FUZZ???
hi
a pretty informal question (at least not a technical one):
out of curiosity (and also personal needs!) i am quite curious to
know what people use when a Big, out-of-control, angry,
FUZZ/distortion etc etc is needed...
I am not asking about a little bit of overdrive, the "amp" or "tube"
simulation, but the Fuzz-as-instrument, the effect as sound itself,
almost (the software equivalent of such boxes as "ZVex fuzz facory",
"Coloursound tone bender", "Roland bee ba", "4ms NoiseSwash" or some
"E-H Big Muff")
could be max patches, but also other software solutions (such as
reaktor, csound, or just plug-ins)
what do you use when you want a powerful distortion??
thank you
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
Try using the degrade~ object and turning down the word size (bits) slider.
Rhys
I like this little bit of patch... the fader changes the density of
the cliping.
pa
Quote: Dr. Spankenstein wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 15:10
----------------------------------------------------
> Try using the degrade~ object and turning down the word size (bits) slider.
----------------------------------------------------
Actually, degrade~ won't do anything that lp.nn~ won't do (lp.nn~ gives you more control, for instance fractional bit-depth). But I think Kasper is aware of both objects;-)
Fuzz is a different effect. I once saw a description of an algorithm for fuzz, but it was about 20 years ago (seriously) and, although my memory is generally pretty good, the details now escape me. But maybe after a good night's sleep...
On Feb 14, 2008, at 5:35 AM, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
> (the software equivalent of such boxes as "ZVex fuzz facory",
> "Coloursound tone bender", "Roland bee ba", "4ms NoiseSwash" or some
> "E-H Big Muff")
I own an embarrassing percentage of the devices you list, and many
more besides. IMO, this is something that is not done as well in
software. There's something about a transister/diode combination
breaking a sweat that I've yet to see captured in software.
That said, OhmForce's Predatohm is pretty good, and can do some things
that hardware can't touch.
http://www.ohmforce.com/
-C
I to was going to recommend checking out OhmForce. They have a new
plugin (called Ohmicide - gotta love those names) that goes further
than Predatohm, and when I tried the demo, I though it sounded really
"sweet" :-)
David
On 14 Feb 2008, at 17:23, Chris Muir wrote:
>
> On Feb 14, 2008, at 5:35 AM, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
>> (the software equivalent of such boxes as "ZVex fuzz facory",
>> "Coloursound tone bender", "Roland bee ba", "4ms NoiseSwash" or
>> some "E-H Big Muff")
>
> I own an embarrassing percentage of the devices you list, and many
> more besides. IMO, this is something that is not done as well in
> software. There's something about a transister/diode combination
> breaking a sweat that I've yet to see captured in software.
>
> That said, OhmForce's Predatohm is pretty good, and can do some
> things that hardware can't touch.
> http://www.ohmforce.com/
>
> -C
>
>
>On Feb 14, 2008, at 5:35 AM, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
>>(the software equivalent of such boxes as "ZVex fuzz facory",
>>"Coloursound tone bender", "Roland bee ba", "4ms NoiseSwash" or
>>some "E-H Big Muff")
>
>I own an embarrassing percentage of the devices you list, and many
>more besides. IMO, this is something that is not done as well in
>software. There's something about a transister/diode combination
>breaking a sweat that I've yet to see captured in software.
>
>That said, OhmForce's Predatohm is pretty good, and can do some
>things that hardware can't touch.
>http://www.ohmforce.com/
>
OH!!
well, I own those stompboxes (and many more - some, not all, are on
my page at http://www.sleazeart.com/KTT_instruments.html ! _ I never
had a BeeBa (but played with one); I should also add the
Prescription OutBox to the list...)
yes, oh course one solution is to "include" a "real" fuzz-box in the
max circuit (dac~/adc~) which works really well..... sometimes (I had
great results with stevie Wishart's Black Big Muff !!!)
but I would like to be able to have something similar in software as
well...... (why??? hummm, just because - also because you can't
copy/paste a real big Muff !!!)
__as for Ohm Force - yes, they are among the best (and I am proud to
be one of their beta testers !!) Predatohm is good but Ohmicide
(their new toy!) is even better, more "out there". And I just made
tests with their "ohmyGod!" which is probably one of the very few
software plug-ins which I was able to play in auto-oscillation and
with no-input
("No-input plug-in" - I think i will start a new musical genre - this
one is far more "out" than no-input mixer or no-sample sampler, isn't
it?)
so yes, I am looking for this kind of (unknown to me) software
solution (the freeware "berrtill" plug-in is a good one !!)
many thanks
best
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
A few free vst/au options (for Mac):
Audio Damage:
- FuzzPlus 2.2
Soundhack freesound bundle:
- +chebyshev
- +decimate
Ohmforce:
- Fromage
Smart Electronix:
- Cyanide
There should be more to be found with some searching. These are the once I know of and I think FuzzPlus could be a very good (nice sounding, fast, efficient) quick fix for your fuzz needs.
Looking forward to seeing you perform on Sonic Acts in Amsterdam, Kasper. Are you going to make a Big Fuzz? :)
Regards,
Klaas-Jan
Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 05:35
----------------------------------------------------
>
> what do you use when you want a powerful distortion??
