Binaural Beats
I was wondering if anyone has experimented with binaural beats in max?
I'm quite interested in stimulating different moods by altering brain waves.
Binaural recording is used to create a realistic 3d sound image in headphones, look up binaural microphones, logic has a nice binarual panning feature. Doesnt particularly "alter brain waves" in any way that normal panning doesn't other then to more accurately trick your brain into hearing things in a realistic space. you might be thinking of something else, ive seen some recordings where they added alpha or theta waves or some other new agey mumbojumbo into ambiant music and things like that.. which was supposed to change your mood.
Sure, why not:
Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 16 December 2008 06:10
----------------------------------------------------
> Binaural recording is used to create a realistic 3d sound image in headphones, look up binaural microphones, logic has a nice binarual panning feature. Doesnt particularly "alter brain waves" in any way that normal panning doesn't other then to more accurately trick your brain into hearing things in a realistic space. you might be thinking of something else, ive seen some recordings where they added alpha or theta waves or some other new agey mumbojumbo into ambiant music and things like that.. which was supposed to change your mood.
----------------------------------------------------
I'm not that interested in the panning for the moment. It's the new agey mumbojumbo I want to know more about.
I'm pretty sure there's a fair bit of evidence to back it up too
fairesigneaumachiniste - I've done something similar to your patch but I'd like to know exactly what I'm doing. I have a bad feeling that I'm going to wake up one day and try to kill everyone in my house because I put 505Hz instead of 504 in the left channel.
A little table about the different brainwave frequencies. I doubt you're going to wake up and try to kill people. ;)
Lots of information here (and good software too - Windows, but runs
fine under Parallels) ...
There's also a fairly informative blog ...
HTH
David
On 16 Dec 2008, at 14:33, fairesigneaumachiniste wrote:
HTH
David
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats#Brain_waves
>
> A little table about the different brainwave frequencies. I doubt
> you're going to wake up and try to kill people. ;)
Could someone either remind me or point to where this is in the docs ...
There's a version of the replaceable argument that generates a unique
value everytime the patcher containing it is created. I've never
actually used it, but I remember reading about it on the forum quite a
few times, and I've seen examples of patches that use it - and I
_thought it was #0 ((#1 on objects requiring the argument inside the
subpatch, and #0 as the argument on the containing subpatch.) I tried
that, and I'm obviously wrong!
I couldn't find a reference to #0 in the docs or the forum, so I'm
flummoxed. What's the answer!?
thanks
David
On 16 Dec 2008, at 15:30, David Stevens wrote:
> I couldn't find a reference to #0 in the docs or the forum, so I'm
> flummoxed. What's the answer!?
#0 definitely works, but only as a prefix. #0_fooble good. fooble_#0
bad.
Oh, in Max 5, it probably doesn't work in comment objects (since #1
and friends don't).
-- N.
Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net
I was using it wrongly - for some reason (duh) I was thinking that the
#0 argument had to be one of the entered arguments in the enclosing
patcher, but of course it doesn't; only the objects in the enclosed
subpatcher need the #0. Got that working now, it does what I want,
and it turns out that creating extra buffers inside a poly~ on the fly
(by increasing the number of voices) whilst audio is on doesn't crash
max (which is what I was concerned about).
thanks
On 16 Dec 2008, at 16:23, Nick Rothwell wrote:
> On 16 Dec 2008, at 15:30, David Stevens wrote:
>
>> I couldn't find a reference to #0 in the docs or the forum, so I'm
>> flummoxed. What's the answer!?
>
> #0 definitely works, but only as a prefix. #0_fooble good. fooble_#0
> bad.
>
> Oh, in Max 5, it probably doesn't work in comment objects (since #1
> and friends don't).
>
david humpage - your patch works really well, really like the sea generation. thanks for posting it.
I was wondering if there were any specific frequencies to use. For example what would be the difference of using 500Hz in the left and 505 in the right, and replacing them with 100Hz and 105Hz? I think this means that both settings will activate the same brain wave frequency (5Hz)
Is this correct?
Some people say that the carrier frequency has an effect, others that
it doesn't. A lot of what Holosync ( http://www.centerpointe.com/articles/
) does is based on the idea that lower carrier frequencies have a
more powerful effect. Personally, I would rather listen to a low
pitched tone pulsing than a higher pitched one. YMMV.
