C74 and opengl...

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Enrico, your entire contribution to this forum amounts to... this post.
I'm just replying because your "comment" messed up the forum's homepage.

Is this a taboo topic for c74?

Hi, Luca. Here are my two cents, so take it for what it's worth (probably less than that)...

I don't think this is a taboo topic, but I would say that the chances of getting a useful response might be correlated to the way your post is perceived. And, in this case, when in the introductory paragraph you say that "this framework is so out of date and the implementations are so bad documented, that it’s not worth to continue with this software", you really set the tone, independently of the valuable criticism that may follow. And, even then, expressions such as "the worst thing ever… This editor is just useless", "That’s a horrible design" and "horrible complicated implementation" aggravate it.

As an example, read the following topic, also related to Jitter and its OpenGL implementation, and notice the tone and the degree of participation of other members of this community and of Cycling74's employees:
https://cycling74.com/forums/curious-about-your-opinions-on-jitter-vs-touch-designer-vs-unreal-vs-unity-U

Now, without any kind of irony, it seems that you may have reached some of the limitations of Jitter and might be better served with another graphics framework or development platform, such as a game engine. The Max/Jitter platform is not (and cannot be), after all, a universal solution. It has its strengths and weaknesses, as any other. There are types of projects where it excels and others where it's not the right tool for the job at all.

Anyway, happy patching (or equivalent)! ;-)

Hmm sadly to hear (about OP info). Just, i`m not much dig into max yet, but planned learn it exactly in visual\motion graphics direction. Would be good to develop\support this things indeed.
I hope that all not so bad though.

@Pedro my tone is a little bit rude and not very constructive, I have to apologize for that. On the other hand, this is my point of view :-)
And I have never lost so much time trying to fix simple things, so the frustration is big.

I don't like to work with frameworks where I have to gather all the information in a forum, look all the time for hacks, because some things are working and others don't, or are just not implemented. If I pay for something I expect at least a decent documentation.

About OpenGL: I can't find any statement from C74 about what's gonna happen in the future and when we can expect an update. For me this is crucial and frustrating.

"The Max/Jitter platform is not (and cannot be), after all, a universal solution."
I don't agree with that. Why can't we have an up to date software with decent docs?

I think C74 stopped developing the OpenGL part and they switched to more simpler solution like jit.gl.pix, so novice users can program on the gpu too. Which I personally like for little patches but it's not sufficient for bigger task. Also you have to learn another syntax and porting code from standard languages is always a mess. I think this is just a workaround and a commercial strategy from C74. But at the end they will lose all the more advanced users.

Kind of public "roadmap" to give users some info about Cycling74 dev team plans will be great, indeed.

To clarify things a bit: [jit.gl.pix] is essentially producing OpenGL pixel shader, so it is a part of the OpenGL. And you can still use "typical" shaders via [jit.gl.shader] if you prefer - I mentioned that, because this is an example of something, what is very good in Max: you may choose the technology which is more suitable for you.

Personally I see gradual progress in the OpenGL implementation in Jitter, but some of your remarks appeal to me. Better editor for shader code will be very useful. The same for documentation (especially about gen... and gen~ in audio domain). Better access to the geometry (geometry shaders...) too.

There is another problem with Jitter, but it is typical for nearly all patching systems (not to the Max itself) - some problems and tasks are very hard to express visually without boring additional effort. Good example are CV algorithms for motion tracking - basically it is much more easier to implement them by traditional coding (even creating new externals handling these tasks), not as patches.

" [jit.gl.pix] is essentially producing OpenGL pixel shader, so it is a part of the OpenGL."
I'm aware of that thanks. Don't get me wrong, gl.pix is definitely a cool feature. But in my opinion it would be better to get on times with opengl, and let the community develop nice features, then having another "workaround" for beginners.

"Better editor for shader code will be very useful"
I was using notepad++ (pc) and the glsl extension and then I have a metro at 500 ms and a read "yourshader.jxs" message to jit.gl.shader. works..

About the docs... well I really hate when companies promotes new features but they don't provide a decent documentation. It's like saying.. I don't give a s*** if you lose 1-2 weeks trying to find out stuff. I appreciated my time and if I'm working on a commercial project, my client will not pay me for this, but I still have to do it.

"Better access to the geometry (geometry shaders…) "
I have used geom shaders without any problems... may be they work on pc only?

"Good example are CV algorithms for motion tracking – basically it is much more easier to implement them by traditional coding (even creating new externals handling these tasks), not as patches"
That's the point... we can't do this kind of stuff because we need atomic counters and compute shader OpenGL 4.x. More or less every software out there has this GL functionality and if not, they provide a way to implement this functionality by yourself (like JUCE f.e.)

we have plans to update OpenGL. we don't have a timeline to share.

if you have patches that crash unexpectedly, and steps to reproduce i'm happy to look at them.

if you have specific questions on specific functionality, i'm happy to do my best to answer them.

jit.gl.pix is absolutely not a workaround for beginners.