Cannot set grain duration in munger~'s oneshot mode
Hello,
I can't achieve control of duration when munger~ is set in oneshot
mode. Neither grain size nor any envelope parameter (attack, decay,
release) seem to have much influence.
For instance, I have tried a setting with a 60000 milliseconds delay
and a long release time (5000 ms). I have also tried with a
several-seconds long decay and a sustain of 1.0.
All the trials of the oneshot mode were made with record off (after
having filled the buffer of course).
Any suggestion?
By the way, this great object would be even greater if one could link
it to a buffer~ and a waveform~ (just to set position).
Thank you in advance.
Roald Baudoux
hello,
but what is the oneshot mode ?
I just read the entire help of munger~
and did not see this mode
thanks
eryck
it's one of teh new features in the new (don't know the date of
release) munger - I would say 6 months old...
the one with the multichannel feature
___as for the duration question - you mean the grain size....???
yes, in one shot i don't know how it works
best
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
[[t's one of teh new features in the new (don't know the date of
release) munger - I would say 6 months old...]]
...Oneshot, multichannel!?! Ok!, mine is from october 2005, PeRColate 0.9 beta 5 etc...and on colmubia.edu, I don't see newer objects.
what am I missing ? another link for the download maybe, please ???
24/10/05 (16:02)
most certainly downloaded from the percolate web page
donwload also teh help files (and the exta...) - it' sall there
kasper
hi roald,
> I can't achieve control of duration when munger~ is set in oneshot
> mode. Neither grain size nor any envelope parameter (attack, decay,
> release) seem to have much influence.
the ADSR times will work, but only if the delaylength is long enough.
if the ADSR times add up to longer than 1/3rd the delaylength, then the
grain size will be truncated (simply because there won't be enough
sample in the buffer to create the grain size requested).
> For instance, I have tried a setting with a 60000 milliseconds delay
> and a long release time (5000 ms). I have also tried with a
> several-seconds long decay and a sustain of 1.0.
make sure that the delaylength (with message "delaylength_ms 60000") is
set, *in addition* to the argument which sets the maximum delaylength
allowable. the argument and delaylength are not the same things;
delaylength is actually dynamic, and can be modulated in performance.
> By the way, this great object would be even greater if one could link
> it to a buffer~ and a waveform~ (just to set position).
ah yes, that would be great, and i have it partially working, but it's
not ready. i hope to get that up this summer.
best,.
dan
>
> 24/10/05 (16:02)
>
> most certainly downloaded from the percolate web page
>
> donwload also teh help files (and the exta...) - it' sall there
It seems that the windows version does not contain the oneshot and
multichannel features.
The munger version for mac on the percolate page (just downloaded it
again) has a creation date of oct/11/2005. The help file contains
oneshot mode but doesn't say anthing about a multichannel feature.
I'd be very curious to find out about this though. Seems like Kasper
has a newer version. Maybe a beta?
thanks
Bernhard
________________________
http://loibner.cc
The Windows port of PeRColate is based on 'older' code. I just
downloaded it once, did the port and put it online. AFAIK Luke and Dan
are still working on their original code it needs a new Windows port
whenever they change something in the Mac version. When I made the
Windows port I told them that they could use my altered code because it
still compiled on Mac, so _maybe_ the current Mac version can be
compiled on Windows, but I doubt this.
Olaf
PS: I just checked the percolate site, they are at v0.9beta5, my windows
port is v0.9b4...
> Seems like Kasper has a newer version. Maybe a beta?
>
>
no no no
i downloaded it - there is a sub patcher in the help file, which
tells you (almost ?) all about the multichannel features
and since I have used this feature (on a 7 points PA) live many
times, i can tell you it works, and is REALLY great
___ all those years, and still happy with my munger ~ !
best
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
> i downloaded it - there is a sub patcher in the help file, which
> tells you (almost ?) all about the multichannel features
> and since I have used this feature (on a 7 points PA) live many
> times, i can tell you it works, and is REALLY great
Sorry mate, no subpatch in my version of the .help file. I would
really like to check it out so maybe you can send me yours.
thanks
Bernhard
________________________
http://loibner.cc
>>i downloaded it - there is a sub patcher in the help file, which
>>tells you (almost ?) all about the multichannel features
>>and since I have used this feature (on a 7 points PA) live many
>>times, i can tell you it works, and is REALLY great
>
>Sorry mate, no subpatch in my version of the .help file. I would
>really like to check it out so maybe you can send me yours.
you're right - that's odd......
i just looked at their download page, and in the latetst download the
help patch is not the same - mine is more recent......
don't know (i don't remember having received it as something "special")
wwhatever - here it is and i HOPE it is OK with Dan Trueman !!!
kasper
On Mar/09/2006/, at 13/58, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
> wwhatever - here it is and i HOPE it is OK with Dan Trueman !!!
thanks!
