Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
Dear all,
I'm about to buy a brand new laptop to use for Live Electronics performances with Max Msp (with my own heavy patches..), but I don't know what could be the best choice (essentially, Mac or Pc?).
During this year I've been having some problems while running some complex Max-Msp patches on my windowsXP SP2 AMD 3200+ based desktop PC (Asus A8N Sli Deluxe, 1Gb ram dual channel, 7200 rpm seagate HD, Asus GeForce 6600 GT VGA) and on some other PC notebooks, while they have been running flawlessly on a (borrowed) Powerbook G4 1,67 Ghz (OSX Tiger, 1Gb ram 100 Gb HD 5400 rpm etc..).
I am now confused about what to buy: a new MacBookPro or a PC Notebook with similar harware features (for example, a top quality Sony Vaio)?
Please, could you make some suggestion?
It's not a matter of money: I can afford a MacBook Pro 17" as well as a top-of-the-range Sony Vaio.
Thank you very much in advance.
Carlo
P.S.
My Audio interface is an RME Fireface 800 (firewire 400 or 800 port available).
On 28 Nov 2006, at 18:13, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
>
> During this year I've been having some problems while running some
> complex Max-Msp patches on my windowsXP SP2 AMD 3200+ based desktop
> PC while they have been running flawlessly on a (borrowed)
> Powerbook G4 1,67 Ghz (OSX Tiger, 1Gb ram 100 Gb HD 5400 rpm etc..).
I think that answers the question, doesn't it?
I'm obviously biased, as I've been a mac user for years. But I've
also simultaneously owned a P3 Vaio, and it was a pig. I got tired of
waiting for it to boot up in the end. From what I've read, until
recently there was a considerable speed advantage on WinTel laptops,
but I'm not sure if that's still the case now the new MacBook Pros
are out. And macs "just work". And there should be no problems with
your Fireface on the Mac. And you can always boot into Windows using
BootCamp on the mac if you really need to.
I'm sure someone will post the opposite point of view!
David
> And macs "just work". And there should be no problems with your
> Fireface on the Mac.
By the way, i own a Fireface and a MacbookPro (Core2Duo), and i'm having
slight problems with bus-powered operation of the Fireface. It won't
boot up when being bus-powered. Once powered up with external power, it
runs on firewire only, though. Haven't had the time to contact RME
whether this can be fixed.
greetings,
Thomas
--
Thomas Grill
http://grrrr.org
if i were you i'd totaly go with a commodore 64
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64
just check out the specs!!! it's a power horse :)
On 28 Nov 2006, at 19:40, Thomas Grill wrote:
>
>> And macs "just work". And there should be no problems with your
>> Fireface on the Mac.
> By the way, i own a Fireface and a MacbookPro (Core2Duo), and i'm
> having slight problems with bus-powered operation of the Fireface.
> It won't boot up when being bus-powered.
I think I've seen this mentioned here and perhaps on other lists in
relation to at least one other Firewire interface and the MacBook
range - they won't work on bus power, but are ok if you use the power
supply.
David
>>And macs "just work". And there should be no problems with your
>>Fireface on the Mac.
>By the way, i own a Fireface and a MacbookPro (Core2Duo), and i'm
>having slight problems with bus-powered operation of the Fireface.
>It won't boot up when being bus-powered. Once powered up with
>external power, it runs on firewire only, though. Haven't had the
>time to contact RME whether this can be fixed.
fireface 800 or 400??
they told me than (as far as 400 are concerned):
On the Macbook, there is not enough power. It will work with the Macbook
Pro and a brand new FF400 with slightly reduced power requirements.
__when i asked what "brand new" is:
Serial numbers from 22582670 have reduced requirements.
best
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
David Stevens skrev:
>
> On 28 Nov 2006, at 19:40, Thomas Grill wrote:
>
>>
>>> And macs "just work". And there should be no problems with your
>>> Fireface on the Mac.
>> By the way, i own a Fireface and a MacbookPro (Core2Duo), and i'm
>> having slight problems with bus-powered operation of the Fireface. It
>> won't boot up when being bus-powered.
>
> I think I've seen this mentioned here and perhaps on other lists in
> relation to at least one other Firewire interface and the MacBook
> range - they won't work on bus power, but are ok if you use the power
> supply.
This is because the new macs aren't powering the Firewire port properly.