David
On 16 Dec 2008, at 17:30, Mike S wrote:
>
> david humpage - your patch works really well, really like the sea
> generation. thanks for posting it.
>
> I was wondering if there were any specific frequencies to use. For
> example what would be the difference of using 500Hz in the left and
> 505 in the right, and replacing them with 100Hz and 105Hz? I think
> this means that both settings will activate the same brain wave
> frequency (5Hz)
>
> Is this correct?
> --
> http://www.myspace.com/machinesleet
> david humpage - your patch works really well, really like the sea
> generation. thanks for posting it.
>
> I was wondering if there were any specific frequencies to use. For
> example what would be the difference of using 500Hz in the left and
> 505 in the right, and replacing them with 100Hz and 105Hz? I think
> this means that both settings will activate the same brain wave
> frequency (5Hz)
>
> Is this correct?
Yeah, a 5Hz difference will give you a 5Hz beat regardless of carrier
register; but as David Stevens says, it's more relaxing listening to
lower frequencies, and the Holosync stuff (for instance) certainly
works at that end.
Even expensive commercial "sea" is almost always too fast and single-
layered, ie doesn't take account of the fact that waves usually come
in at an angle - so you'll hear waves breaking off to one or
other side when they aren't masked by the one in front, dependent on
relative size (interesting interference pattern!)
Loadsa scope for research here...
dh
Quote: david stevens wrote on Tue, 16 December 2008 07:53
----------------------------------------------------
> Lots of information here (and good software too - Windows, but runs
> fine under Parallels) ...
>
> http://www.transparentcorp.com/
>
> There's also a fairly informative blog ...
>
> http://www.mindupdate.com/
>
> HTH
>
> David
>
----------------------------------------------------
Hey David, this is pretty interesting stuff. So if I use
your posted patch and experiment with these frequency
ranges...
Frequency range Name Usually associated with:
> 40 Hz Gamma waves Higher mental activity, including perception, problem solving, fear, and consciousness
13–40 Hz Beta waves Active, busy or anxious thinking and active concentration, arousal, cognition
7–13 Hz Alpha waves Relaxation (while awake), pre-sleep and pre-wake drowsiness
4–7 Hz Theta waves Dreams, deep meditation, REM sleep
< 4 Hz Delta waves Deep dreamless sleep, loss of body awareness
I can create recordings that help put me in a deep
meditative state. I will have to give this a try.
Thanks David S, this patch looks very interesting.
It is missing some objects though: Lchunk, list-interpolate,
ububutton2.
It would be interesting to compose a piece that incorporates
these signals in it. Does anyone know of any composers/artists
that have done this already?
OK - Lchunk is part of LObjects, and list-interpolate is part of the
SNMAT externals (I think). ububutton2 is an abstraction I made, a
shell around ubumenu with a bit of added functionality ...
There's lots of (variable) new agey music with binaural beats under
it. I don't know of anyone who's done anything more artistic with it.
You have to remember that binaural only works on headphones.
Having said that, a lot of the things I used to do were based around
buffer lengths rather than beats/bar lengths. Which means that there's
a slow pulse rather than a distinctive rhythm. I found that that
produces pretty much the same kind of effect )not that I measured my
brainwaves whilst listening!) - the idea is that the brainwaves tend
to entrain to any repeated stimulus over time, so "music with
repetitive beats" and pulsing drone music both fit the bill. (Ever
noticed the beat frequencies produced by a good tibetan singing bowl? )
here's the missing subpatch
On 17 Dec 2008, at 16:34, Anthony Palomba wrote:
>
> Thanks David S, this patch looks very interesting.
> It is missing some objects though: Lchunk, list-interpolate,
> ububutton2.
>
> It would be interesting to compose a piece that incorporates
> these signals in it. Does anyone know of any composers/artists
> that have done this already?