>
----------------------------------------------------
I start here:
mz
Quote: mzed wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 13:13
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 05:35
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > what do you use when you want a powerful distortion??
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I start here:
>
> http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/patch/4180
>
> mz
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
I've heard about the hyperbolic tan function being awesome for distortion. Can someone kindly explain how this works, or point me in the direction of tanh distortion examples?
Thanks
Rhys
mzed provide a link earlier in this thread.
>this plugin might be of interest:
>
>http://www.d16.pl/index.php?menu=183
yes
tried it and it actually has an interesting sound BUT works really
badly in maxmsp (on mac, PPC at least) - one channel works, the
second does not, the "pots" are close-to impossible to manipulate on
the interface (they do not follow the pointer!!)
I have send them an email
thanks
kasper
hi Roald
thank you
when I have dcblock~, where can you find el.killdc~
and where is rb.scale~ ??
(none of them seems to be on maxobjects.com)
many thanks
kasper
PS - just to answer my own question, if anyone is interested
in the max world
atan~ and tanh~ are good starting points for all kind of variations on fuzz
Plug-ins
_Ohm Force Ohmicide is very interesting, their predatohm is also good
- and the quadFrohmage lets you build good distorted tones (also
check out their Ohmygod, which was given as a freeware with some
magazine - SOS, or something like that)
_Guitar Rig is quite ok, especially the "tube" amps - their
fuzz-boxes - even very clos to teh real thing when used with a
bass/guitar, are not very interesting in the "digital" world (my test
is to input a white noise generator into a fuzz - if it makes it
angrier, it means it is worth considering!)
_I did not found (yet?) anything very convincing in reaktor (which is
strange.... it mighht be my own limited experience of reaktor...)
_Trash, by iZotope is really good!
_the small freewares, fuzz+ and fuzzPlus are quite good (and freewares, yes)
_freeware - Berttill is just great (and the youtube video of what it
was modeled from is super!!)
that's is for the moment
all the best
k
>
>My DistoKitchen patch might interest you. Have a look at solutions
>4, 5, 6 and 12. You will need either el.killdc~ or dcblock~
>external. Comments and insights about other techniques would be
>welcome.
>
>Atchao,
>
>Roald Bauoux
>
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
> where can you find el.killdc~
>
el.killdc~ is part of Eric Lyon's PotPourri.
regards,
kjg
> > where can you find el.killdc~
>>
>
>el.killdc~ is part of Eric Lyon's PotPourri.
>
in my "eric lyon" 3rd party folder I have only killdc~, not el.killdc~
(but I am still on maxmsp 4.5.7.... that might be the reason)
thanks
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 13:30
----------------------------------------------------
> > > where can you find el.killdc~
> >>
> >
> >el.killdc~ is part of Eric Lyon's PotPourri.
> >
>
>
> in my "eric lyon" 3rd party folder I have only killdc~, not el.killdc~
>
At some point he gave all externals the prefix "el."
If you have an older version, that explains.
I guess you could just create a copy of the killdc~ file and name it el.killdc. Function or layout of inputs and outputs probably hasn't changed.
Regards,
kjg
Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
> _I did not found (yet?) anything very convincing in reaktor (which is
> strange.... it mighht be my own limited experience of reaktor...)
Hi. In reaktor, I used a lot the BanaanElectrique (distortion part only)
and GCD-Disto.
I found the old arcDev vst very good also (freeware but pc only).
Best.
Izotope Trash has some impressive snarl to it, check out the demo.
Anthony
Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 03:22
----------------------------------------------------
>
> when I have dcblock~, where can you find el.killdc~
>
FWIW, biquad~ can be an fine dc-blocking filter. Try:
[biquad~ 1. -1. 0. -0.9997 0.]
mz
hi fe!!
>
>
>Another kind of Guitar Rig stuff to consider :
>- Ampeg SVX (bass preamp and stuff)
>- Amplitube (idem for guitar)
>Both from Ik Multimedia
never tried the svx but amplitube (1, not amplitube 2 which I never
tried) i sOk as a "light" coloration of guitar (BASS) but is lacking
the ........... FUZZ factor (i think)
>
>My favorite digital plugin for crunch/disto/fuzz is unfortunately
>Cubase SX/Nuendo specific. It's called Quadrafuzz and it's over
>powerfull. Does multiband compression /distorsion. Years ago, there
>was a version of it you could use out of its host (part of the
>Steinberg Millenium Edition ?)
quadra fuzz is/was great and it comes from an old schematic given in
a VERY old issue of guitar Player magazine - it was designed (the
fuzz, not the mag) by craig anderton
I had a friend who build the actual fuzz ( I mean the hardware
version) and it was great and then I found an extremly cheap copy ot
the plug-in - running OS9 (mac - yeah, you don't know)
they never ported in to osX - except as part of cubase, but
impossible to run outside of it
best
kasper
The Quadrafuzz still lives in hardware form - you can
get it as a kit from Paia - see
http://www.paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6720K
I have no connection with Paia, honest, but their
kits are really well made and simple to put together,
even if you're not a regular circuit bender.