But then again, they just work ;-) This is one of the reasons I haven't
.switched - I guess I am not the kind of person who would consider these
shortcomings "slight problems". Still, definitely the prettiest laptops
out there, and every bit as powerful as a top-of-the-line pc - they're
practically identical these days.
Oh, and don't buy a Sony Vaio. Every owner I know has been burned by
them, one way or another.
Andreas.
On 28 Nov 2006, at 21:23, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
> This is because the new macs aren't powering the Firewire port
> properly.
Hmm. On the other hand, I've never really trusted bus-powered
Firewire (and in any case, it all became rather academic when my
TiBook blew up its built-in port, forcing me to use a PCMCIA adaptor
which doesn't provide bus power at all). So I'd only buy Firewire
devices which had external power as an option.
As mentioned, you can always Bootcamp a MacBook and run Windows on it.
I'd also avoid Vaios; the hardware tends to be heavily proprietary
and to require customised Windows setups (according to some blogging
I came across a few days ago). If you are seriously thinking about a
PC laptop for audio, look to Alienware.
-- N.
(Planning to go and buy a MacBook Pro this week, and then see exactly
how many PowerPC externals my Max world depends on...)
nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
www.cassiel.com
Hello Thomas,
I would like to send you all my apologies as I realized I forgot to send you a
copy of my track "Ghost Phantom". Indeed, I discovered that the mail with the
CD is still here in my papers !
I will post it tomorrow, hoping that your address did not change during this
time (Barichgasse 21/18, 1030 Wien).
*
Also, I bought a Fireface 400 recently. I need a working laptop and did some
maxmsp tests with this sound card and a few computers (it's very difficult to
find serious information on laptop choice so I prefered trying by myself). With
a black Macbook (first generation with the Core "1" Duo processor), the computer
booted up correctly when the card was bus-powered. I haven't tried with a
Macbook Pro though ... Are you getting good low latency performance with it btw
?
Best regards,
Julien
Thomas Grill :
> By the way, i own a Fireface and a MacbookPro (Core2Duo), and i'm having
> slight problems with bus-powered operation of the Fireface. It won't
> boot up when being bus-powered. Once powered up with external power, it
> runs on firewire only, though. Haven't had the time to contact RME
> whether this can be fixed.
>
> greetings,
> Thomas
Interesting. How does this effect other devices like the DFG-1394, or
any other bus powered FW devices? Does that specific interface draw
more power than others? This is the first ive heard of this specific
issue.
I know Apple has switched to Intel firewire chipsets, but id imagine
they'd be properly supported.
Thanks,
v a d e //
www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info
On Nov 28, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
>>> And macs "just work". And there should be no problems with your
>>> Fireface on the Mac.
>> By the way, i own a Fireface and a MacbookPro (Core2Duo), and i'm
>> having slight problems with bus-powered operation of the Fireface.
>> It won't boot up when being bus-powered. Once powered up with
>> external power, it runs on firewire only, though. Haven't had the
>> time to contact RME whether this can be fixed.
>
>
> fireface 800 or 400??
>
> they told me than (as far as 400 are concerned):
>
> On the Macbook, there is not enough power. It will work with the
> Macbook
> Pro and a brand new FF400 with slightly reduced power requirements.
>
> __when i asked what "brand new" is:
>
> Serial numbers from 22582670 have reduced requirements.
>
> best
>
> kasper
>
> --
> Kasper T. Toeplitz
> noise, composition, bass, computer
> http://www.sleazeArt.com
>
>
Please ignore my previous mail as I intended to send it to Thomas Grill only !
(a stupid "reply to all" instead of "reply to" error !!!)
IF SOMEONE COULD DELETE IT, Thanks a lot
my apologies
-j
Based on my experience using intel, amd, and powerpc I now think generically.... I would say in list of priority this is how you should spend your money..
1.)Dual Core
2.)Cache size(over 1Mb makes a big diff)
3.)Clock Speed
4.)memory
Thanks for your answer.
Are you saying you had a PC noteboook before and you weren't happy about it?
I will check out Alienware Pcs.
As regards Sony Vaios I had some experiences with some of them during the
past eight months and they always worked very good with Max Msp and my
Fireface 800.
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Rothwell"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
>
> On 28 Nov 2006, at 21:23, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
>
>> This is because the new macs aren't powering the Firewire port properly.
>
> Hmm. On the other hand, I've never really trusted bus-powered Firewire
> (and in any case, it all became rather academic when my TiBook blew up
> its built-in port, forcing me to use a PCMCIA adaptor which doesn't
> provide bus power at all). So I'd only buy Firewire devices which had
> external power as an option.
