nothing :
    So i use a message with a duration defined by info~. It sends
    a note on when i bang it and a note off when the whole file is played.
    In no-steal mode, it's perfect. By the way, i'm using because
    of its ability to dispatch the voices, not for the note itself.
    In order to avoid Stefan Tiedje's bug (last september 2005
    http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54047&r id=0&S=c06e43ba5f8f9cdade5ad5119206c7bc&srch=poly%7E+steal#m sg_54047
    )
    supposed to be fixed in 4.5.7 (i'm still in 4.5.6), i'm using an [urn]
    to send random pitches. I think there's no problem with that because i
    only need velocities inside my player, pitches are here to be used by
    the dispatch function of and their note-offs are always
    correctly associated.
    Well well well, what i have noticed when in steal mode :
    When poly~ steals a voice (in my case, after filling the 6 first ones),
    it waits for this voice to be free before playing the sound again. Then
    the next sound is strange : it has exactly the same duration as the
    others but seems to play the last part of the sound, taken from the
    exact time when i asked to steal, untill this moment in the file... So
    it means, new sound on stealed voice = (last part (when steal asked) +
    sound file) minus the last part... Excuse my french.
    So any ideas about this problem will be absolutely great !
    By the way, it would be really really really really really really handy
    for every max users to have a complete folder of examples dealing with
    poly~ . Not only the poly-anti-click.pat, which is great, but does only
    give a glance at one trick and is fragile (you cannot tweak it too much
    to make it your own, it'll be broken). But a real example for any poly~
    methods, not just the tutorials : usage with poly object, usage with
    midinote message, usage with adsr~ , ways to do tricks with mute
    messages, and, last but not least, usage with S.T.E.A.L...
    best regards
    f.e

    • Mar 16 2006 | 4:26 pm
      Hi f.e
      I don't have any hints for you. I'd have to see your patch to help out.
      Do you have to use midinote? It sounds like note would be simpler.
      Ben
    • Mar 16 2006 | 7:30 pm
      This is a clear indication that the problem is in your patch. The voice
      allocation is only routing information. It cannot do anything else! If
      the information for playing a not is sent to a still playing note, you
      have to construct your patch in a way that it will deal with this. For
      example jump back to the beginning of a sample (if you want that), or
      make little fades or whatever your patch needs. The voice allocation
      cannot und must not know anything about you want it to do.
      Do not expect the voice stealing algorithm to send a note off of the
      voice which it steals!
      I'd like to have a even much more universal approach to the voice
      allocation. At the moment it is still very much bound to Midi thinking.
      I want to switch on a voice associated with a symbol instead of a number
      for example. Any drum sampler would be much clearer if I would send the
      message [Tom 2.5 pan filter] than being restricted to integers for the
      first two elements of the message. At the moment I have to translate it
      with colls.
      Especially the second parameter which is velocity in the Midi world
      should accept anything, but at least floats. To switch off, I would
      restrict it to the integer 0 (or maybe additionally a symbol "off". That
      would allow to switch on a voice with a float 0.
      Stefan
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