B.
________________________
http://loibner.cc
About a win port of the beta-5, of percolate, i get the sources today
and looked at the code : it will be a struggle with my Eclipse to build
c AND c++ together in the same project. Not for next week, i'm affraid,
but i'll try, for sure.
best
f.e
[9 March 2006 01:13, Roald Beaudoux]
>you might like to read these answers from Dan trueman to my >recent questions about munger~ too:
I do,
with the hope of a possible return of this new Features version, who unexpectedly(?) disappears from the site
Best Regards,
Eryck Abecassis
Does anyone else get the error " too many notes amadeus "
this is funny, first of all,
but secondly, I imagine it means that munger has run out of voices but I really, in my case, can't see why.
How does munger handle polyphony? This error seems to crash my patch but I can't seem to get it to stop....
Thanks,
Kevin
Which munger are you using? The percolate one or the new munger1~?
Ico
> -----Original Message-----
> From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com]
> On Behalf Of kevin
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:25 AM
> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Cannot set grain duration in munger~'s oneshot mode
>
>
> Does anyone else get the error " too many notes amadeus "
>
> this is funny, first of all,
> but secondly, I imagine it means that munger has run out of voices but I
> really, in my case, can't see why.
>
> How does munger handle polyphony? This error seems to crash my patch but I
> can't seem to get it to stop....
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
I am using the Percolate one.... there is another?
Yes,
Search the list for munger1~ object. It has a number of new features and bug
fixes. It is also a port using flext so it runs on all platforms (Pd and Max
on Windows, OSX, and Linux). You can download it from
http://ico.bukvic.net/Max/
Best wishes,
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Composition, Music Technology, CCTAD, CHCI
Virginia Tech
Dept. of Music - 0240
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
(540) 231-5034 (fax)
ico@vt.edu
http://www.music.vt.edu/people/faculty/bukvic/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com]
> On Behalf Of kevin
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:33 AM
> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: RE: Re: Cannot set grain duration in munger~'s
> oneshotmode
>
>
> I am using the Percolate one.... there is another?
Thanks a lot Ivica, this is a great update. So far looks like it is working fine
well, it does still give me the "too many notes amadeus" message when i connect a metronome to a note message in one shot mode. It happens even when i am firing grains every 500ms with a max of 30 voices (30 voices active) and a buffer size of 30seconds. my note message looks like
note 2 4 0.5 20 50 0.9 100 1
nothing too long...
Not sure why i get this error... I can't replicate it in the help file, but in my patch if i hook note messages up to a metro, it gives me the too many notes amadeus error
Can you please send me your patch and I'll look into it?
Many thanks!
Ico
> -----Original Message-----
> From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com]
> On Behalf Of kevin
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 12:52 PM
> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Cannot set grain duration in
> munger~'soneshotmode
>
>
> well, it does still give me the "too many notes amadeus" message when i
> connect a metronome to a note message in one shot mode. It happens even
> when i am firing grains every 500ms with a max of 30 voices (30 voices
> active) and a buffer size of 30seconds. my note message looks like
>
> note 2 4 0.5 20 50 0.9 100 1
>
> nothing too long...
>
> Not sure why i get this error... I can't replicate it in the help file,
> but in my patch if i hook note messages up to a metro, it gives me the too
> many notes amadeus error
Sure thing here is the patch. I found a work around by making sure that Munger1~ is not getting any messages unless the dac is on. This seems to fix the problem. If I don't have this... i get the amadeus error, and max usually crashes when I load this patcher.
I think it is normal to expect munger1~ to complain about too many notes
when the event cue is getting cluttered due to dac~ being off. That being
said, it should not crash, so we'll have to revisit that aspect of the
object. Many thanks for the feedback!