>
> As mentioned, you can always Bootcamp a MacBook and run Windows on it.
>
> I'd also avoid Vaios; the hardware tends to be heavily proprietary and to
> require customised Windows setups (according to some blogging I came
> across a few days ago). If you are seriously thinking about a PC laptop
> for audio, look to Alienware.
>
> -- N.
>
> (Planning to go and buy a MacBook Pro this week, and then see exactly how
> many PowerPC externals my Max world depends on...)
>
>
> nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
> www.cassiel.com
>
>
>
Hi, how much do you know about this new Intel firewire chipsets Apple has been using on MacBook Pros?
Do they present any differences from the previous ones?
How about their performance with Max in real time, compared to a similar-hardware equipped PC?
Thank you
Carlo
P.S.
As regards RME Fireface 400, I'm quite sure that it requires more power than other bus-powered units: Firefaces are quite special pieces of gear, damn powerful units.
Anyway, I know of some people using M-Audio bus-powered units which must be turned on before starting their Apple notebooks, to be recognized by OSX.
----- Original Message -----
From: vade
To: maxmsp@cycling74.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
Interesting. How does this effect other devices like the DFG-1394, or any other bus powered FW devices? Does that specific interface draw more power than others? This is the first ive heard of this specific issue.
I know Apple has switched to Intel firewire chipsets, but id imagine they'd be properly supported.
Thanks,
v a d e //
www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info
> But everything becomes more stable, since the other core is taking
> care of the rest of the operating system.
Do you mean "more stable" or do you mean "more responsive"? What kind
of instabilities go away?
> Also in live situation I sometimes use another patch compiled as an
> application or collective, which then automatically uses the other
> core, effectively giving me double the power of my previous g4 PPC
> mac, even though the two patches must be run separately.
Two cores is not going to deliver 2 x performance, since there's only
one memory. (Not being a hardware export, I don't know offhand how
smart the various processor caches are.)
-- N.
nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
www.cassiel.com
On 30-Nov-2006, at 13:22, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
> how do you know for sure that Max uses only one core when running a
> patch, while the second core is only used when a Max collective or
> application are launched?
This has been documented on the list extensively.
-------------- http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ -------------
Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
Universal Binaries on the way
iCE: Sequencing, Recording &
Interface Building for |home | chez nous|
Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|
http://www.dspaudio.com/ http://www.castine.de
This is MacBook, not MacBook Pro, yes?
jb
Am 03.12.2006 um 00:37 schrieb Espen E. Sommer:
> Macbook coreduo 2ghz
I also got my laptop for live performances. It's a Core2duo t7200(2ghz) PC with a gig of ram and a 7200rpm hd. I used to have a desktop with an athlon xp 2000 CPU in it.
I've gone dual core, all my audio software were boosted to some degree but I don't see much of an performance gain in max msp at all... This is rather annoying because I was thinking that Max/MSP scheduler was going to take advantage of my duo cores...
I have not tried but running suitable patches inside Cubase(with pluggo) might double the performance as that sequencer takes full advantage of multiple CPU's.
Thinking about NI Reaktor, It also does not take the advantage of multiple cpus in standalone mode, but when loaded within cubase, the processor load goes halfway down. So If you have an instrument eating 20% CPU, load it into cubase and it drops to 10%.
I think other VST hosts taking advantage of this stuff would behave in the same way too.
Yes, a Macbook - still waiting for the MacBook Pro to offer something
more to justifly the higher price.
Vade: I guess for video work the improvement might be larger due to
an improved video card in the macbook pro compared to the powerbook, no?
E
Den 3. des. 2006 kl. 02.54 skrev Jeremy Bernstein:
> This is MacBook, not MacBook Pro, yes?
>
> jb
>
> Am 03.12.2006 um 00:37 schrieb Espen E. Sommer:
>
>> Macbook coreduo 2ghz
>
Matrix based effects run on the CPU, and have seen the most
significant performance boost in this case. Of course the high speed
FSB helps as well.
On Dec 3, 2006, at 5:47 AM, Espen E. Sommer wrote:
> Yes, a Macbook - still waiting for the MacBook Pro to offer
> something more to justifly the higher price.
>
> Vade: I guess for video work the improvement might be larger due to
> an improved video card in the macbook pro compared to the
> powerbook, no?