Which reminds me, talking of nice - or rather nasty -
fuzz boxes, of one I built years ago made by a British
company, now sadly defunct, by the name of Phonsonics.
I still have the schematic somewhere, along with that
of another Phonosonics kit, that does LFO VCA/VCF
effects, which I was pleased to recognize amongst
Throbbing Gristle's Chris Carter's favorite toys on
his website some time ago (though iirc, no credit was
given to Phonosonics).
The two worked really well in tandem - I
affectionately christened the combo, 'The Dirt Box'.
I've been meaning to dig it out of the attic and see
if it still works. Anyway, I'll scan and upload those
schematics in case anyone's interested - the fuzz box
was capable of creating some truly filthy sounds,
cheers
Roger
>
> quadra fuzz is/was great and it comes from an old
> schematic given in
> a VERY old issue of guitar Player magazine - it was
> designed (the
> fuzz, not the mag) by craig anderton
>
> I had a friend who build the actual fuzz ( I mean
> the hardware
> version) and it was great and then I found an
> extremly cheap copy ot
> the plug-in - running OS9 (mac - yeah, you don't
> know)
>
> they never ported in to osX - except as part of
> cubase, but
> impossible to run outside of it
>
> best
>
> kasper
>
Oh, right, phase modulation.
There are some examples of using lp.scampf~ for phase distortion in Litter Power Extras. Might be of interest to those with Litter Pro.
I actually used this in Overnight Sensation. I think it's a little different from classic fuzz, but still nice.
Non-linear waveshaping is also a good source of distortion/fuzz and
is amplitude dependent. For those interested, check out [lookup~] and
MSP tutorial 12 for examples.
----
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe
Home
SFIFEM
Atrium Sound Space
OVOS
CMP
As promised, I've uploaded the schematics for the PE/Phonsonics 'Guitar Overdrive Unit'; it's at www.wildfrontear.co.uk/Fuzz.zip
Complete with coffee stains, solder burns etc. but I've resisted the temptation to clean them up or over-compress them to keep them readable,
cheers
Roger
PS. LFO VCA/VCF schematic to follow...
Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Mon, 25 February 2008 16:10
----------------------------------------------------
> As promised, I've uploaded the schematics for the PE/Phonsonics 'Guitar Overdrive Unit'; it's at www.wildfrontear.co.uk/Fuzz.zip
thank you very much for taking the time to scan and upload this.
it looks like an interesting read!
regards,
kjg
Hi !
I am using a distorsion on my (acoustic)cello (among other effects).
As the basic principle of this effect is a non-linear transformation ; instead of using only the clip~ or degrade~ objects, I programed a totaly non linear lookup table replacing the actual samples.
I am generating the lookup table either with some linear segments or with a polynom. To avoid DC output, every generated curve output 0 for 0 input. You may also shape your own curve "by hand".
You can also filter the output with a single-pole lowpass for a better sound and/or amplify the input before shaping it to increase the distorsion effect.
Here is the patch. It is to be included in a bpatcher.
Please let me know what you're thinking of it !
Cheers
BenCello
hi,
here's a fuzz-destroy attempt: http://www.pan-etc.net/nav/dev/dev-
plugin.htm
cheers.
--
elt@altern.org
http://pan-etc.net
--
i use a turborat as an ovverdrive- and a Boss ds-2 as a fuzz.
if not a real amp.
and an old swiss-made tube radio with an input and a speaker-out. never found a digital distortion, which could beat analog fuzz/overdrive. quadrafuzz as an os9 plugin sounded bareable, though, but not really impressive.
A very old (but nice) thread this!
Anyone got any new fuzz techniques?
i went to musicdsp.org long ago and found a code listed as 'parabolic shaper' somewhere, can't find it now, perhaps its under the waveshaper heading these days, and i'm pretty sure it was by Bram de Jong, but anyways i ended up tweaking it quite a bit to create this "pseudo parabolic shaper" ends up creating fuzz a bit too readily, haha ...i added some saturation at the end recently from what i learned in another thread from Graham and Gregory to tame the output more, but still..keep your volume low at first when you try it:
There's one in the stkr waveshaping pack called jongShaper.... nothing parabolic mentioned, but it sounds nice.
I don't know if it is technically at all related to fuzz but I'm getting some interesting results pushing some of those waveshapers really hard and modulating them with noise~ through scale~ then into a bandpass
Haha - just saw you posted a patch that I missed... sounds nice!
The stereo effect is especially good...
ah, glad you found it and like :)
ya, not sure if it's technically related to fuzz(still not quite sure i understand what fuzz is, i just think certain distortions definitely sound so 'fuzzy' they emphasize the distortion itself more than the original source)... someday i should snoop some of the algorithms the 'airwindows' guy has come up with(he's on Lines, too) - https://www.airwindows.com/ ..i bet he'd have some amazing techniques to do what Chris Muir wrote above for "something about a transister/diode combination breaking a sweat"
[https://github.com/airwindows/airwindows/tree/master/plugins/MacVST]