groove~ tempo change issue

    Sep 08 2011 | 2:11 pm
    I'm having an issue with groove~ and tempo change. When the loop start point is greater than 0. ms I get clicks when I change the tempo on the transport. This happens even though looping is turned off. Is there an explanation for this and a way around it?
    Any help would be much appreciated!
    Here's an example:

    • Sep 08 2011 | 3:41 pm
      1) try startloop
      2) poly~
      3) attack for amp envelope
    • Sep 08 2011 | 4:10 pm
      Thanks for the reply.
      I want to be able to start the sample from the beginning with the loop section occurring later, so startloop won't work.
      The same thing happens within poly~ and attack envelope doesn't help.
      Also, this phenomenon occurs only with tempo change in the transport. If I change the metro speed independent of the transport there is no issue.
      This seems like something inherent to the relationship between groove~ and transport?
    • Sep 09 2011 | 2:53 pm
      Hi sample rate may remove clicks.
      the amp fall fast will generate clicks .so i think you need envelop for every clip
    • Sep 09 2011 | 2:59 pm
      clicks are a central problem to msp, you won´t get around sth like a mini envelope.
    • Sep 09 2011 | 3:44 pm
      Hi rham I think the problem lies deeper than a 'relationship between transport and groove'; clicks of this nature aren't really a central problem with MSP, triggering audio events using control signals IS.
      I scanned your patch, and your original post and it's still not clear to me what you're trying to achieve with this patch: with looping turned off, and manually varying the 'startloop' inlet, you will be triggering the sample at that location - this WILL create clicks, but they are masked by your [function] envelope, the [metro]/[bang] combination is not a good choice for accurate and reliable tempo-synced triggering/looping; I recommend you check out [chucker~], [stutter~] and [techno~]. I believe there's also something hiding in the /examples folder too.
      Ensure your envelope begins and ends at zero.
      If you could give us some pseudo code describing exactly what you expect from your patch then you'll get loads of pointers.
    • Sep 09 2011 | 3:58 pm
      I don't think this is an envelope-related issue. There is something strange in the relationship between groove~ and the transport.
      Try the patch and you'll see what I mean: - set the transport tempo - load a sample into the buffer (preferably a pitched note) - set some steps in the sequence - set the loop min on groove~ to something greater than 0. (30. ms, for example) - leave loop off (0) - start the transport (space bar) and try changing the transport tempo
      For some reason when the tempo is changed, groove~ jumps to the loop min point even though looping is turned off and the sample is being triggered from 0. This causes the clicking. If you set the loop min point to 0. the problem disappears. Of course you can use startloop but that eliminates the option of having a loop starting later in the sample.
      Seems strange to me, but I'm quite sure that this is happening.
    • Sep 09 2011 | 4:31 pm
      Hi Brendan,
      Thanks for checking in. Sorry, I didn't see your reply before my last post.
      The patch is just a very stripped down illustration of the problem. The goal is to have a very simple sample player that can be driven from a step sequencer - for playing, say, synth samples. Manually changing the loopstart point is not a goal, but changing the transport tempo is. But there may be situations - sustaining a note, for example - where the loop will start later in the sample. Really basic stuff.
      If you follow the steps above hopefully it will be clear what I'm referring to.
      If the transport tempo is not changed this works perfectly for what I'm trying to do, but tempo change is a must.
    • Sep 09 2011 | 5:12 pm
      Hi rham thanks, this is much clearer! I'm not aware of any 'issue' between groove and transport - it would have popped up on this forum before - but there ARE some idiosyncracies with [groove~] behaviour; see here for example:
      Here's how to get 'looping sampler' behaviour from [groove~], without using the (startloop) message
      EDIT improved version, but still very basic
      Hopefully, you'll be able to plug this in to your own sequencer; if the clicks continue when changing tempo, then I'll be proved wrong :)
    • Sep 09 2011 | 7:39 pm
      Hi again, Brendan.
      Yes, perhaps "issues" is a bit too pejorative!
      I tried your patch with the same results. What seems most idiosyncratic to me is that this jumping to the loopstart point occurs even when looping is off.
      Here's a hopefully clear illustration - simple instructions on the left of the patch:
      Anyway, it's interesting. At least to me.
      Maybe people don't use groove~ in this way?
      Thanks a lot for your help.