>
> E
>
> Den 3. des. 2006 kl. 02.54 skrev Jeremy Bernstein:
>
>> This is MacBook, not MacBook Pro, yes?
>>
>> jb
>>
>> Am 03.12.2006 um 00:37 schrieb Espen E. Sommer:
>>
>>> Macbook coreduo 2ghz
>>
>
Hi Vade,
what about any differences regarding CPU load using your Max Msp patches
between the brand new MacBook Pro and old Powerbook 1,67?
I just can't believe Max Msp doesn't work any better with these new MacIntel
quite expensive macbookpros..
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "vade"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
> Er.
>
> I have to totally disagree with this.
>
> I just upgraded from a 1.67 Ghz Powerbook G4 to a Dual 2.33 Ghz Makbook
> Pro. This has been the most significant performance upgrade I have ever
> had. This machine is amazing.
>
> Prior to this, with all effects enabled running dual channel video @
> 230x240@15fps on the G4 I would hit maybe 20-15 FPS depending on the
> phase of the moon and the energies in my chakra. Testing with Dual
> 720x480 ARGB DV @ 30FPS on the MPB I am NOT ABLE TO GET THIS LAPTOP TO
> GO BELOW 40 FPS WITH MATRIX AND SLAB CHAINS (in argb!). This is a huge
> huge huge increase.
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Espen E. Sommer wrote:
>
>> Hi, just to clarify, as far as I can see, my Macbook coreduo 2ghz has
>> the approx. same cpu utilization rate running the same patch in Max 4.6
>> as my old powerbook g4 1.67 ghz running max 4.5.7, so the upgrade to
>> intel is not at all an improvement regarding the raw cpu power when
>> using max. .....Except for the dual core aspect as discussed earlier
>> which will give you the opportunity to run two patches in two separate
>> instances of the max program (or a max standalone combo). And also some
>> added responsiveness because of the second core taking care of any other
>> operating system tasks.
>>
>> All in all I would not recommend the intel upgrade yet for mac users as
>> there is still some time before (if ever) all third-party externals you
>> are probably using will be ported which potentially gives you a lot of
>> upgrade problems (as I have had). And the cpu gain is zero unless you
>> run the dual core technique which is only usable for certain live
>> situations.
>>
>> ...but the intel macs are great for all other audio software which runs
>> a lot faster / better.
>>
>> As for testing the dual core technique Carlo, use for example the
>> Activity Monitor program and see for yourself what each core does at any
>> one time.
>>
>> E
>>
Hi,
could you tell me what laptop have you got? What brand and model?
I assume that the L2 cache is 2Mb, or is it 4 Mb?
Frontside bus speed?
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Batuhan"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:03 AM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
>
> I also got my laptop for live performances. It's a Core2duo t7200(2ghz) PC
> with a gig of ram and a 7200rpm hd. I used to have a desktop with an
> athlon xp 2000 CPU in it.
>
> I've gone dual core, all my audio software were boosted to some degree but
> I don't see much of an performance gain in max msp at all... This is
> rather annoying because I was thinking that Max/MSP scheduler was going to
> take advantage of my duo cores...
>
> I have not tried but running suitable patches inside Cubase might double
> the performance as that sequencer takes full advantage of multiple CPU's.
>
> Thinking about NI Reaktor, It also does not take the advantage of multiple
> cpus in standalone mode, but when loaded within cubase, the processor load
> goes halfway down. So If you have an instrument eating 20% CPU, load it
> into cubase and it drops to 10%.
>
> I think other VST hosts taking advantage of this stuff would behave in the
> same way too.
>
Hi Carlo,
It's one of those Verified-by-Intel laptops(essentially built on a Compal EL81). I have customised and arranged my priorities around my budget, and it was assembled on a Compal barebone laptop. So the good thing is that it does not have any non-standard or brand spesific hardware in it, I get all my drivers from intel.com.
It has a 4mb L2 cache, running on 667mhz bus.
I had very hard time finding a laptop that has a t7200 cpu with 4megs of cache, a 7200rpm hd and a gig of ram all together and not a mac and that has a reasonable price tag on it. So I really do not know if a laptop with such specs are available from known brands with reasonable prices right now.
Quote: carlo-laurenzi wrote on Sun, 03 December 2006 20:34
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
> could you tell me what laptop have you got? What brand and model?
> I assume that the L2 cache is 2Mb, or is it 4 Mb?
