Automatic Beat Generator

paranoia is its own reward. you really want to get into this and
waste everyones bandwidth? ;)

v a d e //

www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

Papermesh,
lets get back to you .

my advice would be define what your definition of "dynamic beats" is.
My intuition is that you want beats to change, evolve in a rather organic manner probaly in sync with your tempo.
now what kind of changes do you want produce on your beats and how ?

do you want to affect the amplitude, pitch , tempo, bpm , filters, slices, order of soundobjects or notes ...?

how do you want changes to occur through time ( order/number of events ) and space ( panning ) ?
how do you want your events to be triggered : algorythms, surface controls , or gestural controls through sensors ?
how many events do you want to trigger through time ?
do you want some randomness or total control or a play between the two ? very interesting and simple processes could emerge out of that . trigger this or that event only if this or that random number is picked.
i think you should start playing with one or two parameters , see how and when you can affect them , and little by little complexify your system .
check the matrixctrl object for triggering events or group of events through time.
once you have nice little patches you can concatenate them in poly~ objects so you can then produce layers of dynamic beats , which will become quickly interesting.

here are some extra links , do check the ones mentionned above cause they are really good ( pelado, modsquad...)

if you dont know them , chek Peter Elsea's tutorials : Max Tutors
http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ich/classes/mumt306/P.Elsea's_Max_Tutors/MaxTutors/

check out audiooo.com , its japanese, there are some nice beat oriented free patches , and a demo application , Cyan, that could give you an idea for surface controls.

check the slice~ object http://www.naotokui.com/blog/archives/2006/03/external_slice.html

and some patches made by twerk http://www.audibleoddities.com/twerk/index.php?p=sof

check the scrambler patch at http://www.xfade.com/max/scrambler/

check Monlake's sequencer on the share page https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share/Monolake

also check the reconfigurable grid of sixty-four backlit buttons at http://monome.org/
it is a hardware piece but it comes with patches and could give you ideas for potential interfaces.

there was a thread called " strategies for making crazy beats a while ago .
https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=18653&start=0
and there is of course more stuff but that should get you started.
good luck .

first of all another sorry for hijacking this thread, especially for the forum users.

`
Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Fri, 23 June 2006 05:25
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>
> There are a lot more than two Chinese interested in Max stuff.
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indeed, i didn't say that, it's just that only 2 people -so they told me- know it really well.

signapore, taiwan and hong kong are not comparable to the people's republic.

it's not 0.001%, more O.0000001% that's not the same even if it looks to be so.

i gave a little lecture at the conservatory in beijing and beida daxue, together with qinghua the best uni.
people are interested, but not skilled. there are a few exceptions paving the way. they'll get there. only not yet.

people are translating books like roads and things like that, give them a few years. still elite though.

anyway, you cath my drift...

damn, some more answering to do.

Quote: vade wrote on Fri, 23 June 2006 07:58
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> While I appreciate you explaining your position, id still have to
> disagree. Ill keep it short. Max is as elitist as learning to ride a bike
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vade, i understand what you're saying and of course, in your discourse, you're right.
but, reality is: max is used by educated above average intelligent people of middle class.
it is best known in academic circles or excentric alternative composers.
and 99% of the works made with it will not be eligeable for best rock song, nor best neo-impressionist painting.

it's a bike with built-in bike designer and reparation kit, only known by people who've been making mad bikes for decades.
that may be the most hideous comparison ever, but that's my point.

sorry again for bandwidth, hijacking and the extension of snobby european culture : )

> vade, i understand what you're saying and of course, in your discourse, you're right.
> but, reality is: max is used by educated above average intelligent people of middle class.
> it is best known in academic circles or excentric alternative composers.

in that case many things are elitists such as driving cars, owning a laptop, having a DSL connection to send emails, eating organic food , having health insurance, attending free universities,etc... and using max would be a small little privilege among all these things ?
i see what you mean but i dont think that it is exactly true if you look at how many people where using max ( and its family members susch as PD ) in the very early nineties and how many do now. there are more users every year which means it becomes more accessible and less "elitist". you see max everywhere in the art world, music world, architecture , club scene, rave parties ( elitism ?) and my guess is that we will see lots of netart emerging soon with the connectability to the net surely evolving
(by the way when will we see some browser interactions with max ?).
because it is gathering so many diverse disciplines i am not sure we can talk about elitism. it is true that it is still pricy for many of us but that is a flaw of capitalist societies and not necesarely of max's creators /developpers.