Best wishes,
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Composition, Music Technology, CCTAD, CHCI
Virginia Tech
Dept. of Music - 0240
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
(540) 231-5034 (fax)
ico@vt.edu
http://www.music.vt.edu/people/faculty/bukvic/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com]
> On Behalf Of kevin
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:18 PM
> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Cannot set grain duration
> inmunger~'soneshotmode
>
>
> Sure thing here is the patch. I found a work around by making sure that
> Munger1~ is not getting any messages unless the dac is on. This seems to
> fix the problem. If I don't have this... i get the amadeus error, and max
> usually crashes when I load this patcher.
>
> max v2;
> #N vpatcher 338 44 1150 795;
> #P origin -133 -9;
> #P button 192 426 15 0;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P window linecount 1;
> #P message 191 448 15 196618 1;
> #P newex 225 445 27 196618 f;
> #P newex 225 413 63 196618 r downbeat;
> #P button 292 529 15 0;
> #P number 193 282 35 10 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P flonum 425 306 35 10 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P comment 404 465 255 196618 density could just be prob of a multiply by
> zero;
> #P hidden newex 454 57 70 196618 loadmess 16;
> #P user rslider 362 97 175 58 16 1 0 0 0;
> #P objectname GrainRange;
> #P hidden message 362 77 46 196618 size $1;
> #P hidden newex 527 160 27 196618 + 1;
> #P hidden newex 362 160 27 196618 + 1;
> #P button 185 511 15 0;
> #P flonum 334 497 80 10 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P newex 334 468 44 196618 * 500.;
> #P hidden number 527 184 35 10 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0
> 0;
> #P hidden number 362 183 35 10 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0
> 0;
> #P toggle 156 458 15 0;
> #P newex 164 401 51 196618 loadbang;
> #P newex 185 474 70 196618 metro 1000;
> #P number 328 429 35 10 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P newex 334 389 67 196618 ranAB 1 16;
> #N comlet cycle len;
> #P hidden inlet 362 43 15 0;
> #N comlet 1subdiv (ms);
> #P inlet 257 58 15 0;
> #P hidden newex 645 664 55 196618 autopattr;
> #X prestore GrainRange 2 0 0 0;
> #X prestore GrainReturn 1 0 0.410714;
> #P objectname u171000109;
> #P user meter~ 555 97 578 155 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0 0 217
> 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
> #P user multiSlider 536 97 24 58 0. 2. 1 2937 47 0 0 2 0 0 0;
> #M frgb 0 0 0;
> #M brgb 255 255 255;
> #M rgb2 127 127 127;
> #M rgb3 0 0 0;
> #M rgb4 37 52 91;
> #M rgb5 74 105 182;
> #M rgb6 112 158 18;
> #M rgb7 149 211 110;
> #M rgb8 187 9 201;
> #M rgb9 224 62 37;
> #M rgb10 7 114 128;
> #P objectname GrainReturn;
> #P hidden newex 593 634 37 196618 *~ 0.;
> #P hidden newex 531 634 37 196618 *~ 0.;
> #P hidden outlet 593 667 15 0;
> #P hidden outlet 531 667 15 0;
> #N comlet SIG;
> #P inlet 165 61 15 0;
> #N vpatcher 360 234 1207 798;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P window linecount 0;
> #P newex 121 392 36 196618 print;
> #P newex 283 204 73 196618 ranAB -1. 1.;
> #P newex 336 354 63 196618 loadmess 0;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P newex 266 374 58 196617 gate;
> #B color 5;
> #P newex 266 338 54 196617 dspstate~;
> #B color 5;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P newex 687 95 30 196618 * 4.;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P message 103 207 47 196617 power 1;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P newex 616 76 63 196618 loadmess 1;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P message 67 236 73 196617 maxvoices 30;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P newex 687 125 51 196618 * 1000.;