> Frontside bus speed?
>
> Carlo
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Batuhan"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:03 AM
> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
>
>
> >
> > I also got my laptop for live performances. It's a Core2duo t7200(2ghz) PC
> > with a gig of ram and a 7200rpm hd. I used to have a desktop with an
> > athlon xp 2000 CPU in it.
> >
> > I've gone dual core, all my audio software were boosted to some degree but
> > I don't see much of an performance gain in max msp at all... This is
> > rather annoying because I was thinking that Max/MSP scheduler was going to
> > take advantage of my duo cores...
> >
> > I have not tried but running suitable patches inside Cubase might double
> > the performance as that sequencer takes full advantage of multiple CPU's.
> >
> > Thinking about NI Reaktor, It also does not take the advantage of multiple
> > cpus in standalone mode, but when loaded within cubase, the processor load
> > goes halfway down. So If you have an instrument eating 20% CPU, load it
> > into cubase and it drops to 10%.
> >
> > I think other VST hosts taking advantage of this stuff would behave in the
> > same way too.
> >
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
CPU load is not an absolute measure of performance, it is relative,
neither is using utilities like top, etc. Search google for
explanations.
You'd be better off benchmarking an actual max/MSP app/patch, pushing
the limits until it breaks on your old system, and see how much
further you can push it on your new system
On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
> Hi Vade,
> what about any differences regarding CPU load using your Max Msp
> patches between the brand new MacBook Pro and old Powerbook 1,67?
> I just can't believe Max Msp doesn't work any better with these new
> MacIntel quite expensive macbookpros..
>
> Carlo
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "vade"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
>
>
>> Er.
>>
>> I have to totally disagree with this.
>>
>> I just upgraded from a 1.67 Ghz Powerbook G4 to a Dual 2.33 Ghz
>> Makbook Pro. This has been the most significant performance
>> upgrade I have ever had. This machine is amazing.
>>
>> Prior to this, with all effects enabled running dual channel video
>> @ 230x240@15fps on the G4 I would hit maybe 20-15 FPS depending on
>> the phase of the moon and the energies in my chakra. Testing with
>> Dual 720x480 ARGB DV @ 30FPS on the MPB I am NOT ABLE TO GET THIS
>> LAPTOP TO GO BELOW 40 FPS WITH MATRIX AND SLAB CHAINS (in argb!).
>> This is a huge huge huge increase.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Espen E. Sommer wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, just to clarify, as far as I can see, my Macbook coreduo
>>> 2ghz has the approx. same cpu utilization rate running the same
>>> patch in Max 4.6 as my old powerbook g4 1.67 ghz running max
>>> 4.5.7, so the upgrade to intel is not at all an improvement
>>> regarding the raw cpu power when using max. .....Except for the
>>> dual core aspect as discussed earlier which will give you the
>>> opportunity to run two patches in two separate instances of the
>>> max program (or a max standalone combo). And also some added
>>> responsiveness because of the second core taking care of any
>>> other operating system tasks.
>>>
>>> All in all I would not recommend the intel upgrade yet for mac
>>> users as there is still some time before (if ever) all third-
>>> party externals you are probably using will be ported which
>>> potentially gives you a lot of upgrade problems (as I have had).
>>> And the cpu gain is zero unless you run the dual core technique
>>> which is only usable for certain live situations.
>>>
>>> ...but the intel macs are great for all other audio software
>>> which runs a lot faster / better.
>>>
>>> As for testing the dual core technique Carlo, use for example the
>>> Activity Monitor program and see for yourself what each core
>>> does at any one time.
>>>
>>> E
>>>
>
Thanks for the explanation Vade,
but I would like to hear from you in detail (apart from video performance,
which I heard is far better now) how's going with Max Msp audio performance
(using a firewire audio interface) on your new MacBookPro, and a comparison
with your old G4 1,67.
(I am interested in buying a MacBookPro, but before I do it I need to hear
how's going from people who already had tested it thoroughly with Max.)
Thank you very much in advance.
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "vade"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
> CPU load is not an absolute measure of performance, it is relative,
> neither is using utilities like top, etc. Search google for explanations.
>
> You'd be better off benchmarking an actual max/MSP app/patch, pushing the
> limits until it breaks on your old system, and see how much further you
> can push it on your new system
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
>
>> Hi Vade,
>> what about any differences regarding CPU load using your Max Msp patches
>> between the brand new MacBook Pro and old Powerbook 1,67?
