Any decent alternative to IRCAM SuperVP?
I used to use elasticx~ but it wasn't well supported. I then switched to the IRCAM SuperVP only to have it prompt me to reactivate it while I was on stage during a tour. That's completely unacceptable.
Anyone know of another high quality Max external that can do time stretching (or shrinking!)?
I came across something called DiracLE~ which I'll try but I'm wondering if there's a non "LE" version of this around?
I'm certain you're familiar with all of these:
grainstretch
http://www.timorozendal.nl/?p=456
Free and undemanding granular stretch/pitch external.
DiracLE and [pitch~] appear to be important to elasticx and Timo's external.
And JFCharles' spectral processing toolkit - while maybe heavy-handed for your purposes(?) - works beautifully.
And my own cheap and cheerful stretch-pitch grainer (attached)
HTH
Brendan
Thanks, Brendan, I've seen references to some of them (including yours) but I have not had the opportunity to test any of them --- I was happy with the SuperVP until I got that stupid activation popup in the middle of a performance. You have to wonder what the developers were thinking!
So what I need is the best quality, lowest latency external available that won't bite me in the middle of a performance. Cost (within reason) is not the primary concern.
Hmmm, a trawl through the forum archives might be needed then, to see what the opinions are. Are you doing live stretching, or just files from HD?
If you get a chance, get hold of and try J.F.Charles' stuff. Wow. The bundle is put together like a walk-through tutorial, and all you need to do is isolate the patch that you like the best, and use that one alone.
what you say about supervp makes me sad. Be sure to drop them an email before droping supervp !...
I have emailed them --- but unless they're willing to address that problem, I'll have to drop it --- can't afford that kind of stupid!
fair enough :s
vb.stretch~ ?
I'll check it out. A bit nervous about the statement:
"Some of these objects are still in a sort of "experimental" state. So please use with care."
Ircam superVp is perfect. if you use LICENSED SOFTWARE you will not have problems while on stage...
A.
@RATOX --- Are you trying to suggest that I was using unlicensed software? Just to be VERY CLEAR, the software WAS licensed and it DID fail on stage. The notion that licensed software will not cause problems is incredibly naive. See a blog article I wrote on precisely this topic from two years ago - http://thejamesons.com/cms/?p=37
The irony of the whole thing is that when I purchased the products, I explicitly expressed concern about how their subscription worked (see copy of my email below) and I was reassured that this wouldn't be a problem. The damn thing failed EXACTLY the way I was concerned it might.
@Vichug --- The possibly good news is that I woke up this morning to an email from the Ircam people who acknowledged that there was a protection bug in the code that was only fixed in January. They told me to download the fixed version but I can't because my subscription has expired (though after January so I should be entitled to that version anyway). I've let them know, and we'll see what happens.
-----------------------
From March 2013!
"I just ordered several of your products but I have not downloaded them or tried to activate them yet. I just read the message about these being a one-year activation and that after one year I will get subscription warning messages.
Does this mean that I could be in the middle of a live performance at a theatre and suddenly have your programs prompt me to renew?
If so, then I don't want them --- that's an unacceptable risk. Please let me know so that I can determine whether to go ahead and download the programs or cancel the order.
Thank you,
hah, good to know that they acknowledged the problem. Less so that one would have to renew subscription (hence pay again) for bugfixes... in "nomal" licensing business model, you would be allowed for all updates on things you buy not based on duration (1 year ? is that so ?) ; but on major version of things you have bought. The problem with Ircam is that they have so many different technologies, and they can't use some of the most widespread and traditional license protection schemes for reasons (for example iLock because iLock requires to pay for each technology you want to license and you have a limited number of licenses per iLock key so it would be both expensive for them and unpractical for user) ; so they have to be creative about their license protection model, but so far it's as experimental as "some" of their other technologies :p maybe more, because it's not their main area of interest... (that's how i understood the problem anyway)
@Ratox, just for my curiosity, are you a developer for Super VP ?
If he was, I would have expected him to have been aware of this license issue, turns out that IRCAM knew all about it and put out a fix in January 2014. He probably just assumed I was using cracked software and wanted to lecture me :-)
@Vichug --- the good news is that the IRCAM people responded, extended my expired subscription by 2 months so that I could pull down the updated version that presumably fixes this issue.
So I'm a happy camper and I'll probably even renew the subscription since they're clearly supporting their product and that counts for a lot. Had they used iLok, I would not have purchased in the first place. I live in fear of companies deciding to switch to dongle protection!