> #P newex 687 53 62 196618 r mastBPS;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P flonum 687 155 56 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P window linecount 1;
> #P message 687 176 93 196617 delaylength_ms $1;
> #P button 358 301 15 0;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P window linecount 0;
> #P newex 435 204 80 196618 ranAB 0.3 0.7;
> #P newex 356 152 40 196618 t b f b;
> #P newex 346 250 136 196618 pack 0. 1. 0. 6. 0. 0. 0. 1.;
> #P newex 346 281 72 196618 prepend note;
> #P toggle 22 175 15 0;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P message 22 197 58 196617 oneshot $1;
> #P comment 345 321 306 196617 transp , gain , pan , attack , decay ,
> sustain level , release , direction;
> #P window linecount 1;
> #P message 116 172 88 196617 ambidirectional 1;
> #N comlet GrainVar in;
> #P inlet 356 37 15 0;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
> #P newex 67 80 51 196618 loadbang;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P message 136 146 50 196617 tempered;
> #P newex 248 409 378 196617 munger1~ 30000;
> #N comlet SIG;
> #P inlet 248 37 15 0;
> #N comlet AUDIO L;
> #P outlet 248 495 15 0;
> #N comlet AUDIO R;
> #P outlet 616 495 15 0;
> #P connect 5 0 10 0;
> #P connect 10 0 9 0;
> #P connect 5 0 20 0;
> #P connect 5 0 22 0;
> #P connect 5 0 7 0;
> #P connect 25 0 28 0;
> #P connect 5 0 4 0;
> #P connect 20 0 3 0;
> #P fasten 7 0 3 0 235 214;
> #P fasten 4 0 3 0 220 223;
> #P connect 2 0 3 0;
> #P connect 22 0 3 0;
> #P fasten 16 0 3 0 702 210 788 244 777 328 425 380;
> #P fasten 9 0 3 0 68 271;
> #P connect 25 0 3 0;
> #P connect 3 0 1 0;
> #P connect 26 0 25 0;
> #P connect 24 0 25 0;
> #P connect 13 0 27 0;
> #P connect 11 0 25 1;
> #P connect 27 0 12 0;
> #P connect 12 0 11 0;
> #P connect 6 0 13 0;
> #P connect 11 0 15 0;
> #P connect 14 0 12 2;
> #P connect 13 1 12 4;
> #P connect 13 2 14 0;
> #P connect 3 1 0 0;
> #P connect 18 0 23 0;
> #P connect 21 0 23 0;
> #P connect 23 0 19 0;
> #P connect 19 0 17 0;
> #P connect 17 0 16 0;
> #P pop;
> #P newobj 531 555 72 196618 p Grains;
> #P objectname "sub patch";
> #P window linecount 6;
> #P comment 157 598 229 196618 play a single grain of dur x with random
> attack , pan , gain. Max polyphony is 20 , but they should barely
> overlap since in this instance a new grain is fired once the previous one
> is done. However in this system there will be no rests;
> #P connect 15 0 16 0;
> #P connect 16 0 14 0;
> #P connect 33 0 14 0;
> #P connect 14 0 21 0;
> #P connect 34 0 33 0;
> #P connect 31 0 34 0;
> #P connect 31 0 32 0;
> #P connect 19 0 32 1;
> #P connect 32 0 14 1;
> #P connect 20 0 30 0;
> #P connect 12 0 13 0;
> #P fasten 21 0 12 0 150 498 142 389 231 383;
> #P connect 13 0 19 0;
> #P connect 19 0 20 0;
> #P hidden connect 11 0 24 0;
> #P hidden connect 26 0 24 0;
> #P hidden connect 24 0 25 0;
> #P hidden connect 25 0 22 0;
> #P hidden connect 22 0 17 0;
> #P hidden connect 17 0 12 1;
> #P fasten 29 0 19 1 246 379;
> #P fasten 10 0 19 1 262 355 302 424 302 455 373 455;
> #P fasten 28 0 19 1 420 371;
> #P hidden connect 18 0 12 2;
> #P hidden connect 25 1 23 0;
> #P hidden connect 23 0 18 0;
> #P fasten 2 0 1 0 22 288 80 546;
> #P hidden connect 1 0 5 0;
> #P hidden connect 5 0 3 0;
> #P hidden connect 5 0 8 0;
> #P hidden fasten 7 0 5 1 599 175 623 604;
> #P connect 20 0 1 1;
> #P hidden connect 1 1 6 0;
> #P hidden connect 6 0 4 0;
> #P hidden fasten 7 0 6 1 600 177 625 604;
> #P pop;
>
I still don't understand how the adsr works with munger~: I have the feeling that the total duration of the grain is obtained by adding the attack, decay and release values regardless of the grain size parameter ?
So there is no way to give the duration of the sustain ?
Benoit
Hello,
I use the 5 oct 2006 munger~.mxo because munger1~ is crashing often (I use Max 6).
oneshot is actually a feature of munger~.
Here is a patch demonstrating how to get sound in this mode.
Nicolas