[Ann] New Pitch & Time Stretching object - elastic~
We're pleased to announce the release of elastic~ today! A pitch-shifting time-stretching looping Max object built around the same algorithm used by Cubase, Ableton, and Kontakt.
elastic~ works very much like the established groove~ object found in the standard MaxMSP library but with two totally independent controls: Pitch and Speed. The algorithm used is designed specifically for 'musical' material, allowing a natural sounding pitch-shift up to an octave above and below the original pitch of your sample, whilst playing back at up to double or half speed.
If you want to see the sort of thing possible with elastic~ have a look at the video demo at www.elasticmax.co.uk/#demo
Thanks,
Simon Adcock & Joe Jarlett
www.elasticmax.co.uk
Congratulations, this looks and sounds very nice! (at least from the demo)
So, this uses the Zplane algorithm? And how does it perform with
different material (e.g. rhythmic/beats vs. "musical")?
Dan
Do the pitch/time inlets accept signals?
well done!! it sounds fantastic from the demo clip!
it will be amazing if there were a phasor~ driven version too (like wave~ or play~)
we want to hear more!
ps. i think an object like this should be in msp distribution
Would it be possible to post some wave files of original and
processed samples? There have been many solutions for time/pitch
shifting. Having samples to compare is the only way to tell
which is better.
> There have been many solutions for time/pitch
> shifting. Having samples to compare is the only way to tell
> which is better.
Very good suggestion - at two tenners a pop, a nice
range of inputs and outputs for comparison would go
a long way toward making the sale, even though I
realise that it's probably a bit tough to figure out
what the sample materials should *be.*
A final question: pitch/time doesn't take signals, but
the loop point inlets *do?*
Dan Nigrin skrev:
> Also - what is the licensing model; if one purchases the external from
> you, are we free in turn to make commercial applications using it?
yeah, "non-commercial 'personal' license" doesn't seem to fit a lot of
people... I mean, gigging with a patch made with this would in a lot of
cases qualify as "commercial use". And building one-off patches for
clients is certainly also a commercial use, but a great deal of us do
that all the time - certainly the max users who are willing to pay extra
for more objects, non?
Simon and Joe, if there's anything more specific you can tell us
regarding the license it would be very much appreciated.
Andreas.
I would like to add that I don't mind taking a pretty significant cpu hit in 'signal rate mode'. Especially if it worked similarly to play~ or wave~.
The object look really cool though!
At 11:52 AM -0600 7/14/08, raja wrote:
>Whoops! Looks like both of my questions(CPU-usage and licensing
>model) are answered on the "Details" page of the site:
>
>http://www.elasticmax.co.uk/details.html
Thanks Raja, I missed that as well.
Dan
hi,
I would be interested into sound examples of veeeeeeeery strong stretched sounds -- like almost "frozen".
is this possible ?
thanks,
bd
Are there Max 4 versions of freeze-slide, freeze-tail and freeze-
denoiser?
Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
I got it.
It is really nice.
max5 crashes if you accidentally move, while it's playing, the loop
min/max out of range
On 15 Jul 2008, at 00:53, Dimitris Lambrianos wrote:
>
> I got it.
>
> It is really nice.
>
>
> --
> http://www.dimitrislambrianos.com/
>>Very good suggestion - at two tenners a pop, a nice
range of inputs and outputs for comparison would go
a long way toward making the sale, even though I
realise that it's probably a bit tough to figure out
what the sample materials should *be.*
I've uploaded a range of sound clips to www.elasticmax.co.uk/details let me know if you think I've missed any particular type of source material - could even email me a sound file if you like and I'll add it.
>>A final question: pitch/time doesn't take signals, but
the loop point inlets *do?*
Actually, no they don't, but I can't see there being a problem adding that, I'll look in to it.
>>max5 crashes if you accidentally move, while it's playing, the loop
min/max out of range
I can't recreate this on either my PC or Mac, if you could submit a more detailed bug report to the elasticmax forum (www.elasticmax.co.uk/forum) or to support@elasticmax.co.uk I'll look in to it straight away.
>>Simon and Joe, if there's anything more specific you can tell us
regarding the license it would be very much appreciated.
The license is a non-commercial 'personal' license. Meaning you are free to make patches for yourself (including gigging with them), but if you want to sell or distribute a patch (ie reselling Zplane's algorithm) then we would discuss a commercial license with Zplane - which we are happy to do on a project by project basis. They're a nice bunch of people, and Joe and I are certainly not interested in charging a prohibitive amount for a commercial license so I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. The full license terms are included in the download package, feel free to email us if you wish to see a copy before you purchase elastic~.
[livebuffer $1]
enable this if you want to record in to a buffer whilst playing it back through elastic~ at the same time
----
What happen if I send [livebuffer 1] ?
Does it looks for the recording point to avoid clicks ?
I'd like to listen to an example of the click it produces when recording and reading at the same time, in a pretty short buffer, while stretching and/or pitch-shifting it.
This object seems to sound great by the way.
I downloaded this external, and have been playing with it.
I must say the sound quality is quite good. But I can not seem
to be able to set the speed to anything slower than 0.5,
Is this a limitation of the external?
elastic~ documentation:
extraoctave $1 - enable this to allow pitch-shifting and time-stretching between 0.25 - 4.0 instead of 0.5 - 2.0. The algorhythm is much less efficient at these extremes though so watch your cpu levels!
Are there Max 4 versions of freeze-slide, freeze-tail and freeze-
denoiser?
Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
I have Max 5 installed. I'll reconstruct them in Max 4 and email them
to you in a few days.
Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Hi,
Fredrik Olofsson posted recently a Super Collider class to convert a
patch from 5 to 4.
You could try it...
i got it,
pro: it sounds really good
cons: too much cpu hungry here (ppc 1.67ghz),a patch with a couple of elastic~ playing in sync reach 32% cpu..difficult to think to build an efficient looper :(
i hope next versions improve performances
anyway a great object, well done!
I agree with Michele, the sound quality is great. But CPU
comsuption is not. On my Dell Inspiron Dual Core, each instance
of elastic~ costs me 6% CPU. That means a patch using 8 elastics
to loop audio is running close to 50%! It would be nice to see
this improved.
>> Wahooo, it looks great. But, not to be rude, it is bloody expensive for
one external.
Just for the record, we are unlikely to make any money from this! We've had to pay a LARGE upfront license fee to Zplane, plus a fixed amount per unit sold. The amount of hours and money Joe and I have put in to this (so far) means we will only break even if we sell hundreds of these objects. We just felt it would be an interesting and (hopefully) useful project.
>> pro: it sounds really good
good :-)
>> cons: too much cpu hungry
yeah, I guess that's why the algorithm sounds good! ;-) I'm not sure what we can do to improve this as the algorithm is closed (we can't edit it), perhaps some sort of caching system maybe? We will look in to it.
What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there's enough demand (?) we'll make an 'extreme' version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I've heard.
Simon
Hey,
sorry, as the author of xsample i have no interest on being on your list of non-bloody-expensive externals.
When not even large-scale institutions with incredible facilities are able to hit the paypal button nothing but frustration and retraction can be the reaction.
Please consider the work that is related to developing, publishing and maintaining stable and performant externals.
gr~~~
>Wahooo, it looks great. But, not to be rude, it is bloody expensive for
>one external.
>20 GBP --> 25 EUR --> 40$
>When you think of Olaf Mathes or Jasch (just to name a few) releasing
>hundreds of objects for free, the brilliant rtcmix~ by Brad Garton, the
>csound~ by Matt Ingals, the xsample~ of Thomas Grill and so on... Or
>even the very low priced Litter Pros by Peter Castine, or the Tap Tools...
> yeah, I guess that's why the algorithm sounds good! ;-) I'm not sure what we can do to improve this as the algorithm is closed (we can't edit it), perhaps some sort of caching system maybe? We will look in to it.
i admit that for certain situations (like a multi instances looper..4,5 players) i will accept loss in quality for lower cpu usage..i've read on zplane site that they have different algorithm and for example Live uses elastique efficient for this reason..
> What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there's enough demand (?) we'll make an 'extreme' version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I've heard.
yes please!a wave~ version will be AMAZING!
mic
----------------------------------------------------
> Wahooo, it looks great. But, not to be rude, it is bloody expensive for
> one external.
>
> 20 GBP --> 25 EUR --> 40$
well, i spend 25 euro and+ if i go out for some drinks! personally i'm quite happy to spend this money for a max object!! ;-)
Congratulations on this release and thank you for your effort. I sincerely hope you guys make some decent "change" out of it for yourself.
Regarding the demand:
I'd buy a bundle with the current version, the extreme version, the index version and the wave version of the object for 50 euros without a second thought. And probably for more too, depending on how efficient you manage to make it, other features, what the weather is like and whether or not I am wearing my funny hat.. :)
regards,
kjg
> What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there's enough demand (?) we'll make an 'extreme' version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I've heard.
>
> Simon
> I'd buy a bundle with the current version, the extreme version, the index version and the wave version of the object for 50 euros without a second thought.
yess!!for sure ;-)
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmppppppp
Hello Simon (and others)
Any news on the development of this external? Will there be any other incarnations like the "extreme" version or wave~ version? Is it still maintained?
If it is, I'll buy it. But again, I'd rather spend more on a bundle...
Also, any maxers want to share their experiences with this externals especially regarding stability?
regards,
kjg
Quote: kjg wrote on Thu, 17 July 2008 22:48
----------------------------------------------------
> Congratulations on this release and thank you for your effort. I sincerely hope you guys make some decent "change" out of it for yourself.
>
> Regarding the demand:
> I'd buy a bundle with the current version, the extreme version, the index version and the wave version of the object for 50 euros without a second thought. And probably for more too, depending on how efficient you manage to make it, other features, what the weather is like and whether or not I am wearing my funny hat.. :)
>
> regards,
> kjg
>
>
>
> > What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there's enough demand (?) we'll make an 'extreme' version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I've heard.
> >
> > Simon
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
I use it quite a bit. It is very stable and the sound quality is
excellent.
Quote: jeanfrancois.charles wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 16:15
----------------------------------------------------.
>
> And the Phase Vocoder examples should allow you veeeeeeeeery strong
> stretched sounds. I used the technique for the first time in a piece called
> "Plex" where I play back a 10 second sound (recorded live) over 6 minutes.
> J-F.
>
----------------------------------------------------
ooooo man! awesome :-D im going to give your objects a test run, JF, they sound very useful.
congrats on this object. a bit too pricey for me but i hope others use and enjoy it.
so..any news about further developement?..as i previously said this object has an amazing sound quality but it can be too much cpu hungry if you need to use several..i would like to modify mlr (monome applications) that is basically a 7 ch looper..7 elastiq objects are actually too much for my g4 powerbook :/
i just realized that [elastic~] is not capable of playing backwards, a feature i learned to love with the [groove~] object.
i bought [elastic~] today, will evaluate it's other features extensively tomorrow and post a report back here.
jrp