! :)
So what is the copy protection scheme ? I had understood this was iLok or a proprietary dongle from Flux for the co-developped products.
It's not iLok, at least not for SuperVP. They give you an activation code and based on what I've seen, it's one of those mechanisms where they can control the duration of the usage. But when I bought it, they assured me that although I might get a warning when I start Max, the license would really only stop me from installing updates after my subscription expired. However, the warning that I got with the (apparently broken) version didn't show up (unsurprisingly) until I actually loaded a patcher that contained the SuperVP external and it wanted me to put in a new activation code, something I couldn't possibly deal with in the middle of a performance.
Hello DHJDHJDHJ,
I'm interested in buying superVp. Are you still using it ? No more "unwanted" surprise ?
Any feedback would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Well, I ended up not using it on my last tour...was too nervous about it. However, I'll be starting rehearsals in a couple of weeks for our European tour and I'm going to try it again. The difficulty (and it's a once bitten twice shy concern) is that there's no way to know if it's ok permanently until, well, it breaks or not again, ever.
So ask me again in a year!
Ok ;)
Thanks !
@dhjdhjdhj : We just removed software activation/protection from ALL Max Objects on Ircam Forum including SuperVP objects
Wow --- that's GREAT news ---- does this apply to the older version that works with Max5?
How can I get it?
Also, may I ask what lead to this decision?
cannot access any downloads or registration for supervp .
where ?
Has anyone used the SuperVP objects from Ircam and have any thoughts on them?
Trying to work out if that price is all it costs or if I need to pay some other kind of subscription to actually use these objects?
Has Boulez ever given you a premium grade French look of disdain? Let me tell you it is pretty underwhelming. John Cage 4 Lyfe. Carole Tan friendliest IRCAM employee of all time.
@dhjdhjdhj
My experience - I have an older version of SVP. Didn't use it for a while (it's not quite the sound I'm after), and then when I opened it up recently, after the announcement of the removal of authorization, I found I was getting an "unlicensed" message every time. The plugin still worked when I dismissed the message, but it's a pain getting that whenever I run a patch containing SVP.
So I contacted Ircam. And after a fair bit of to-ing and fro-ing, it basically came down to if I wanted to get rid of the message, I would have to pay another subscription. Actually, they kind of avoided my questions and just kept pointing me to the subscription page.
I would have thought they could make an older version of the plugin available without the subscription message, but no. (Is that unreasonable?)
So the removal of authorization is a nice thing for new users, but tough luck for users of older versions.
@DAVIDESTEVENS Does that mean new users of SVP don't need to be subscribers?
Really want to try these out on a current project but can't find any solid answer as to whether any additional payment is needed
Have emailed Ircam but still waiting on a reply..
No, you'll still need to take a subscription to the item or package that you want. It's just that they've removed the authorization protection. (Someone correct me if I've got that wrong!)
Thanks David. That's a shame ... and quite confusing too.
Basically means the Ircam shop will let me go all the way up to hitting Pay without ever clearly saying that I won't be able to actually use the objects I'm about to pay for.
Or is it the case that the 60€ will get me one years access to the SuperVP objects?
Thanks for clearing this up David
I think that's correct - your €60 gets you a year's access. Additionally, the advantage of the authorization requirement being removed means that if after a year you decide you don't want or need any further updates, your old plugin will continue working ok (without the annoying alerts that I'm getting with my version of the plugin)
I should add that, on a quick test, I find the sound of the new time stretching options in Max7 to be similar to the sound of SVP, so maybe you don't need to spend the €60 (unless you're after some of the other control options in SVP)
Ah that makes sense - no updates without subscribing doesn't sound that bad.
Thanks for the tip re: the max 7 objects.
Do you think they somehow use the SuperVP algorithms?
I vaguely remember reading something about the algorithm that cycling uses in another thread, and if I remember correctly, it's not the same as SVP. I thought it sounded similar though, on the brief trial I've had time to make. And I still prefer the sound of elasticx~ above any other time stretching I've tried. Boo hoo :(
By the way - have you tried Brendan's time stretching gen patch? It's very good, though in my experience more computationally expensive than elasticx~.
Is there a windows version of supervp? looks like there might be one if you can compile it from c++ - any pointers would be great
still interested in alternatives to supervp. Not found one that's quite as good so far
thanks
a