>> I just can't believe Max Msp doesn't work any better with these new
>> MacIntel quite expensive macbookpros..
>>
>> Carlo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "vade"
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: Best Notebook for live performance with Max?
>>
>>
>>> Er.
>>>
>>> I have to totally disagree with this.
>>>
>>> I just upgraded from a 1.67 Ghz Powerbook G4 to a Dual 2.33 Ghz
>>> Makbook Pro. This has been the most significant performance upgrade I
>>> have ever had. This machine is amazing.
>>>
>>> Prior to this, with all effects enabled running dual channel video @
>>> 230x240@15fps on the G4 I would hit maybe 20-15 FPS depending on the
>>> phase of the moon and the energies in my chakra. Testing with Dual
>>> 720x480 ARGB DV @ 30FPS on the MPB I am NOT ABLE TO GET THIS LAPTOP
>>> TO GO BELOW 40 FPS WITH MATRIX AND SLAB CHAINS (in argb!). This is a
>>> huge huge huge increase.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Espen E. Sommer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, just to clarify, as far as I can see, my Macbook coreduo 2ghz has
>>>> the approx. same cpu utilization rate running the same patch in Max
>>>> 4.6 as my old powerbook g4 1.67 ghz running max 4.5.7, so the upgrade
>>>> to intel is not at all an improvement regarding the raw cpu power
>>>> when using max. .....Except for the dual core aspect as discussed
>>>> earlier which will give you the opportunity to run two patches in two
>>>> separate instances of the max program (or a max standalone combo).
>>>> And also some added responsiveness because of the second core taking
>>>> care of any other operating system tasks.
>>>>
>>>> All in all I would not recommend the intel upgrade yet for mac users
>>>> as there is still some time before (if ever) all third- party
>>>> externals you are probably using will be ported which potentially
>>>> gives you a lot of upgrade problems (as I have had). And the cpu gain
>>>> is zero unless you run the dual core technique which is only usable
>>>> for certain live situations.
>>>>
>>>> ...but the intel macs are great for all other audio software which
>>>> runs a lot faster / better.
>>>>
>>>> As for testing the dual core technique Carlo, use for example the
>>>> Activity Monitor program and see for yourself what each core does at
>>>> any one time.
>>>>
>>>> E
>>>>
>>
>
Espen E. Sommer wrote:
> All in all I would not recommend the intel upgrade yet for mac users as
> there is still some time before (if ever) all third-party externals you
> are probably using will be ported which potentially gives you a lot of
> upgrade problems (as I have had). And the cpu gain is zero unless you
> run the dual core technique which is only usable for certain live
> situations.
Depends on how much you actually create dependencies for 3rd party
externals. Its almost always possible to patch externals as
abstractions. The most important externals are ported.
(I just switched from vbap to my own construction which should run in
any future version of Max)
I'd wonder which externals are used out there and which are the
dependencies which are not ported yet...
(could be fun to add some abhaXions to my collection...)
Collections which are not easily (or not at all) hackable as
abstractions are FTM, some CNMAT externals, fiddle~/analyzer~ maybe
multiouts~, Litter....
But those are well maintained anyway and often include source code.
Any others (ported or not ported) which are essential for survival?
(I am sure there are some jitter related ones...)
It could be also worth to port externals to Java instead of porting the
c-code. That would make them switch proof for the future, they should
immediately work with a Linux version of Max.
Stefan
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Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
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I agree entirely. I was worried about making the jump
because laziness has made me something of a 3rd party
object junkie.
But having done it, I've found that a) it's a useful
and informative exercise to replace whatever 3rd party
stuff you can withyour own abstractions, and b) most
3rd party developers are pretty approachable when it
comes to suggesting they port their stuff for UB.
It's like the move from Classic to OS X all over again
- a bit scary when you look at it from the outside,
but actually, no big deal once you dive in,
cheers
Roger
--- Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> Espen E. Sommer wrote:
> > All in all I would not recommend the intel upgrade
> yet for mac users as
> > there is still some time before (if ever) all
> third-party externals you
> > are probably using will be ported which
> potentially gives you a lot of
> > upgrade problems (as I have had). And the cpu gain
> is zero unless you
> > run the dual core technique which is only usable
> for certain live
> > situations.
>
> Depends on how much you actually create dependencies
> for 3rd party
> externals. Its almost always possible to patch
> externals as
> abstractions. The most important externals are
> ported.