>
hmm headphones only you say.. ill have to try it out again.. I just remember one of my college professors lending me an ambiant cd after he found out i was into making music, and it had all this stuff about inducing theta waves blah on the label, and I listened to the sounds of babbling brooks and cheezy synth pads for most of the duration of the cd and all I felt was tired and skeptical. but I didn't read anything on the cover about headphones, maybe thats why it didn't seem to do much that a normal cd of cheezy babbling brook dx7 synth pads wouldn't have done on its own. Ill have to try it out in headphones with one of these patches.
also is there any real psychological studies that anyone knows about this, Id be curious to see real statistical double blind placebo type data on this.
ps. I like binaural panning, didn't know this was also known as binaural. my appologies.
On 20 Dec 2008, at 22:42, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
>
> also is there any real psychological studies that anyone knows about
> this, Id be curious to see real statistical double blind placebo
> type data on this.
have a look for links at the Centerpointe site, the transparent corp
site (links posted earlier in the thread, but if you can't see them,
I'll repost) And also check out the Monroe Institute site. I think
you'll find most links to studies via transparent corp, but Monroe
have done a load of research into their version of binaural (uses a
low frequency to induce/enhance trance, and then introduces specific
higher frequency binaurals to create a deeply relaxed, yet alert,
state. Be warned - they're into OOBs and remote viewing and suchlike).
There's also other info out there of varying degrees of trustworthinss
- might be worth Googling "brainwave synchronisation" "binaural beats"
or similar phrases.
David
just curious, as far as my original misinterpretation of binaural:
does anyone know of any abstractions or externals that do a good job of headphone 3d binaural panning/distance? Id love to have something like logics binaural channels inside max. I have spat from ircam, which I wasn't that happy with, it does a decent job of reverb and placement, but not that convincing and realtime panning didn't work so well, and the interface left alot to be desired. I feel like Ive seen something out there that does this but I cant remember what. I don't necessarily need reverb or doppler, though those things would be nice, but mainly just the 3d panning and distance.
there is a binaural abstraction at: http://www.eude.nl/maxmsp
which might do what you are looking for.
the keyword is hrtf (head related transfer function), but you probably
knew that already.
hth
hans
www.hans-w-koch.net
Am 21.12.2008 um 06:48 schrieb Nicholas C. Raftis III:
>
> just curious, as far as my original misinterpretation of binaural:
>
> does anyone know of any abstractions or externals that do a good job
> of headphone 3d binaural panning/distance? Id love to have
> something like logics binaural channels inside max. I have spat
> from ircam, which I wasn't that happy with, it does a decent job of
> reverb and placement, but not that convincing and realtime panning
> didn't work so well, and the interface left alot to be desired. I
> feel like Ive seen something out there that does this but I cant
> remember what. I don't necessarily need reverb or doppler, though
> those things would be nice, but mainly just the 3d panning and
> distance.
> --
> -=ili!ili=- www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-
This seems like a good post to ask again, why is it such a hard thing to
make a holophonic faker?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:27 AM, hans w. koch wrote:
> there is a binaural abstraction at: http://www.eude.nl/maxmsp
> which might do what you are looking for.
> the keyword is hrtf (head related transfer function), but you probably knew
> that already.
>
> hth
> hans
>
> www.hans-w-koch.net
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 21.12.2008 um 06:48 schrieb Nicholas C. Raftis III:
>
>
>
>> just curious, as far as my original misinterpretation of binaural:
>>
>> does anyone know of any abstractions or externals that do a good job of
>> headphone 3d binaural panning/distance? Id love to have something like
>> logics binaural channels inside max. I have spat from ircam, which I wasn't
>> that happy with, it does a decent job of reverb and placement, but not that
>> convincing and realtime panning didn't work so well, and the interface left
>> alot to be desired. I feel like Ive seen something out there that does this
>> but I cant remember what. I don't necessarily need reverb or doppler,
>> though those things would be nice, but mainly just the 3d panning and
>> distance.
>> --
>> -=ili!ili=- www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-
>>
>
>
There's also the whole visual component, one manifestation is described here:
It's pretty straightforward to make pulsing visuals with precise timing using Jitter, like manipulating video (brightness etc.) to emulate pulses. All seizure warnings should probably go double if you combine the visual with the audio... please be careful.
Where is this patch by David Humpage? I am very interested.
There is the information about Binaural music .If you interested,then read this blog.Lots of information here about Binaural Beats and How do binaural beats work.