> and 99% of the works made with it will not be eligeable for best rock song, nor best neo-impressionist painting.
>

are'nt we lucky ? ;)

> it's a bike with built-in bike designer and reparation kit, only known by people who've been making mad bikes for decades.
> that may be the most hideous comparison ever, but that's my point.

yes but it is a bike that a frog can navigate while smoking a cigarette which's smoke astonishingly enough generates sheep like synthetic sounds and when a policeman pulls our dear frog over for speeding , the bike burps and all the kids clap their hands !

> sorry again for bandwidth, hijacking and the extension of snobby european culture : )

didnt max grow up in France in its early years ?;)

thanks karl for the links.....some of the things you described is what im after...im not looking to make just crazy randomness.....

so far i've mapped things to a controller to activate/deactivate sounds...i've got the tempo thing worked out ...im just trying to see how i can switch up midi patterns that mimic realistic drum sounds.....how i'm going to do that i dont know yet...i have a ton of patches to look through from all the links posted on this thread(thanks to everyone that contributed links)

after i edit these midi charts with a table i dont know if they should be somehow triggered or generated...

p.s. this thread has gone way out of control....originally my description of elitist was to point out some of the dickheads that employ this forum like mr. rossman. but i do agree with vade....i dont think max is elistist like everyone thinks it is.....i've never programmed in my life, but i can do this....im no expert, but i can learn it....

and finally..i just have to say i love this program...it has changed my life

Quote: nicnut@exegesisonline wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 11:22
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> I think he meant that a lot of the people on this list are elitist. Not
> the actual software.

110 is elite. software does not exist.

> You are on the right track, its about algorithmic music
> which can be
> very expressive as soon you put some playable controls on it.

the idea some of our automatik musik collegues that music
made by humans would _not be algorithmic is a serious misunderstandment.

eventually an improvision is more of or is a more complex
algorithm than a macines output could ever be.

- 110 (inner circle of the wannabe movement)

Roman Thilenius wrote:
> the idea some of our automatik musik collegues that music
> made by humans would _not be algorithmic is a serious misunderstandment.
>
> eventually an improvision is more of or is a more complex
> algorithm than a macines output could ever be.

The output of an algorithm means, all of its information is determined.
(Even if you use random/stochastic elements)
The musical part which adds meaning, is always based on human decisions
and those are not part of an algorithm unless you believe humans are
just very complex machines (I don't...)

Of course an improvising jazz musician or classical indian musician puts
out a great amount of structure purely based on algorithms, even
composition teaching often is teaching algorithms.

But the rules are just a frame to carry the music, its not the music
itself, its helpfull, but not even required...

Algorithms are the part that might connect us to an audience for two
reasons: they just might expect a wellknown frame and you could deliver
that without sacrificing the music. You could easily create very
consistent frameworks for the part which are not essential to your music
and then just concentrate on the musical decisions and that way make the
audience focus on the music itself, not on the frames.

Algorithms are very powerful tools for any musician. I agree, its not
just a computer music phenomenon...

Stefan

--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
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I once was part of a free-improvising group - really as free as one
could imagine, no stylistic direction (jazz, new-impro, whatever)
others than what we "felt" on a given moment..... no stylistic
"rules" of any kind, so to speak

___then i was able (I made this during a concert, part of a longer
tour, and only to make a girl laugh) - so i was able, by my playing,
to determine what the pianist would play.... I was able to tell "see,
he will play fast runs in the high register, now some cluster rumbles
in the very low, now just a few "silent" notes" and i was mostly
right..
if this is not a weak algorithm..... when , years later, i worked
with a neuronal network, it was much more fun

__yes, maybe it was not the best improvising group there ever was -
yes, at that point the feeling of the group was so so - and yes, i
stopped improvised music not long after

all the best

kasper
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Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com